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Why does everyone HATE the police?

 
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2007 06:54 pm
Oh, I forgot.

Quote:


Of course cops watch each other's backs, as well as watching out for each other's families.
The same goes for firefighters.
These people that we expect to save us when our lives are in danger aren't dealing with computer geeks and burger flippers all day. They're dealing with the worst sector of society. They see things that would give the average person nightmares.


Here's my response to this: so f*cking what?

Nobody forced them to become a cop and nobody makes them continue being cops.

If they don't want to deal with the worst sectors of society, they can quit.

If they don't want to quit, they can deal with the worst sectors of society and follow the law. They don't get exempted from the law because of the choices they have made in life. I don't know where you get the idea that they did.

I bet you do think that the families of cops should get special treatment. Wonder if you would feel the same way if....

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2007 07:12 pm
Why do they hate cops?

Quote:
Officer Joseph Corr was shot and killed while pursuing suspected jewel thieves, and police in two states continue to search for one of the suspects. Thirty-year-old officer Joseph Corr, a six-year veteran of the New Hartford Town Police Department, was shot and killed. Police have charged 46-year-old John Healy of the Bronx with second-degree murder. Healy pleaded not guilty today and is being held without bail.

A second suspect, identified by police as 36-year-old Walter Richardson, remains at large and is believed to have fled to the Philadelphia area. He's described as armed and considered "extremely dangerous." Richardson faces a charge of first-degree murder for killing an officer in the line of duty. Oneida County District Attorney Michael Arcuri said Healy and Richardson both have "sizable" criminal histories. New Hartford police said Healy and Richardson may be part of a larger operation now being investigated by the FBI that has robbed jewelry stores along the east coast.

Officer Corr had served with the New Hartford Police Department for six years. He is survived by his wife, infant daughter, and parents.
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Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2007 08:53 pm
I believe in any sized city, if there were no police, civilization would end quickly. There would be feral gangs controlling neighborhoods, worse than anything anyone could imagine, I believe.

The police are a thin protection against a tsunami of lawlessness. And still in any city sirens are heard on an ongoing basis; not ambulances or fire trucks, but police. Or perhaps just flashing lights, because of what they're headed towards.

It may not be of concern to young males that feel they would not be targets of many crimes, but the female population likes having police as part of any city/town/village. That I am pretty sure of.
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tinygiraffe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2007 10:44 pm
Willows wrote:
Of course cops watch each other's backs, as well as watching out for each other's families.
The same goes for firefighters.


that they do, the difference is simple. when a rogue firefighter gets around to starting fires, the other firemen back away and let society devour him. there are some damned fine firemen. now that's a brave, selfless job.

Willows wrote:
giraffe - what was so morally repugnant about me telling cyclops that the next time a mounted cop tells him to move, he should move?
I would think anyone with any sense can figure that out.


oh there's nothing "wrong" with that, ms. patacci. obviously in the world your head lives in, might makes right.

and finn is correct, obviously we should lower our expectations.
0 Replies
 
tinygiraffe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2007 10:52 pm
Foofie wrote:
I believe in any sized city, if there were no police, civilization would end quickly.


then you believe that civilization consists EXCLUSIVELY of people shooting, threatening, and arresting anyone that doesn't fully comply with the whims of politicians. if that's what it takes for civilization to continue, then obviously, almost the entire population doesn't want civilization to continue, and it's actaully being imposed on them. i would disagree, partially, but only after thinking about that really, really hard.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2007 11:04 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Willows wrote:
I find people that don't have the balls to be cops and who just sit at a computer whining all day to be morally repugnant.


Oh, mm-hmm. Nice to see your morals are well-adjusted; beating people is okay, complaining about beating people, not okay.

You're certainly getting off to a great start here at A2K.

You think it's a correct thing, that cops allow each other to break the law - and do nothing about it?

Cycloptichorn


Willows - You're getting off to a rip snorting great start here. Don't mind Cyclo.

Cyclo and his fellow cop-haters want us all to focus on the same point their tunnel vision points them towards.

Without a doubt there are cops who let their power go to their pointed heads. I've run across a few over my life. F'rinstance: As an 18 year old long haired hippie, I and my two friends (brothers) were playing golf on a public course. Contrary to all the hi-falutin rules of golf we three were playing with only two bags of clubs. Since we were relatively good at the game, our handicap wasn't slowing anyone down, and yet while on the 11th hole, while putting out, the a-hole behind us hit a (really great) shot and put his ball right amidst ours. He wasn't so good, of course, that he intentionally missed hitting us. He could have easily beaned one of us.

