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NYC's Gay High School

 
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jul, 2003 06:37 pm
this article http://www.glsen.org/binary-data/GLSEN_ARTICLES/pdf_file/714.pdf has some good references, with stats from the Centre for Disease Control, Gallup etc. It's in PDF so I can't pull a quote.
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jul, 2003 06:41 pm
An interesting link..... this is the CDC's stats for all suicide deaths from the year 2000.

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/research/suifact.cfm

Suicide outnumbered homicides (16,765) by 5 to 3
73% of all suicide deaths are white males
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jul, 2003 06:46 pm
ehBeth
Absolutely not a typo. Don't you think that gay people have stresses and physiological problems in coping that straights do not. Where do you think the disparity in suicide statistics comes from? Being different from the norm is difficult to deal with.
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jul, 2003 06:48 pm
Can you be more specific and name a physiological problem that a gay teen might face?
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Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jul, 2003 06:51 pm
AU--
In my area, we have a school for Behavior Management problem students. When a kid gets in trouble, this is their parent's last ditch effort to keep them from permanent expulsion. The school is a Godsend for kids, who have Oppositional Defiance Disorder, ADHD not reactive to meds, and a host of other problems. If we don't try to keep these kids in school, prospects for their future is very bleak--and they'll probably end up committing crimes and eating up our dollars in prison. (I added that for interests of the community in keeping them in school.)

These schools are everywhere. The Milk school is just skewed toward keeping gay kids in school. Why discriminate due to the source of the problem?
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jul, 2003 06:52 pm
littlek
Being different.
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jul, 2003 06:52 pm
I'm absolutely on agreement in regard to the additional stressors. It's the point of physiology that has me puzzled.

from the Merriam-Webster online (had to check that i understood the definition - English as a 3rd language has been known to trip me up before)

Main Entry: phys·i·ol·o·gy
Pronunciation: "fi-zE-'ä-l&-jE
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin physiologia natural science, from Greek, from physi- + -logia -logy
Date: 1597
1 : a branch of biology that deals with the functions and activities of life or of living matter (as organs, tissues, or cells) and of the physical and chemical phenomena involved -- compare ANATOMY
2 : the organic processes and phenomena of an organism or any of its parts or of a particular bodily process
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Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jul, 2003 06:54 pm
And, now to piss everybody off. Surprised

I think gay people, generally speaking, are more likely to have psychological problems than the general public.

I know people aren't supposed to say this, but I bet my boobs it's true, based on years of working with mentally ill and gay people.
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jul, 2003 06:56 pm
from http://www.focusas.com/Suicide.html

a reference to :http://www.qrd.org/qrd/www/youth/tremblay/
(this article went to research in this area back to 1930)

which stated in conclusion :
Quote:
Homosexually active gay and bisexual young adult males are over-represented in the male youth attempted suicide problem, and the same would apply for gay, lesbian, and bisexual youth of colour. An over-representation of these youth is also predicted in the suicide problem. It has been demonstrated that gay and bisexual male youth, who form about 10% of the male population, are about 6-times more at risk for suicide attempts than heterosexual youth, and would account for about 40%, maybe 50%, of male youth suicide attempters.
These males, along with heterosexual males who were sexually abused also form about 90% of the young adult male suicide attempters. Therefore, suicidologists must begin asking and answering an important question: Why have most studies of youth suicide problems not been concerned with identifying sexual orientation, and child sexual abuse in their research work? Is this how truly scientific work should be done? Is it acceptable for suicidologists to have generally avoided doing anything to understand and help gay, lesbian, and bisexual youth despite the taboo nature of their sexuality? Was it ethical for mental health professionals until recently to have deemed all gay and lesbian people to be mentally disordered, and to have behaved accordingly? Has it been ethical, given the facts of the case, for suicidologists to have generally ignored GLB issues? Why did this happen?
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blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jul, 2003 07:03 pm
I'll call you on those boobs. let's see 'em. Shocked Very Happy
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jul, 2003 07:03 pm
Why aren't you supposed to say that, sofia?

Being beaten up/ abused/ attacked, whether gay or not - I wouldn't be surprised if the research showed that could lead to psychological problems for some people. I don't think it's a one size fits all rule, but I'm sure there's some component there. I don't think young gay males are suicidal because they're young gay males - I think it's a response to the reaction they get from some people.

Now, I go way off on the hyper-sensitive side on this topic. Setanta has learned that. Don't make fun of my gay friends, don't make fun of any gay people - I won't respond in a very friendly way.


ok - slight digression, or digression of some size. This is interesting for anyone who cares for any teenagers >>> http://www.focusas.com/Suicide.html
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jul, 2003 07:07 pm
hmmmmm, i think that is a subscription link

i think it's worth the few minutes to register :

it starts here - concludes with a lot of useful references

Quote:
This page is dedicated to the memory of Todd Pulliam.

Teen Suicide

by Richard O'Connor, Ph.D.

In the past 25 years, while the general incidence of suicide has decreased, the rate for those between 15 and 24 has tripled. It is generally considered to be the second or third most common cause of death among adolescents, even though it is seriously underreported.

