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Canada -- an alternative for some Americans???

 
 
Reply Sun 20 Jul, 2003 08:48 am
Here is an article published on AOL:

NEW YORK (July 19) - For all they share economically and culturally, Canada and the United States are increasingly at odds on basic social policies - to the point that at least a few discontented Americans are planning to move north and try their neighbors' way of life.

A husband and wife in Minnesota, a college student in Georgia, a young executive in New York. Though each has distinct motives for packing up, they agree the United States is growing too conservative and believe Canada offers a more inclusive, less selfish society.

``For me, it's a no-brainer,'' said Mollie Ingebrand, a puppeteer from Minneapolis who plans to go to Vancouver with her lawyer husband and 2-year-old son.

``It's the most amazing opportunity I can imagine. To live in a society where there are different priorities in caring for your fellow citizens.''

For decades, even while nurturing close ties with the United States, Canadians have often chosen a different path - establishing universal health care, maintaining ties with Cuba, imposing tough gun control laws. Two current Canadian initiatives, to decriminalize marijuana and legalize same-sex marriage, have pleased many liberals in the United States and irked conservatives.

New York executive Daniel Hanley, 31, was arranging a move for himself and his partner, Tony, long before the Canadian announcement about same-sex marriage. But the timing delights him; he and Tony now hope to marry in front of their families after they emigrate to British Columbia.

``Canada has an opportunity to define itself as a leader,'' Hanley said. ``In some ways, it's now closer to American ideals than America is.''

Though many gay American couples are now marrying in Canada, virtually all return home, hoping court rulings will lead to official recognition of their unions.

Hanley's situation is different because Tony - a Southeast Asian - is not a U.S. citizen. The men worried that Tony could be forced to leave the United States after his student visa expires in two years: They were elated when Canada's immigration agency said they could move there as partners.

Hanley, who works for a Fortune 500 company in Manhattan, doesn't know how the move will affect his career.

``It's a challenge, it's scary,'' he said. ``We'll have to drop everything we know here, go up there and figure it out.''

Thomas Hodges, a computer systems major at Georgia State University, said his dismay with American politics started him thinking last year about going abroad. He recently wrote an article in a campus journal titled, ``Why I Am Moving To Canada.''

``I'm thinking about Toronto, though I hear it's cold up there,'' Hodges, a lifelong Southerner, said in a telephone interview.

Hodges, 21, complained about a ``neo-conservative shift'' in the United States and praised Canada's approach to health care and education.

``The U.S. educational system is unfair - you have to live in certain areas to go to good schools,'' he said.

Rene Mercier, spokesman for Canada's immigration department, said any upsurge in U.S.-to-Canada immigration based on current political developments won't be detectable for a few years, because of the time required to process residency applications.

During the Vietnam War, U.S. emigration to Canada surged as thousands of young men, often accompanied by wives or girlfriends, moved to avoid the draft. But every year since 1977, more Canadians have emigrated to the United States than vice versa - the 2001 figures were 5,894 Americans moving north, 30,203 Canadians moving south.

Mollie Ingebrand, 34, said she has felt an affinity for Canada for many years, fueled partly by respect for its health care system. Her doubts about the United States go back even further, to a childhood spent with liberal parents in a relatively conservative part of Ohio.

``In school I was always told this is the best country on earth, and everyone else wants to be American, and that never really rang true to me,'' she said. ``As I got older, it occurred to me there were other choices.''

Her husband, George, 44, has spent little time in Canada, but said it seems to offer a more relaxed, less competitive way of life. He has no qualms about leaving his law practice and selling the family's upscale home in Minneapolis.

``I don't idealize Canada the way my wife does, but I'm ready for an adventure,'' he said. ``I don't know what I'm going to be facing. That's what I'm reveling in.''

The Ingebrands have completed the first batch of paperwork to apply for Canadian residency, hoping their talents and finances compensate for lack of specific job offers. As Minnesotans, they look forward to Vancouver's wet but mild climate: ``Green all year, no mosquitos,'' Mollie said.

At Georgia State, Hodges said some conservative schoolmates have challenged his proposed move to Canada, saying he would be abandoning his homeland.

Conversely, Mollie Ingebrand says some of her friends - people who share her left-of-center views - argue that she should stay at home to battle for changes here.

``I've been there and done that,'' Molly said. ``I don't want to stay and fight anymore. I can have that bittersweet love for my country from somewhere else.''

*****

I'm sure we have people here who will say "Good riddance" -- but perhaps there are some who think we can learn a bit about living from our Canadian neighbors.

Comments?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 2 • Views: 12,793 • Replies: 191
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sweetcomplication
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Jul, 2003 09:04 am
Re: Canada -- an alternative for some Americans???
Frank Apisa wrote:
...For decades, even while nurturing close ties with the United States, Canadians have often chosen a different path - establishing universal health care, maintaining ties with Cuba, imposing tough gun control laws. Two current Canadian initiatives, to decriminalize marijuana and legalize same-sex marriage, have pleased many liberals in the United States and irked conservatives...

