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NYC's Gay High School

 
 
the prince
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jul, 2003 03:40 am
Watching this discussion with interest !
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jul, 2003 09:25 am
OK, here's what I found on the site:

Quote:
Acceptance into The Harvey Milk School is through a highly selective interview process overseen by the Director of The Harvey Milk School, in conjunction with The Hetrick-Martin Institute and Department of Education.

Because this is a New York City Public School, you must be a legal resident of the City of New York to be eligible for enrollment.

If you live with a parent or guardian or are under the age of 18, your parent/guardian must accompany you to the interview.

Please bring your school records, transcripts, up to date immunization records, and birth certificate and social security card.

Youth who are being considered for acceptance after the initial interview should expect two more interviews before an offer of admission is made.

Failure to comply with the requirements of this interview could jeopardize your opportunity for admission into The Harvey Milk School.

Due to the limited number of vacancies at the school each semester, not all youth who interview will be offered admission.


Walter, my high school was weird -- an Open school -- so don't read too much into that.

Thomas knows I was the chair of a charter school committee (trying to set one up) and asked me to weigh in on the cost thing. I haven't thus far because a) I'm not sure, and b) I think that tangent distracts from the main discussion -- would there really be so much opposition if the headline were just, "New York City Will Open Another High School, Will Serve 100 Students"?

But, miscellaneous thoughts on the cost thing:

I think patiodog's analysis is correct in terms of real-life impact. The two things I would add is that schools are given a certain amount of money per student (more for disabled students), say $10,000. So if 30 students leave school A for school B, $300,000 leaves, too. This while it's very possible that no teaching positions or comparable expenses will be cut.

However, it's also possible that the school has a limited number of openings, and 30 other students from the waiting list will fill the gap, no problem. Or even just that the school will happen to gain 40 new students that year.

When I was investigating this in terms of charter schools (I don't know how it works for transfer among public schools), there were specific tax write-offs and supplements that eased that burden when students transferred away. Something like the schools that were left got a certain percentage of the $$ they would have had the first year, a lesser percentage the next year, less the next, and then nothing after the third year.

Separately, public school funds can't be used to establish a NEW school, in terms of the physical building, desks, etc. Some funds can be used for books. Charter schools have access to a special low-interest loan program for this purpose, but it's a loan. So the $2.3 million thing is neither here nor there -- it's not like that money would otherwise go to other schools. I assume that's where the foundation comes in, and the money was probably raised for this specific purpose. (I.e. calling Ellen DeGeneres and asking her whether she would like to be part of an exciting initiative to start the country's first publicly funded gay and lesbian high school.) (Can you tell I'm in fundraising mode myself these days? Razz)
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patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jul, 2003 09:57 am
(here i was all prepared to be useful and answer nimh's laundry list of questions, and somebody already done it. i will chime in briefly on one, however.)

Quote:
- Are students alllowed to go to a public school of their own choice, in or outside their own neighbourhood? (Here they are, depending on the schools' waiting lists). Wasnt that what the whole vouchers fracas is about?


The issue of "bussing" (i.e., enrolling minority students in schools outside of their area to both relieve stress on their local schools and to diversify the schools they are sent to) used to be a very hot topic in the U.S. -- I think, anyway, when I was still stumbling around in diapers, and it still happens from place to place. (A little Googling would tell a less lazy person where and how much.) Here in (highly segregated, for all its supposed advancement) Seattle, a number of students are bussed in to Ballard High for this reason, though the waiting list to get in from other districts is very long.

But even without such politically charged actions, some mobility is possible in many areas. I attended grammar school outside of my district, and basically had my choice of two (quite different) high schools to attend -- and a third, if I'd been in danger of dropping out or absolutely had to hold down a job in the afternoons.
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jul, 2003 10:05 am
Sofia wrote:
And, now to piss everybody off. Surprised

I think gay people, generally speaking, are more likely to have psychological problems than the general public.

I know people aren't supposed to say this, but I bet my boobs it's true, based on years of working with mentally ill and gay people.

If you lose, who gets your boobs?
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jul, 2003 10:12 am
sozobe wrote:
Thomas knows I was the chair of a charter school committee (trying to set one up) and asked me to weigh in on the cost thing. I haven't thus far because a) I'm not sure, and b) I think that tangent distracts from the main discussion -- would there really be so much opposition if the headline were just, "New York City Will Open Another High School, Will Serve 100 Students"?


Thanks! I also didn't want to distract from the main discussion -- that's why I asked you by private message. But this has come up in several threads now, so I really wanted to know whether there's something I'm not getting here or if the cost argument is really a red herring as I suspected. It's nice to hear an expert's take on the thing -- though it's certainly unacceptable you didn't come out absolutely, 100% on my side! Razz

sozobe wrote:
(Can you tell I'm in fundraising mode myself these days? Razz)

I so can! Here's hoping you're as successful at it as these guys were. Good luck! Smile

-- Thomas
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jul, 2003 10:20 am
At the moment I do not have the time to give a synopsis of the way public high schools are run in NY City. I am a product of the NY City school system though be it many years ago, the basics remain the same. But I would like to clear up one thing. There is no busing of high school students public transportation which is always available is used. In my day we paid our own fare today I believe they get bus and subway passes.
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Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jul, 2003 11:58 am
Scrat wrote:
Sofia wrote:
And, now to piss everybody off. Surprised

I think gay people, generally speaking, are more likely to have psychological problems than the general public.

I know people aren't supposed to say this, but I bet my boobs it's true, based on years of working with mentally ill and gay people.

If you lose, who gets your boobs?