No one has advanced a good theory explaining why teens are taking their own lives in greater numbers, but it's important for everyone to be aware of the problem.

A recent article by Jane Brody in The New York Times summarized research describing the major risk factors of suicide among young people:

Depression

Depression is often not recognized. In younger children and in adolescent boys, it may seem that the child is simply angry or sullen.

If this lasts more than a week or so with no relief, and if there are other signs of depression -- changes in appetite, activity level, sleep pattern; loss of interest in activities that normally give pleasure; social withdrawal; thoughts of death or punishment -- it should be taken seriously.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jul, 2003 07:19 pm
Scrat wrote:
what's next; a separate school for wimps, nerds and geeks? They also tend to be preyed upon at school, and it seems logical that they would fare better in a setting where they weren't constantly getting their asses kicked. Does that justify the expense of setting up a separate school for them?


Heh. I think Thomas already noted it, but in many countries over here high schools are by "level", so the geeks already tend to get into the higher-level ones, where there's more of their kind. And I can tell you that was a liberation! I went to the regular primary school around the corner, and then to a high school that was both Montessori and gymnasium/atheneum-level, and oh, life became so much easier. No longer the odd one out. Well, kinda ;-).

But yeh, you were right in pointing out that that's just a pleasant side-effect, of course - the level-based schools werent introduced for the reason of protecting geeky kids. (And Lord knows there's still enough gymnasium bullies, too).

Its interesting that here it was the social-democrats (the political left, thus), thats all the time argued that such, to quote Fishin' "seperating people into groups when we're supposed to be working towards making it one big homogenous society" was bad. Result is that most schools now encomapss different levels, but the children in the school are still taight in separate, level-specific classes.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jul, 2003 07:25 pm
WOW, theres a lot of new posts on this thread! I must not have renewed the page before I started writing! Anyway, this is the next bit of post that I had written - but perhaps these questions've already come up and been answered, then!

---

Anyways. I had a few questions, wonder if y'all can clear some up for me:

- Are students alllowed to go to a public school of their own choice, in or outside their own neighbourhood? (Here they are, depending on the schools' waiting lists). Wasnt that what the whole vouchers fracas is about?

- I'm asking cause Anastasia said, no. But if not, how's this work, then - how can the GLBT kids who need a safe haven get into this school? Do their parents have to move to the neighbourhood its located in?

- Is the GLBT harassment cross-the-board, cross-country? I had kinda expected GLB kids (dunno about the T, though ;-) ) wouldnt have much to fear anymore in a, say, Manhattan or San Fransisco school, is that too idealistic?

I'm asking cause otherwise, it seems to me that, with the school being in NY and all, the very kids who would actually need such a safe haven school most have the smallest chance of getting to use it ... ? (Stasia & I were joking, they'd probably need it more in Idaho - but there a GLB school would probably be torched, huh <wink>)

- How would enrollment take place? Here you have to register your kid on the waiting list of the school you would like him to attend, I think - years in advance, actually.

- Ehmm ... That was it, I think.

Oh yeah, is it really true that theres no separate classes for brighter, less bright high school kids in the US? Like, every 15-year old goes into the same class? Sounds like something a socialist would love <g>, but how does that work? Do kids get lots of self-study assignments and so on, so they can work ahead of their peers? How else are they kept from underchallenged boredom etc?

I know the different-level classes sound a bit elitist, but i must admit I think I had a lot more, like, peer encouragement in studying, and so on, than there would have been in a one-size-fits-all class ... but then the opposite might hold true for the lower-level classes.

One practical advantage to the levels-system is that every student who graduated from the highest level class here automatically is eligible for (any public) university. But I'm diiiiiiiiiiigressing - surry ;-).
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jul, 2003 07:39 pm
littlek
I just took another look and realized why you asked. Yes it was a typo. I meant psychological. My error sometimes one reads what he expects to see. When I answered you the first time I cut and pasted the word. I always seem to have a problem spelling psychological. Again mea culpa
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littlek
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jul, 2003 07:46 pm
It was ehBeth who first pointed it out! But, the correction makes much more sense.
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jul, 2003 08:17 pm
Thanks for looking at that again, au. It seemed so, well, unlike you.

Nimh, I obviously can't speak for the U.S., but I can tell you that in the province of Canada that I live in, high school classes are divided into levels. Students can register at the level 2/3/4/5 and 6 levels. Levels 2 and 3 are for students who are in what would once have been called the vocational track - that is - auto repair, hair dressing, day care assistant, cafeteria worker - with some academics. They are 2 and 3 year programs, with some academic component, and are focussed on getting people into the workforce fairly rapidly. Level 4 is for students who plan to go to college - slightly more academic in focus - this is where a lot of the technical colleges get their students from. It used to be a 4 or 5 year program. Now, levels 4, 5 and 6 are all 4 year programs. Levels 5 and 6 are for students headed to University - very academic, and when you get to level 6 - extraordinarily competitive. Students in levels 5 and 6 are encouraged to take courses at university.
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jul, 2003 08:45 pm
nimh wrote:
- Are students alllowed to go to a public school of their own choice, in or outside their own neighbourhood? (Here they are, depending on the schools' waiting lists). Wasnt that what the whole vouchers fracas is about?


