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Why does everyone HATE the police?

 
 
Willows
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2007 11:02 am
Do you have any idea how many police officers there are in any given large city?
thousands

Of course out of that amount a few will have some other agenda.
But for the most part a cop signs up to do the right thing. Same with the prosecutors.

Anyone that makes a blanket statement that cops are bad, can only be construed as an idiot and not even worthy of discussion.


Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2007 11:05 am
Willows wrote:
Do you have any idea how many police officers there are in any given large city?
thousands

Of course out of that amount a few will have some other agenda.
But for the most part a cop signs up to do the right thing. Same with the prosecutors.

Anyone that makes a blanket statement that cops are bad, can only be construed as an idiot and not even worthy of discussion.


Rolling Eyes


Who made a blanket statement that cops are bad?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Willows
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2007 11:33 am
That's how I'm reading your statements.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2007 11:37 am
Willows wrote:
That's how I'm reading your statements.


You are not actually reading them then, or you would notice lines like:

Quote:

I'm sure there are good cops out there; like I said, I've met a few. But there are also bad ones.


Blanket statements usually are along the lines of 'all cops are corrupt.' You will note that I said nothing of the sort.

Look. Your snuggle-bunny; while a hard-working and upstanding person, who wouldn't actually do such a thing, could, in our modern police environment, reasonably:

Pull someone over. Harass them. Charge them with a crime b/c he was having a bad day. Ticket or take the person to jail. Potentially beat on them for talking back.

And there's nothing the person in question could do about it.

Now, your particular cop probably would never do something like that. But others can, others do, it's been going on a long time, and you really ought to understand that this power disparity is what leads to people's fear and mistrust of cops.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Willows
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2007 11:43 am
Cyclops - My 'snuggle-bunny' Rolling Eyes is actually the first one called to the scene when a dead body turns up. He sees the ugliest side of crime.
However, I've been around cops all my life, and every one of them is or was a good police officer and does his job well.

I'm not saying they were all great guys that I got along with personally, but I would trust them to do the right thing morally and ethically.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2007 11:49 am
Willows wrote:
Cyclops - My 'snuggle-bunny' Rolling Eyes is actually the first one called to the scene when a dead body turns up. He sees the ugliest side of crime.
However, I've been around cops all my life, and every one of them is or was a good police officer and does his job well.

I'm not saying they were all great guys that I got along with personally, but I would trust them to do the right thing morally and ethically.


You grew up in a different place then I did; I've seen cops beat the **** out of people who weren't fighting back. Had them harass me personally for no reason, other then the fact that they could. Seen cops on horseback hitting folks with batons as 'crowd control.' I've been shot with pepper spray, b/c I was standing next to two guys who were fighting and it was easier to do that then to actually figure out what was going on.

On the other hand, I've had cops let me go when I've done stuff that was clearly wrong; or choose not to hassle me, when they could; or show up to assist when I needed it. It isn't as if they are all bad. But they are a group who have been granted powers far beyond that of an ordinary citizen, who have to continually rake through the lowest parts of society, and many of them end up resenting the people they are supposed to protect, if not downright despising them.

You are ignoring the fact that many cops get caught each and every day not doing the right thing. And far more don't get caught, or nothing happens when they do.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Willows
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2007 12:00 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:


.... I've seen cops beat the **** out of people who weren't fighting back. Had them harass me personally for no reason, other then the fact that they could. Seen cops on horseback hitting folks with batons as 'crowd control.' I've been shot with pepper spray, b/c I was standing next to two guys who were fighting and it was easier to do that then to actually figure out what was going on.

On the other hand, I've had cops let me go when I've done stuff that was clearly wrong; or choose not to hassle me, when they could; or show up to assist when I needed it......

You are ignoring the fact that many cops get caught each and every day not doing the right thing. And far more don't get caught, or nothing happens when they do.

Cycloptichorn



What it sounds like to me is that you've put yourself in situations where there was a pretty fair chance you'd get hit with a baton, or sprayed with pepper spray. But, those balance out with the times you were actually involved and did something wrong, and you were let go.

You are very selective in placing blame.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2007 12:05 pm
Willows wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:


.... I've seen cops beat the **** out of people who weren't fighting back. Had them harass me personally for no reason, other then the fact that they could. Seen cops on horseback hitting folks with batons as 'crowd control.' I've been shot with pepper spray, b/c I was standing next to two guys who were fighting and it was easier to do that then to actually figure out what was going on.

On the other hand, I've had cops let me go when I've done stuff that was clearly wrong; or choose not to hassle me, when they could; or show up to assist when I needed it......

You are ignoring the fact that many cops get caught each and every day not doing the right thing. And far more don't get caught, or nothing happens when they do.

Cycloptichorn



What it sounds like to me is that you've put yourself in situations where there was a pretty fair chance you'd get hit with a baton, or sprayed with pepper spray. But, those balance out with the times you were actually involved and did something wrong, you were let go.

You are very selective in placing blame.