Hodges, 21, complained about a ``neo-conservative shift'' in the United States and praised Canada's approach to health care and education.

``The U.S. educational system is unfair - you have to live in certain areas to go to good schools,'' he said...

Mollie Ingebrand, 34, said she has felt an affinity for Canada for many years, fueled partly by respect for its health care system.

``I've been there and done that,'' Molly said. ``I don't want to stay and fight anymore. I can have that bittersweet love for my country from somewhere else.''

*****

Comments?


As you will note from the manner in which I edited your article, I find much of it persuasive ...

My family has spent brief times in Toronto and Vancouver. If I am to act on some of my feelings, I believe I would move to Vancouver, simply because I am still a West Coast type of woman, but I just don't know if I can abandon my own country because I still hang onto the belief that we will swing back to a more humane place to live and perhaps even pass some decent healthcare initiatives. Perhaps I will feel differently if we are stuck with another 4 years of Shrub ... I really am tired of fighting the system ...
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jul, 2003 03:25 am
After living most of my life in the US, Canada has been a huge breath of fresh air for me. It's not for everyone, but I got tired of having to fight for my rights. I've been here over 3 years now and my fighting is over. My biggest problem at the moment is that my garden needs rain ;-)
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jul, 2003 04:23 am
Historically, the largest single emigrant group in Canada has been the Americans. This is not news--seems the author of the report just didn't know this very easily ascertained fact. The most about which one might quibble is the implications of politics in the examples cited. I rather think the author has an ax to grind. I may well move to Canadia within the next year or so, but that's because of Lovey. This just ain't news--it's a rather polemical piece.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jul, 2003 08:23 am
There are no chains attached to keep anyone in the US. Those who want to leave are free to do so. Bye
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jul, 2003 08:27 am
Quote:
During the Vietnam War, U.S. emigration to Canada surged as thousands of young men, often accompanied by wives or girlfriends, moved to avoid the draft. But every year since 1977, more Canadians have emigrated to the United States than vice versa - the 2001 figures were 5,894 Americans moving north, 30,203 Canadians moving south.


Huh. So, who is seeking the better life?
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jul, 2003 08:30 am
I wonder how many would leave if the door were shut after them. No right of return. Evil or Very Mad
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jul, 2003 08:31 am
Why would that happen?
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jul, 2003 08:34 am
It wouldn't. I said what If.
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jul, 2003 09:15 am
au, if you'll recall, there was no right of return for those who went to Canada during the Vietnam war. That is when emigration from the U.S. to Canada was at its peak. It would appear that no right of return is not a significant factor in the decision for most people.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jul, 2003 09:38 am
I have a different perspective on this subject, because I look at the big picture from my many travels around the world. I love coming home to the USA. This country allowed me to get a fairly good education, a above average profession that allowed us to live in comfort, and a comfortable life in retirment. About 75 percent of the people of this world wish they were in my shoes. I have need for no more, and do not seek better havens during the fall of my life. I am only thankful - sans this administration that I hope will disappear in 2004. c.i.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jul, 2003 09:40 am
BTW, I have traveled to Canada often, and will do so again on August 2 when my wife and I are going on the Trans-Canada Train Tour from Montrea/Toronto to Vancouver. c.i.
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jul, 2003 09:42 am
C.I.
Well said. People should count their blessings. Is the glass half full or half empty?
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jul, 2003 10:09 am
Have a great trip, c.i.
When you're on the train from Montreal to Toronto - about 2.5/3 hours into the trip, you'll be going along the St. Lawrence - WAVE! Setanta and I will be in the 1000 Islands/Kingston area visiting hamburger and mrs. hamburger.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jul, 2003 10:15 am
ehBeth, You're on! Wink c.i. Even made a hard copy to put in our travel documents. LOL
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cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jul, 2003 10:21 am
Well, I am biased...of course Canada is the best country in the world. Hey, we don't even need an army apparently.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jul, 2003 10:26 am
cav, That Americans can travel to Canada at will and visa-versa, speak the 'same' language, and intermingle like 'natives' of the same continent, we're all in the same boat, and blessed. c.ii.
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Montana
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jul, 2003 11:40 am
Most Canadians went to the states in the past to work. There just wasn't enough work here for everyone at the time, but most have come back in time. Now there is much more work here, so there won't be a need for the young people to leave anymore.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jul, 2003 11:45 am
I'm with ci on this one.

I'm sure Canada is a wonderful place -- and I admire the maturity in many of the decisions they are making -- but I am an American and I will always be an American.

Interesting, though, that there are people who are leaving our country because they see threats to their freedom here. My sentiments earlier notwithstanding, I think those people have a point.
0 Replies
 
Montana
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Jul, 2003 12:08 pm
I left because my freedom was taken away from me. I'd probably still be there if my rights were not seriously violated.
0 Replies
 
 

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