My best bud, now a scratch golfer on the Country Club circuit, turned and flipped the a-hole the Bird. Next thing we know, a-hole and babe in tow (impressing a woman had something to do with this?) are motoring up to the Green in their cart. A-hole storms from the cart to the Green, flashing a gold (Dick) badge and yelling "Spread eagle mother fu**ers!"

Little did Detective A-Hole know but one of my surrogate Irish family was the chief of homicide in our LI county. When the elder brother tried to tell Dick A-Hole that it was all cool and that he was the brother of a constabulary big whig, Dick A smacked him in the face and threw him to the ground. By now the jackass had drawn a gun from his fat ankled sock. As is typical in these sort of events, time slowed to a crawl. I looked to the right and saw the younger brother, (my best bud) coming upon Dick A-Hole with a putter raised above his head.

Fortunately, my screaming "Whoa! Stop!" had a mollifying effect. Dick A-Hole paused as did younger brother Best Bud.

Suddenly Detective A-Orifice saw the light and apologized profusely. Meanwhile enraged Best Bud screamed for his badge number.

End of story: Gold Badged Anal Orifice slinked away and we played on.

I still wonder whether or not A-Hole came up short because of the Perps connections with the elite police or that he realized what an A-Hole he was being.

Regardless, this was a cop who should not have been a cop. However, I am now in my 50's, and he is the only rogue cop I can cite. To some extent this is because I tend to abide by The Law and don't attract belligerent cops as I did as a hippie.

Within my family there are numerous NYC cops who have jobbed the system and gotten a permanent disability pension through questionable means. These "rogue" cops piss me off as much as the ultra-violent ones, and I will never be considered a big time booster for the police.

Nevertheless, the upstanding cops are worth ten fold of any other public oriented servant. And, they are not in the minority.

I've had my personal problems with cops, but if I find myself in a bad neighborhood with menacing thugs approaching, I want a cop, not an environmentalist, ACLU lawyer et al, approaching.

In the long run, all this talk leads to the conclusion that we, as individual citizens, need to be armed in a manner that we can rely upon ourselves and no one else.

The folks in this forum can argue all they want about the chaos of armed citizens, but when an unarmed citizen loses all that he or she is, are they willing to accept this as collateral damage?

The credible anti-war argument is what political goal is equal to or superior to the extinguishment of all an individual soldier can or will be?

Where the anti-war protesters find themselves on the side of politics rather than truth is when it becomes clear that they care very little for the individual lives of those who protect our freedoms at home or abroad.

The Cyclos of the world are not prepared to grant these poor bastards one inch of slack. Typical Liberal: "We are the Voice of the Common Folk except for those among the Common Folk who won't vote Democratic!"

Another thread on A2K is related to the offensive declaration of Rush Limbaugh that American soldiers who do not support the war in Iraq are "phony soldiers."

Jump all over Limbaugh if you will, but for half a second contemplate how far from your own opinions he may be.

Cops are phony protectors of the people!

Cops are incapable of 100% virtuosity and therefore are scum!

A cop gave me a ticket for speeding one day and so all of them are Nazi thugs!

Hate the miscreants who rape 93 year old women, who sell addictive drugs to 4th graders, who beat the sh*t out of people who are too different for them, who drive like an Indy racer on your public highway.

Hate the police who reign them in and not the miscreants, and be all that a Liberal can be.
0 Replies
 
tinygiraffe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2007 11:06 pm
who will watch the snorters?
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Willows - You're getting off to a rip snorting great start here.


i think "snorting" is an excellent word for what both of you are doing, actually. you don't seem to mind criminals at all, as long as they're wearing badges.
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Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2007 11:29 pm
Re: who will watch the snorters?
tinygiraffe wrote:
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Willows - You're getting off to a rip snorting great start here.


i think "snorting" is an excellent word for what both of you are doing, actually. you don't seem to mind criminals at all, as long as they're wearing badges.


What utter tripe.

Badge wearers are all criminals?

Take your tiny giraffe head out of your large giraffe ass.
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tinygiraffe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2007 11:34 pm
Quote:
Badge wearers are all criminals?


where did i say, or even imply that?

all i meant was, when they happen to be criminals, not only do you not care, but if we care, you imply we're whiners.

double standards unless you LOVE crime.

you only have a problem with non-police doing it.
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Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2007 11:44 pm
tinygiraffe wrote:
Quote:
Badge wearers are all criminals?


where did i say, or even imply that?

all i meant was, when they happen to be criminals, not only do you not care, but if we care, you imply we're whiners.

double standards unless you LOVE crime.

you only have a problem with non-police doing it.


