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FIRST A2K STRAW POLL White House 2008

 
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2007 10:13 am
woiyo wrote:
Thomas wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
As to Romney - he has plenty of name rec amongst the base. But he's a mormon, and therefore doesn't have much of a shot at winning.

That's what they said about Kennedy and his Catholicism.


Yet, he is the only mainstream candidate who has had only one wife.


Obama? Edwards? Clinton?

Maybe the only mainstream Republican candidate....

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2007 10:19 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Mmm hmmm. Catholicism is light-years more acceptable than Mormonism.

This may well be, but I don't think it's the relevant question. The relevant question is: "Is Mormonism at least as acceptable today as Catholicism was in 1960?" I believe the answer is "yes", but admittedly I have no hard data to back this up with.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2007 10:26 am
Thomas wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Mmm hmmm. Catholicism is light-years more acceptable than Mormonism.

This may well be, but I don't think it's the relevant question. The relevant question is: "Is Mormonism at least as acceptable today as Catholicism was in 1960?" I believe the answer is "yes", but admittedly I have no hard data to back this up with.


I don't really believe that the answer is 'yes,' unless Catholicism was a hell of a lot more unpopular than it is today back then.

http://www.galluppoll.com/content/?ci=26611

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2007 10:36 am
You always seem to find some BS poll that backs up anything the wackjobs in media want to back up.

(The Feb. 9-11, 2007, poll asked Americans whether " How about polling VOTERS!)


Ones religion should be irrelevant. We all know Clinton has no religion (except to itself and fundraising), Guliani disgraces his religion, Edwards distorts his religion and Romney does not discuss his religion. I like Romneys approach best.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2007 10:46 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
I don't really believe that the answer is 'yes,' unless Catholicism was a hell of a lot more unpopular than it is today back then.

http://www.galluppoll.com/content/?ci=26611


Go to page 2 of your own source. It says right there: in 1960, 71% said they would vote for a Catholic, 21% said they would not. In 2007 (page 1 of your source), 72% said they would vote for a Mormon, 24% said they would not. Taken at face value, that's pretty much the same handicap.

My own chances as an atheist do look rather grim though. And they haven't even factored in that I belong to the pro-prostitution, pro-gambling, pro-drugs, anti-death-penalty, privatize-the-schools wing of atheism.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2007 11:04 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
unless Catholicism was a hell of a lot more unpopular than it is today back then.

It most certainly was.

Today, Catholics are pretty much as accepted as Protestants. But this was not true in previous times. It was a true breakthrough when JFK became the first Catholic president of the US ever, and it was at the time still a serious risk for a party to nominate a Catholic, rather than a WASP.

The first time a major party even dared to do so was in 1928, when the Democrats (again the first to break precedents of bigotry) nominated Al Smith. He was soundly defeated by Herbert Hoover (58% to 40%), in a campaign with a generous share of Catholic-bashing. A pity - we all know how the Hoover presidency worked out..

Wait, let me look up some online source rather than just go on my memory. Here: Wikipedia summarily explains how the 1928 elections were in fact a watershed of sorts. Some fourty years before the great electoral change in which the South finally shifted from Dem to Rep, it was the decision to put up a Catholic that first lost the Dems several Southern states. It also had them losing significantly in rural areas, where Smith's opposition to Prohibition didnt go down too well either, while it had them pick up the then still traditionally Republican Massachusetts and win a majority of large cities for the first time, thanks to the mobilisation of Catholic urban immigrants. All precedents for how the political landscape was to change soon, and drastically.

The online edition of Edmund A. Moore; A Catholic Runs for President: The Campaign of 1928 from 1956 (link via Wikipedia) looks like it has lots of juicy details, though unfortunately you can only read the first page of each chapter without taking out a trial subscription. But that's enough to get this:

Quote:
For millions of Democrats in the more rural parts of the United States, however, harmony and a possible Democratic victory would be a dreadful thing if the price were victory for "Al (cohol)" Smith and his Tammany, Catholic, liquor, New York crowd, to use some of the milder characterizations. In the South most Democratic leaders opposed Smith's nomination. In this they were in harmony with the collective moral judgment of the dry, Protestant church members


And, for some couleur locale:

Quote:
CHAPTER SIX Anti-Catholicism at Flood Stage

...the relations between Catholics and Protestants in this country are a scandal and an offense against Christian charity. 1

-- Reinhold Niebuhr

"...Watch the trains!" The Pope may arrive in person, perhaps on the "north-bound train tomorrow!" So cried a Klansman to a crowd at North Manchester, Indiana. The next day's "north-bound" was met by "some fifteen hundred persons." One hapless passenger looking rather like a cleric had great difficulty in persuading the assembled multitude that he was not in fact the Pope. It is not important whether the details of this episode can be verified. There is no reason to impeach its narrator's conclusion that prejudices which made such Klan appeals politically profitable were "rampant in fully a tenth of Indiana's white, Gentile, Protestant native-born people." Though the Klan's political hold on Indiana was exceeded nowhere, Hoosiers were not altogether different from other Americans.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2007 11:10 am
Rob Bowman with the North American Mission Board of the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) says Christians need to be aware that the beliefs of the Mormon Church are inconsistent with biblical Christianity. As one Mormon candidate launches his White House bid, the Southern Baptist official is urging Christians to take advantage of materials his denomination offers that teach the truth about Mormonism.