Oh, I am selective. I blame those cops who are corrupt for being corrupt.

There's no situation - ever - where you should be pepper sprayed or hit with a baton, when you haven't broken the law. I've never been hit with a baton (though I'm sure it would hurt), but I know that in Austin, during a Halloween celebration in 1999, when the cops decided it was time to close the place down, they gave a warning over a loudspeaker and then just marched the horses forward; people who didn't move fast enough were pushed out of the way or smacked with a baton. It was brutal and ugly, and who was punished for it? The 17 or 18 people who got charged with 'impeding the police,' including the girl right next to me who got smacked on the head for not moving fast enough.

I think you're having a difficult time being objective. You sound like an apologist for incorrect police actions; as I said before, there is no situation in which there's a 'fair chance' that I would get assaulted by a police officer, when I had committed no crime whatsoever.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Willows
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2007 12:08 pm
I'll bet the next time a mounted cop tells you to move, you'll move.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2007 12:10 pm
Willows wrote:
I'll bet the next time a mounted cop tells you to move, you'll move.


You don't seem to be interested in anything but defending the policeman's prerogative to beat on whoever they feel like; I don't think that there's much point in continuing a discussion with someone who supports the beating of innocent people.

I find your last post to be morally repugnant, and I guarantee that if it were you who got smacked in the head with a stick, you wouldn't be singing the same song; you'd be bleeding on the ground...

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
tinygiraffe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2007 12:46 pm
Willows wrote:
I'll bet the next time a mounted cop tells you to move, you'll move.


originally, i was going to make a little joke about willows' "bias." only now i can see it's too offensive to joke about.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2007 01:14 pm
Here's a point which wasn't brought up earlier; Cops watch each others' backs, and the families of each other as well. You see, you aren't supposed to write a ticket to another cop or a member of his family - or else you're a dick. Think I'm making it up?

http://www.copswritingcops.com/dotm/oct2006/index.html

In Houston, I knew a few people on the force; one night while at a party they told me how you can't get a ticket for a DUI if you're a cop in Houston. All ya have to do is flash the 'brass pass' and you're golden, and if any other cop doesn't honor it, the rest of them will force him to do so.

As I said earlier - legalized gang members is what many of them are, and the ones who aren't, how much rocking of the boat do you think they do?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2007 03:13 pm
Why do people hate police?

Quote:
Johnston got off one shot, the bullet missing her target and hitting a porch roof. The three narcotics officers answered with 39 bullets.

Five or six bullets hit the terrified woman. Authorities never figured out who fired the fatal bullet, the one that hit Johnston in the chest. Some pieces of the other bullets -- friendly fire -- hit Junnier and two other cops.

The officers handcuffed the mortally wounded woman and searched the house.

There was no Sam.

There were no drugs.

There were no cameras that the officers had claimed was the reason for the no-knock warrant.

Just Johnston, handcuffed and bleeding on her living room floor.

That is when the officers took it to another level. Three baggies of marijuana were retrieved from the trunk of the car and planted in Johnston's basement. The rest of the pot from the trunk was dropped down a sewage drain and disappeared.

The three began getting their stories straight.


http://www.reason.com/blog/show/119929.html

And they nearly got away with it. And this sort of thing happens every day.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2007 03:44 pm
I might mention that the police are not in their jobs to perform charitable works. Most love the excitement, the uniform, power, etc., and they will tell you that they are never bored. Few of us can say we are never bored at work.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2007 04:45 pm
First of all, welcome to A2K Willows!

Obviously everyone doesn't hate cops.

You get what you pay for. If you want the Dali Lama or a Supreme Court Justice to literally risk his or her life everyday, you better be prepared to spend a whole lot more on the salaries of hundreds of thousands of cops in this country than you are spending today.

It's really easy to criticize cops from the safety of your computer room. Are some of them a-holes? Yes. Are some of them corrupt? Yes. Do some of them never face anything more dangerous than a Cream Donut? Yes. The same, of course, can be said about Environmentalists, Katrina Relief Workers, ACLU Lawyers, Gender Studies Profs, and any other profession Liberals may tend to admire.

The difference is that NONE of these other "professions" require as a normal aspect of the job to deal with the absolute dregs of society and risk their lives.

In general, America's police force, like America, stacks up damned well when compared to it's peers.
0 Replies
 
Jim
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2007 04:52 pm
I haven't been back in the States long enough yet to have had any dealings with the Police. Let's hope it stays that way.

In my travelling, though, I've grown a very intense hatred for the Security Personnel at U.S. Airports.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2007 05:43 pm
Why does everyone 'hate' the police?

Quote:
Chicago's finest under fire for brutality

* Story Highlights
* Lawyer: From '02-'04, only 18 of 10,000 complaints got "meaningful" results
* One victim says officer attacked when she refused to sign blank incident report
* Victim's lawyer: Chicago Police Dept. "doesn't do a good job of policing itself"
* Chicago police refused CNN's interview requests

From Randi Kaye and Ismael Estrada
CNN

CHICAGO, Illinois (CNN) -- Robin Petrovic, a college English teacher, was out dancing at a popular Chicago nightclub, the "Funky Buddha Lounge," when she got into an altercation with the bouncer and called police for help.