Oh please Tiny.
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tinygiraffe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2007 11:52 pm
okay then, let's try it from the other end: what do -you- think should happen to cops that are brought up on charges of brutality, if found to be guilty?

allowed to go back to work and try harder next time? is it reasonable to fire them, or is that too harsh for a criminal with a badge?
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Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Sep, 2007 12:35 am
tinygiraffe wrote:
okay then, let's try it from the other end: what do -you- think should happen to cops that are brought up on charges of brutality, if found to be guilty?

allowed to go back to work and try harder next time? is it reasonable to fire them, or is that too harsh for a criminal with a badge?


A ridiculous question.

Cops who break the law should pay the same penalty as anyone else who breaks the same law.

Where I think we differ is in that you and your confreres would impose upon cops a greater duty than their fellow citizens.

If you agree that cops should receive compensation that is far and away above that of their fellow citizens, I might agree with you. But they do not.

I am happy to give the benefit of the doubt to the person who, ostensibly, is protecting law abiding citizens rather than to the accused.

If a cop proves to be a bad egg...throw the book at him. If a cop honestly screws up in his profession of risking his life for ours, I'm all for giving him every break possible.

You cop-haters: How often do you go out on Neighborhood Patrol and sacrifice to preserve the security of your community?

Obviously you can answer however you please in this forum, but you know whether or not you are being honest.

In dire straits, I want a cop, not an ACLU Lawyer at my side.

Guess what? The Bad Guys will be with us for hundreds of years yet to come. If you feel you can neutralize them through gibber-jab, please try. The worse that will happen is The Bad Guys will reduce the number of idiots in our country.
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tinygiraffe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Sep, 2007 12:55 am
well then you would appear to be more reasonable than your fascist-humping counterpart.

extreme measures are great philosophical amusements, but don't assume everyone criticizing the police is out to get rid of them. i'm sure there's some kind of balance that can struck, although i may be wrong. calling all critics "whiners" isn't going to leave society duly checked, however.

all good cops have earned some great reward. i'm not saying they all receive it, hell, some of the best people on earth don't. but you and i both know that's a fact of life. good cops don't do it for the pensions or the prestige. if you want to reward good cops, by any reasonable means, i'll support it. i already support firemen in any way i can. some cops are just as good as they are.

but i'll keep my concerns as long as i feel i have good reason to, and besides that, what i do with my ass is my own business.
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aperson
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Sep, 2007 04:00 am
Wo! Lot of posts!

I'm feeling tired so I'll keep it short.

Today the newspaper was absolutely splattered with stuff on the incident. It turns out that the policeman had been awarded an award (crappy phrase, I know) for saving another police officer's life against a man armed with a sawn off shotgun!

There were protesters in the street today where the man was shot. Twice in the Press, people commented on how the tazer would have been so useful, but no, tazers are inhumane.

Some very good arguments in the newspaper today supporting the police, but I can't be bothered quoting from them. Let's just say out of the three opinionated arguments in the newspaper (excluding a three liner - don't know why they put it in there - which was pro-police), two were pro-police and one was neutral. They were all well written and intelligent. Why weren't there any anti-police ones? Because no one has a proper, logic based argument against the police! Everything is based on emotion. What would the policeman have done? Stand by while the pee-driven, hammer wielding maniac smashed him to bits? (The maniac was also armed with a hunting knife, by the way.)
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Willows
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Sep, 2007 06:13 am
tinygiraffe wrote:
well then you would appear to be more reasonable than your fascist-humping counterpart.

extreme measures are great philosophical amusements, but don't assume everyone criticizing the police is out to get rid of them. i'm sure there's some kind of balance that can struck, although i may be wrong. calling all critics "whiners" isn't going to leave society duly checked, however.

all good cops have earned some great reward. i'm not saying they all receive it, hell, some of the best people on earth don't. but you and i both know that's a fact of life. good cops don't do it for the pensions or the prestige. if you want to reward good cops, by any reasonable means, i'll support it. i already support firemen in any way i can. some cops are just as good as they are.

but i'll keep my concerns as long as i feel i have good reason to, and besides that, what i do with my ass is my own business.



you haven't a clue as to what you're talking about

maybe you're used to the mean zoo keepers at the tiny zoo

<snicker>
0 Replies
 
kuvasz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Sep, 2007 12:39 pm
know any law enforcement folks?

usually a group of nice folks, but not too smart and usually they have this power complex streak which drives them to be A Number 1 a$$holes once they put on a badge.

whenever i talk to some of them, like my step dad, mother, brother, or two cousins they always proclaim their spirit for helping others, but we all know it is that they personally enjoy the power trip of carrying guns and their ability to control others, and not a desire to help mankind.

but the worst problem is their "code," where thet don't turn on bad cops and bend the law for the sake of convictions.

so from personal experience i don't trust them a bit, the drug dealers i know have higher ethics than the cops i know.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Sep, 2007 03:43 pm
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
First of all, welcome to A2K Willows!

