Is cyber-sex, internet porn, chat ect...cheating?

Yikes, I gotta catch up... Yes, Cav knows what I think! (And said it a lot better than I could too).

Some folks explore, discover, share whatever they can, just as they are.
Some folks hunt, take, manipulate, and need things, shaping people into what they want.
Other folks are shades in between, whether consciously or unconsciously.
Still others are off living life, not really operating within the giving/taking, inviting/controlling framework.

I don't mean to put any one style down, except to show that open relationships have excellent points to recommend them. To ask "Is it cheating?" implies a universal rule, and that is upsetting and insulting to me.

As a relationship develops I wouldn't want people to automatically assume one rule or another just because "that's the way it's done". Any rule should be discussed and voluntarily agreed on, as the need arises and becomes important, when there's a true reason for it. Then a unique solution can be found to suit the unique relationship. Things would happen according to their own nature.

With such a variety of people in our society, anything goes.
My own preference is conscious awareness rather than numb habit,
monogamy rather than complicated inter-relationships,
appreciation rather than requirements,
sharing rather than using,
and knowing that someone wants, works, and is dedicated to being
in a relationship mostly because their passion and nature chooses it freely,
without neediness or entrapment.



Porn (just like fantasies, hopes and dreams, meditation, creative story-writing, and window-shopping) can be a very educational thing that leads to self-awareness. Stop when you find something interesting. Why is it attractive? What qualities are in the thoughts? What mood? What emotion? What memories? What specific desires? Is there: neediness, helplessness, ambition, greed, anger, gentleness, wonder, safety, opportunity, pain, a grounded sense of belonging and home? Different qualities are blatantly embedded within our sexuality, every person and every fantasy is *very* different.

Our strongest fantasies reveal a lot about what we're dealing with in our lives, and who we are at this moment.



It's hard enough for a man to find someone willing to communicate emotionally with them. Would we now ask they don't even communicate with themselves -- by not exploring their fantasies?

If someone claims that pornography objectifies women, then perhaps objectification is the theme going on with that person. I know far more men objectified for their wallets than women objectified for their breasts. If that's how someone looks at pornography, perhaps that's how they look. Personally, I look for the smiles. That's what gets me really going! We need more smiles in the world, to fuel the possibilities.
Every good thing started out as a dream.



Cheating? I'd rather be honest and have people pursue whatever is important to them, whatever way they think is best. That would never be cheating, regardless of what behavior results.

it all boils down to this: It is or isn't depending on what you and your partner decide but you MUST speak with them about it or well they may concider something that you don't cheating.

And that's the long and the short of it. Good points in both of those last posts.

couldn't have said it better myself!!! communication is something that most couples base their relationships on, it is very helpful to just ask what the other is thinking and not just assume. although i am not the expert and my relationships have problems, and i have communicaton issues. nobodys perfect

masturbating to porn
I dont know how anyone can think that masturbating to porn in a marriage isnt cheating. I have always maintained that cheating doesnt always have to be physical. When my husband keeps looking at porn and masturbates, I feel hurt and rejected and feel like I dont compare. He is imagining himself being with these other women, when in reality he could be with me. I dont know, maybe I wouldnt mind so much if he made ME feel like a real woman, you know show me all the attention that I need... but he doesnt. Infact when I question him on it, he says its a wayof letting off steam. I dont understand that.... why not talk to me? why not let me hold him? why not make love to me? is an image of a naked woman more comforting to him than I am?
I would like to hear more perspectives on this matter. I dont know if Im over reacting, but I feel like I am being cheated on.

I hear ya, tinan.

Re: masturbating to porn


whooy, tinan, you ask some diificult questions.

One first way to look at it, is - saying this as a guy - <ahem> - i mean, maturbation is something we've done since we were, like, 13. It's a hard habit to break, just because someone else joins us in our life. This may sound silly, but its almost like peeing, or eating, or sleeping. Just happens, automatically - it's just, this need. You'd have to consciously repress the urge, time and again.