But according to Petrovic, the officer who showed up -- James Chevas, a 12-year veteran -- turned on her when she refused to sign a blank incident report and tried to write down his badge number.

"He picked me up and threw me face down into the ground. And since my hands were handcuffed behind my back, I couldn't break my fall at all, so I just landed on my face," she told CNN.

Petrovic is one of thousands of ordinary people who every year accuse Chicago police of abuse. Few complaints result in disciplinary action.

"The Chicago Police Department doesn't do a good job of policing itself," Jon Loevy, Petrovic's attorney, said. "For the small minority of police officers, who are inclined to violence for whatever reason and abuses, there is no check, there is no deterrence, because the city does not investigate and punish police abuses."


Between 2002 and 2004, for example, more than 10,000 complaints -- many of them involving brutality and assault -- were filed against Chicago police officers.

Yet only 18 of them resulted in any meaningful disciplinary action, according to Craig Futterman, a lawyer who uncovered these statistics while researching a client's claim.

Futterman's client, Diane Bond, sued the city of Chicago and a handful of officers, accusing them of beating and sexually abusing her.

"[The officer] took me in the bathroom, locked the door, had me unfasten my bra, then he had me shake my bra, he had me pull my pants down stick my hand in my panties and do like this while he looked on," Bond said.

The city settled Bond's case for $150,000, but never admitted any wrongdoing. The officers denied ever meeting her. None of them was reprimanded. In fact, two have been promoted.

For years, community activists have accused the Office of Professional Standards -- the investigative unit within the Chicago Police Department that examines brutality complaints -- of poor oversight.

In July, Chicago Mayor Richard Daley appointed Ilana Rosenzweig to run the office and also took direct control of it.

In an interview with CNN, Daley said Chicago is not unique in its struggle against police brutality.

"There is police brutality throughout the country. It's not just an exception to Chicago, and we take appropriate steps to thoroughly investigate it," Daley said.

Daley, meanwhile, won a temporary court order to keep the names of the alleged worst offenders secret.

"Because it's only [an] investigation, it's appropriate and you should not name them publicly," Daley told CNN. "Because they are out there doing their job, there's complaints and there will be complaints."

After her run-in with Chevas outside the Funky Buddha Lounge, Petrovic filed a complaint with the Office of Professional Standards, claiming extensive injuries.

"I had two black eyes. One of my ears was completely black and blue," she told CNN. "My face was swollen. I was bruised under my chin. I had bruising on my arms and my legs, lacerations all over my back, and bruising in my genital area."

Chevas denied Petrovic's claims and said she attacked him. Petrovic was arrested that night and charged with aggravated battery, but the charges were later dropped.

In his 12 years with the Chicago Police Department, Chevas had never been disciplined, despite nearly 50 brutality complaints against him, according to Petrovic's lawyer.

Chevas wound up resigning from the force after being caught on tape using credit cards stolen from a suspect in police custody. He was sentenced to 30 months probation.


Six months after filing her complaint with the standards office, Petrovic received a letter saying the office had conducted a "thorough investigation" and determined her complaint was "unfounded." Now, Petrovic is suing Chevas and the city of Chicago over the incident.

"In a properly functioning police department, there would be more of a system of discipline, more of a system of punishment, so that an officer would know that if someone did something wrong someone would actually care," Loevy said.

CNN's Jason White contributed to this report.

Find this article at:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/09/27/police.complaints/index.html


The good cops don't do **** to take care of the bad ones; it's the 'us v. them' mentality which has penetrated our nation's police forces.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Willows
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2007 06:36 pm
Thank you Finn

Of course cops watch each other's backs, as well as watching out for each other's families.
The same goes for firefighters.
These people that we expect to save us when our lives are in danger aren't dealing with computer geeks and burger flippers all day. They're dealing with the worst sector of society. They see things that would give the average person nightmares.

giraffe - what was so morally repugnant about me telling cyclops that the next time a mounted cop tells him to move, he should move?
I would think anyone with any sense can figure that out.

Evidently cyclops thinks that the cops should first sort out who are the bad guys and who are the good guys just standing near the bad guys.
If you don't want to get sprayed with pepper spray, then get your ass outta Dodge when the trouble starts.

This ain't Mayberry, it's real life.
0 Replies
 
Willows
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2007 06:43 pm
I find people that don't have the balls to be cops and who just sit at a computer whining all day to be morally repugnant.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2007 06:47 pm
Willows wrote:
I find people that don't have the balls to be cops and who just sit at a computer whining all day to be morally repugnant.


Oh, mm-hmm. Nice to see your morals are well-adjusted; beating people is okay, complaining about beating people, not okay.

You're certainly getting off to a great start here at A2K.

You think it's a correct thing, that cops allow each other to break the law - and do nothing about it?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
 

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