As former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney officially announced his presidential candidacy this week, a cover story in USA Today looked at the beliefs of the Mormon Church, formally known as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Rob Bowman, manager of the apologetics and interfaith evangelism department of the SBC's North American Mission Board (NAMB), thinks Christians would be wise to take an even closer look at the Mormons, lest any be deceived about the nature and tenets of that religious group. He says although the Mormon Church wages an expensive public relations campaign, using terms familiar to appeal to evangelicals, the core teachings of the church do not line up with scripture and are inconsistent with evangelical Christianity.

For this reason, Bowman says the SBC has for decades offered, through its various entities, information resources focusing on the Mormon Church. Many of these resources detail the differences between Christian and Mormon beliefs -- of which there are many, the NAMB official observes.

For example, Bowman notes, "In 15 short years, [Mormon Church founder] Joseph Smith went from being a thoroughgoing monotheist, a believer in one god, to a thoroughgoing polytheist, teaching the existence of many gods." Also, he points out, the Latter-day Saints teach that humans can achieve godhood by joining the church and taking part in specific deeds and ceremonies.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2007 11:11 am
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2007 11:13 am
Delegates to the United Methodists' national convention meeting in Cleveland on Wednesday said the LDS Church "does not fit within the bounds of the historic, apostolic tradition of Christian faith," and that Mormons who convert to Methodism need to be re-baptized.

The convention approved a study document written by two Salt Lake City ministers, the Rev. Brian Hare-Diggs of First United Methodist Church and the Rev. Jennifer Hare-Diggs of Centenary United Methodist Church.

The nine-page paper, passed by the Methodist General Conference without floor discussion, spells out theological differences between The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the United Methodist Church.

It says Mormonism has "some radically differing doctrine on such matters of belief as the nature and being of God; the nature, origin, and purpose of Jesus Christ; and the nature and way of salvation."

The Methodists said Mormonism incorporates a "gendered, married and procreating god" with "a body of flesh and bones," and has a theology that "more closely resembles a tri-theistic or possibly a polytheistic faith" than monotheism -- worship of the one God.

The Methodists also objected that "the Jesus of Mormonism is not co-eternal with the Father and of one substance with the Father" and that Mormons add other scriptures to the Bible.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2007 11:14 am
Thanks, I wasn't aware of the history of Catholicism and presidential elections.

Dys has outlined a few of the reasons why people are a little wary of Romney, though; and I think that they are completely valid ones.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2007 11:35 am
With "September Dawn" releasing into theaters on May 4th and PBS running a special on the Mountain Meadows Massacre just prior to that, the general public is going to get a faceful of info about Mormanism and most of it won't be in a good light.

I don't know if these are somehow tied to Romney's campaign bid or not but people will see these and it may affect the primaries.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2007 11:37 am
Here is Romney's platform, along with commentary.

http://romney08.blogspot.com/2006/07/mini-platform.html
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2007 11:53 am
from what I can tell Mitt Romney's only platform is "I'm a good manager"
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2007 01:34 pm
Thomas wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
I don't really believe that the answer is 'yes,' unless Catholicism was a hell of a lot more unpopular than it is today back then.

http://www.galluppoll.com/content/?ci=26611


Go to page 2 of your own source. It says right there: in 1960, 71% said they would vote for a Catholic, 21% said they would not. In 2007 (page 1 of your source), 72% said they would vote for a Mormon, 24% said they would not. Taken at face value, that's pretty much the same handicap.

My own chances as an atheist do look rather grim though. And they haven't even factored in that I belong to the pro-prostitution, pro-gambling, pro-drugs, anti-death-penalty, privatize-the-schools wing of atheism.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2007 02:20 pm
IMO anyone who brings his religion to the presidency and has it interfere with his duties as president of this nation is not fit to be president.
Bush is an example of that abomination.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Apr, 2007 02:29 pm
Bush has no problem with killing Muslims, but never a stem cell.

I am afraid that Romney will be just as bad, if not worse. Now that he is not campaigning in Mass., his true religious convictions are coming out.
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Apr, 2007 06:14 am
Advocate wrote:
Bush has no problem with killing Muslims, but never a stem cell.

I am afraid that Romney will be just as bad, if not worse. Now that he is not campaigning in Mass., his true religious convictions are coming out.


In what ways are his "True" religious convictions coming out?
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Apr, 2007 07:13 am
Mitt feels that he should have the right to have four or five wives.

I'm just joking. He has, however, come out with some statements that seem religiously motivated, such as condemnations of gay marriage, abortion, etc.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Apr, 2007 07:18 am
I guess we can now leave Iraq. McCain said he found things there very peaceful, and that the surge is working. I guess he just likes the look of his body armor, and the company of the 100 or so soldiers surrounding him.

Seriously, in my opinion, he is making himself look like a fool through his statements while in Baghdad. The media are working him over on the safety issues.
0 Replies
 
Dghs48
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Apr, 2007 10:03 am
I'm going with Gingrich for now.....he is the only one, in my opinion, in either party, who has some workable ideas about how to get the country back on track.
0 Replies
 
 

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