Obviously everyone doesn't hate cops.

You get what you pay for. If you want the Dali Lama or a Supreme Court Justice to literally risk his or her life everyday, you better be prepared to spend a whole lot more on the salaries of hundreds of thousands of cops in this country than you are spending today.

It's really easy to criticize cops from the safety of your computer room. Are some of them a-holes? Yes. Are some of them corrupt? Yes. Do some of them never face anything more dangerous than a Cream Donut? Yes. The same, of course, can be said about Environmentalists, Katrina Relief Workers, ACLU Lawyers, Gender Studies Profs, and any other profession Liberals may tend to admire.

The difference is that NONE of these other "professions" require as a normal aspect of the job to deal with the absolute dregs of society and risk their lives.

In general, America's police force, like America, stacks up damned well when compared to it's peers.



I guess it would help to pay more and hire the more qualified. However, FBI agents are well paid and trained, and lately I have been reading about considerable bad behavior on their part. This includes one who was a very effective spy for the USSR. And, of course, we saw their failures in connection with preventing 9/11.
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Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Sep, 2007 06:12 pm
tinygiraffe wrote:
Foofie wrote:
I believe in any sized city, if there were no police, civilization would end quickly.


then you believe that civilization consists EXCLUSIVELY of people shooting, threatening, and arresting anyone that doesn't fully comply with the whims of politicians. if that's what it takes for civilization to continue, then obviously, almost the entire population doesn't want civilization to continue, and it's actaully being imposed on them. i would disagree, partially, but only after thinking about that really, really hard.


You know you assigned a new context for my statement. My context was ordinary citizens would find their safety jeopardized by lawlessness that would prevail without an active police department. You don't have to prove every point wrong to feel you have a valid position.
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tinygiraffe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Sep, 2007 03:14 am
Foofie wrote:
tinygiraffe wrote:
Foofie wrote:
I believe in any sized city, if there were no police, civilization would end quickly.


then you believe that civilization consists EXCLUSIVELY of people shooting, threatening, and arresting anyone that doesn't fully comply with the whims of politicians. if that's what it takes for civilization to continue, then obviously, almost the entire population doesn't want civilization to continue, and it's actaully being imposed on them. i would disagree, partially, but only after thinking about that really, really hard.


You know you assigned a new context for my statement. My context was ordinary citizens would find their safety jeopardized by lawlessness that would prevail without an active police department.


i put your argument in the context of its full implications, it thought doing so made a good point.


Quote:
You don't have to prove every point wrong to feel you have a valid position.


but in the case of your points, it's probably for the best.
0 Replies
 
Halfback
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Sep, 2007 10:04 pm
Amidst some of the hype posted on this subject, we have to remember that in any segment of the population the standard distribution curve appears. Cops? A certain percentage will be bad cops of one type or another. A certain percentage will be exceptional cops. The rest fall in between the two extremes. The standard description for the "bad" end of any distribution curve is "the ten percenters."

Most cops do their job well, under ever stronger duress and restrictions as time goes by. Moreover, they are faced with a general population that increasingly tend to believe that they have the God given right to do exactly as they please without regards to general peace and tranquility and the rights of others. In short, a lack of discipline. Liberty does not guarantee lisence.

I spent twenty years of my life in the Marines. Three years of that in places where it was perfectly OK for people to try to kill me. It was expected and one could "prepare" for the eventuality of the attempt. For the police it is entirely different. They go out every day in the effort to maintain social order never knowing if this will be the day that it turns into a combat zone. They never know if the little punk giving them lip will suddenly turn violent. They never know if the routine traffic stop will turn into a shoot out. They never know if a "domestic violence" call is going to turn against the answering officer. They never know.

Is it any wonder, then, that many of them tend to view the general population with a somewhat jaundiced eye?

Yeah, virtually any one of us can cite anecdotes where a cop was wrong, or exceeded his authority, the popular press is extremely fond of citing each and every instance of what they consider police wrongdoing. It's not a bad idea, really, it keeps those ten-percenter cops from getting out of hand.

What is generally not reported with the same enthusiasm are the ninety percenters who do their job, day to day, in the effort to minimize the effects of disruptive members of the population on the rest of us. My hat is always off to them. I make it a point to greet them when I see them. I enguage them in non-police/political discussion whenever the opportunity presents itself. I generally support their actions vis-a-vis those who consider police fascists or a threat to their personalized version of liberty which is really lisence to act without regards to the rest of societal norms, mores and laws.

Their job is to protect the population from the societal deviates, enforce the law and to maintain the day to day tranquility so that the rest of us can go about our business in peace and freedom. This is not easy.

Halfback
0 Replies
 
 

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