Your key question seems to be - "why not make love to me, instead?" But that's something totally different! Making love is an entirely different experience - it means something else - it feels different - it fulfills wholly different desires and needs. Making love takes devoting all your care, attention, tenderness, love, for the full intensity of the time it lasts ... perhaps not something you're up to, at all, when all you feel like is ... making yourself come. Even a "quickie" is a completely different experience ... Masturbation is much more lazy - and you dont want to bother your woman with sex if you're not up to giving her what you'd have to give when you make love ...

So there's a few potential answers already ;-).

If I can ask you a err, personal question back - do you ever masturbate? I understand from your post that, if you do, you do not use any porn or anything of the like. But if you close your eyes, and touch yourself just because you feel like it, do you never ever picture anyone else, any kind of scene or scenario or image, that does not (exclusively) include your man? What is the difference, exactly? One could say porn is for the imagination-impaired - people who need a visual crutch for their fantasy, say. And that's OK - we can't all be makers of our own universes. I'm sure not always up to making up all the images myself, either.

I may be jumping to conclusions, but the key sentence in your post seems, "maybe I wouldnt mind so much if he made ME feel like a real woman, you know show me all the attention that I need... but he doesnt." That really - sucks, for lack of a better word, I'm sorry. And I understand that, if he doesnt show you this sexual love, this desire, seeing him waste it on some anonymous picture, chafes. But really, the two things could have little to do with each other, see above. If what hurts you is that he doesnt show you, give you, this sexual loving, then that's the problem, period. Why doesnt he? What would you like him to do? Why does he feel he can't? If you have the chance to talk about that, together ...

You mention talking about this with him, but perhaps only in terms of - I dont like you masturbating, why do you do it? That could be up the wrong alley - he'll start defending why he does it, you'll react to what he says, while all the time what you want to say is something else, altogether: why don't you show me the kind of sexual affection I miss? If he is willing to listen, and you are willing to honestly tell him that you would like to feel, like you think he is imagining making these women feel, too - if he is able to honestly say what stops him ... there could be any number of reasons. If the images that rouse him are starkly sexual, and he views you as someone who wouldnt ever ... et cetera, then that might be the problem - but there could be many, many other explanations, some rather easy to work on once you start talking, some potentially more ... troubling.

Good luck ... hope I've helped. Tend to be way too long-winded! ;-)

I tend to agree with tinan. Part of my reasoning is Christian ethics ("if you even look at a woman lustfully, you have committed adultery in your heart"); part of it is knowing how my wife would feel if I was more turned on by a computer image than by her. Think how much more meaningful an exclusive relationship is if your spouse knows that they are the only person you ever want to see naked.

masturbation to porn
I am trying to understand, nimh. I know what youre saying makes sense, as far as it being a need, but you see this problem goes a lot deeper. When we are together it takes EXTREMELY long for my husband to ...um... get gratification. Sometimes not at all. I invariably end up feeling like he is not enjoying the process at all, and that it is soley for my benefit, which again leads to me feeling like he's trying so hard and not getting very much out of it.The biggest turn on for any woman is knowing that she turns her husband/partner on. I think that his regular masturbation has made him almost immune or rather unresponsive to the "real thing" so to speak. This is what I meant when I said that he doesnt make ME feel like a woman... oh he goes through the motions and everything, but how would anyone feel if they couldnt satisfy their partner? I personally feel like a failure.
I have tried to talk to him about it, and no I didnt just say why are you doing this or I dont like the fact that youre doing this, I tried to understand why he felt the need to. Like I said before, all he said was that it was a way of letting off steam. My husband doesnt talk to me anymore... and why should he? he can get his release looking at naked women.
And also, how much is normal? my husband does it every day or every other day... we are intimate maybe 7 days out of the month... oh and we've only been married a year.

PS. you asked if I satisfied myself, well I do... now, because I feel betrayed by him. I feel if he can think about other women and fantasize about being with them, then why should I think only of him?

I think you are talking about two separate issues here. Not that sex and talking in a relationship are necessarily different, but there are two problems you seem to have identified. I think nimh spoke to this quite well.

I agree.