BPB has already tried to collect. :wink:
0 Replies
 
Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jul, 2003 12:21 pm
ehBeth wrote:
I don't think young gay males are suicidal because they're young gay males - I think it's a response to the reaction they get from some people.

My point above is that I don't know whether anyone has actually shown that to be true. I think everyone tends to assume it, but that's a very different thing than showing that the suggested cause and effect relationship exists.

Teens who listen to heavy metal and have a predilection for goth styles might also have higher suicide rates (I suspect this is true), but I would expect it to be because of the choices they make and the outlook they embrace rather than a reaction to not being accepted by the world.
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patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jul, 2003 01:45 pm
Quote:
There is no busing of high school students public transportation which is always available is used.


It's simply a term for enrolling students outside of their geographically determined district, only loosely based in a particular mode of transportation. But I dunno either how school district determinations are made in NYC.
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jul, 2003 03:04 pm
Scrat - if you'll look at the links I provided, you will see that the research is there - confirming that young gay males are disproportionately represented in suicide stats in the U.S. There are also links to studies within at least one of those links, which talk about causation.
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jul, 2003 03:10 pm
ehBeth wrote:
Scrat - if you'll look at the links I provided, you will see that the research is there - confirming that young gay males are disproportionately represented in suicide stats in the U.S. There are also links to studies within at least one of those links, which talk about causation.

ehBeth - Which link discusses causation? (Please don't force me to read through them all if you know which one. Thanks!)
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jul, 2003 03:15 pm
i can't get at them from here Scrat (i'm at work, and i can't access the link). if i get back before Wednesday, i'll take a look. As i recall, the links are fairly well labelled as to their contents, but as i say, i'll take a look if i can.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jul, 2003 03:17 pm
Scrat, you seem interested, so would it be such a trial to glance through everything yourself?
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the prince
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Jul, 2003 02:28 am
From today's times...

Quote:
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SkisOnFire
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Jul, 2003 04:19 am
There are specialized high schools for people of almost
any type of ethnicity (Celtic, Chinese, Hispanic, etc)
any type of religion (Christian, Jewish, Muslim, spiritual, etc)
any type of academic focus (trade school, performing arts, math and science, computer, Latin, etc).
as well as schools for all-male, all-female, behavioral problems, rich snots, special education, or grade-free.

We have Waldorf schools, Woolman schools, Montessourri schools, international curriculums, home schooling networks, and even free-form student-run schools where each individual creates their own curriculum as they go.

The list is endless. We keep experimenting! Sozobe's arguments seem very level-headed, rational and clear, but I can't understand her incredible patience. Why would anyone debate *against* a LGBT school?

It baffles me why anyone would be so fascinated and consumed by one particular issue (gayness) that they would strongly think a gay school is any different from other criteria. Why is there any controversy here? Who is so fascinated by homosexuality that they spend any energy being against it?

It makes no difference what the criteria is. If someone created a high school just for left-handed blonde unicyclists, I'd say more power to them! No harm done and the experiment is well worth it. If there's public demand for it, they'll succeed and serve people well. If there's no demand for it, then the school will go out of business.

The nice thing about free enterprise is that all debate is pointless. Simply try a hundred random ideas and whatever works, works. So no matter what, the experiment will be a great success just because we keep trying different things.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Jul, 2003 06:15 am
Thank you all very much for your informative responses! It sounds like, at least in the question of "levels" of high school education (but then, thats not the topic of the thread, I was digressing), there is a surprising diversity and variation in what policies are implemented.

BBL. <nods>.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Jul, 2003 06:23 am
Quote:
The conservatives don't like it because it means they have to say the word "gay" in a debate, which means they might be it, while the liberals don't want the "spectre" of segregation raising its head again, given that it's previously done so much harm with public changing rooms, underwear, people with more or fewer than five items to pay for and the like.


Laughing Laughing

In the meantime - this is from the Times, huh? Damn, if an American farts we smell it all over the world, huh - or is it the summer low in serious news business that done it?

I first saw this thread, came back to the computer a little later and checked, for unrelated reasons, the site of the "Voice of the Netherlands" weekly-opinion-poll TV program, and, of course, guess what one of this week's questions was about? Well, some 80% (or was it 90%?) of the interviewed Dutch thought it was a bad idea, this gay high school, just so you know. What the **** makes them think they should have an opinion about it, I dunno <grins>.
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cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Jul, 2003 06:53 am
OMG, I just realized that this whole argument is a complete moot point, and why should we care? Why should the world care? I still don't know...Smile The whole argument smells like slow news day to me Laughing
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the prince
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Jul, 2003 06:57 am
nimh wrote:

In the meantime - this is from the Times, huh? Damn, if an American farts we smell it all over the world, huh - or is it the summer low in serious news business that done it?

.......What the **** makes them think they should have an opinion about it, I dunno <grins>.


Dunno abt the Dutch, but with our current PM - anything which happens in the US is bound to happen in the UK sooner or later !!

I think I should start preparing to go back to school .. Wink
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 31 Jul, 2003 07:19 am
Wink

Really well said, SkisOnFire.

Patiodog, somehow I missed your long post -- I don't know if you added the bulk of it in your edit, or if it was just in the middle of a bunch and I overlooked it. I think the central difference is that if it got too terrible, your sister had options. She could go to another school if she really needed to/ wanted to, where her difference was not so glaring.

I take your point about who will actually make it in, but don't think that's enough reason for it to not exist (which I don't think you were saying.)

You just realized, eh, Cav? Razz I do think it's been an interesting discussion, though.
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