That could probably be answered best with a big "it depends!" lol How's that for waffling? Very Happy

Quote:
- Is the GLBT harassment cross-the-board, cross-country? I had kinda expected GLB kids (dunno about the T, though ;-) ) wouldnt have much to fear anymore in a, say, Manhattan or San Fransisco school, is that too idealistic?

I'm asking cause otherwise, it seems to me that, with the school being in NY and all, the very kids who would actually need such a safe haven school most have the smallest chance of getting to use it ... ? (Stasia & I were joking, they'd probably need it more in Idaho - but there a GLB school would probably be torched, huh <wink>)


According to the link Soz provided way back earlier in this thread it sems the studies say about 30% of GLBT's suffer some harrasment nationally. (There is another study on that same site that said that overall, 33% of all students suffer bullying/harrassment nationally so I'm not sure exactly what the numbers really mean in either study..)

Quote:
Oh yeah, is it really true that theres no separate classes for brighter, less bright high school kids in the US? Like, every 15-year old goes into the same class? Sounds like something a socialist would love <g>, but how does that work? Do kids get lots of self-study assignments and so on, so they can work ahead of their peers? How else are they kept from underchallenged boredom etc?


All the schools I've ever dealt with split the kids up by "Levels" or "Tracks". You could have 2 kids both taking Freshman HS math but a "Track 1" student might get through the entire book or even into a 2nd book while a "Track 4" student might only get half-way through the 1st book by the end of the year. The brighter student would probably get directed toward taking harder math classes (i.e. Algebra, Geometry, Geometry, Calculus, etc..) while thr slower student may stay in lower level basic math classes. But some kids might be "Track 1" in math and "Track 4" in language or Science or vice-versa.

On your other questions... Umm.. I dunno. Wink
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jul, 2003 09:17 pm
Good answers already on your questions, nimh, here's my take:

Quote:
- Are students alllowed to go to a public school of their own choice, in or outside their own neighbourhood? (Here they are, depending on the schools' waiting lists). Wasnt that what the whole vouchers fracas is about?


This certainly depends. Smile One factor is whether it is a magnet school (can come from many places, but need to be accepted -- often merit-based). As far as I know, different states have different arrangements for flexibility among school districts. When I was investigating living in Minneapolis, I found that Minneapolis is basically one giant school district, with some complicated stuff to figure out whether your 1st, 2nd and 3rd choices are granted, etc.

Quote:
- I'm asking cause Anastasia said, no. But if not, how's this work, then - how can the GLBT kids who need a safe haven get into this school? Do their parents have to move to the neighbourhood its located in?


There are a lot of ways to get into a specific school, and I don't know enough about how HMHS is/ will be set up. I can try to look into that tmw.

Oh hey I just remembered from littlek's link at the very beginning that there was a "so you want to enroll" link, that should turn up some of this info.

Quote:
- Is the GLBT harassment cross-the-board, cross-country? I had kinda expected GLB kids (dunno about the T, though ;-) ) wouldnt have much to fear anymore in a, say, Manhattan or San Fransisco school, is that too idealistic?


WAYYYY too idealistic. I mean, I'd believe LESS, but NONE -- no.

Quote:
I'm asking cause otherwise, it seems to me that, with the school being in NY and all, the very kids who would actually need such a safe haven school most have the smallest chance of getting to use it ... ? (Stasia & I were joking, they'd probably need it more in Idaho - but there a GLB school would probably be torched, huh <wink>)


I think there would be plenty who need it... not just born and raised in NY but runaways, etc. -- NYC is a destination for the ones in Idaho who can't handle it.

Quote:
- How would enrollment take place? Here you have to register your kid on the waiting list of the school you would like him to attend, I think - years in advance, actually.


See above... I think the site goes into it. (Typing fast and have to log out as soon as I'm done, curious myself.)

Quote:
Oh yeah, is it really true that theres no separate classes for brighter, less bright high school kids in the US? Like, every 15-year old goes into the same class? Sounds like something a socialist would love <g>, but how does that work? Do kids get lots of self-study assignments and so on, so they can work ahead of their peers? How else are they kept from underchallenged boredom etc?


There are gifted and talented programs and/ or advanced placement classes for the brighter, remedial for the less bright, in addition to the tracks fishin' mentioned. Then lots more variation according to the school. (For example, my H.S. just had Calculus classes, and whomever was ready could take it, no matter what grade. If we finished calculus in 10th grade [as some of us did], we could either be finished with math or take University classes, free.)
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jul, 2003 11:04 pm
Thanks to nimh's questions and all your answers, I've now learnt that you really have a very social-democratic school system.

(You know, such one, as nimh pointed out already, which doesn't work very good [party discipline, nimh Laughing ].)
0 Replies
 
 

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