Dan Savage answers a lot of questions along these lines in his advice columns, and one thing that could be an issue is that your husband has become so used to his own method that it is more difficult for him to be satisfied in other ways. That is again its own issue, separate from porn per se. If that is the situation, it becomes him teaching you the ways that work for him, and then gradually branching out.

Dan Savage is acerbic but does have good advice... you might think of writing to him. [email protected]

thanks, I think I will write to him.... its a bit nerve wracking though, considering how he seems to make fun of everyone who writes in... and in my case I am very upset about the whole thing, so I dont know how Id react!

Yeah, that's true. "Acerbic" may be an understatement.

Between the one-liners, though, he really does have good advice and/ or resources.

I thought of him because I imagined him answering your question, but as nimh and ehBeth have pointed out, there are a few different levels to your question, some of them purely sex-related, and some more general. You might find counselling beneficial to figure out what is what and address
some core issues.

Good luck!

Haha, found this on the side pannel!!

"Spector is the #1 selling software that allows you to find out if your husband, wife or significant other is cheating online, or using the Internet to meet others for real-world sex.
Once installed on your computer (takes less than 5 minutes), Spector records EVERYTHING he/she does online, including:

• ALL E-mails
(including AOL E-mail, Hotmail,
Yahoo Mail, etc...)
• ALL Chat Conversations
• ALL Instant Messages
• ALL Web Sites Visited
• ALL Keystrokes Typed"

THought it seemed appropriate

there are many programs like that some as simple as a keylogger others take screen shots. Ok now for the subject at hand. I myself don't masturbate much but thats because my wife is always there for me, if your confused on why he does it maybe you could tell him how you feel and ask him if he would take your feelings into concideration before he does it. The way you word things may cause a fight but sometimes a fight isn't a bad thing because in the end its all out in the open and you come to a understanding. Maybe talk about what you could do to make your sex life more interesting...just maybe that would draw him into bed intead of looking at porn. I'm not saying at all that your sex life is not good or anything along those lines im just giving you some ideas hoping maybe it helps

You know what you guys? Im hearing everything you are all saying and Im trying to understand and broaden my views and ways of thinking, but just right now, I had to clear up after him - the internet histories and caches and laundering clothes stained with lubricant and semen- and Im just disgusted. I dont want to have to understand. Im just pissed and fed up. I starting to feel like I dont even WANT to be intimate with him anymore.

Yeah, that makes sense.

To start with, why are YOU cleaning? Make him do it.

Then, talk to the guy. This is serious. Not so much as whether he is doing something wrong -- that could go a few ways. But that you are really, really bothered. When you're that upset, you need to get some things figured out.

Yikes tinan....I'm just catching up with this thread. It sounds like the problems do indeed go deeper than just masturbation. My wife and I have sex, and occasionally masturbate as well, no biggie. Neither of us are into porn really. Your situation sounds grim, and it sounds like he is taking serious advantage of you. I can't begin to think of why he would treat you this way, but it is clearly his issue. Is he an addictive personality-type in other areas of his life?

God...I dont know if he's an addictive personality type or anything...all I know is, he DOES NOT communicate. When I suggested to him that we might need counselling, he told me that I should go on my own... seeing as the root of our problem is that I need to talk and and his problem is that he doesnt want to.
He knows how upset I get by this stuff... but I dont think he really cares. I mean Ive tried to get involved with it, tried to watch it with him, ... but I cant do it anymore... not when WE havent communicated verbally or physically in months ourselves.
When he leaves his dirty laundry on the floor for me to pick up after he's done though, and when there are still links left in the history that the kids can see when they log on to the computer, thats when Ive had enough. (the children are mine from a previous marriage, we've only been married a year)
I ask myself if I was doing this as much as he was and if I knew it upset him... I would SO not do it... or at least make an effort to stop or at the very least tell him that I would try and that I was sorry.... I certainly wouldnt throw it in his face like he keeps doing to me.
Its sad that this is the case, but Im seriously thinking that this marriage is ending... I dont want to have to be with someone who not only doesnt find me physically attractive, but also who cares so little for my feelings.