Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 12:13 pm
Perhaps now we can put this episode behind us, but I doubt it. Some things just seem to go on forever. Governments, no matter what their philosophy or who leads them, always step in doo-doo. That's human beings for you, and the more centralized an organization is, the greater the opportunities.

At the beginning of the 21st century, we are still trying to figure out how to best balance government between Centralization and De-centralization. Either of those two extremes is a real disaster waiting to happen. The Constitution has served us well, it still serves us better than any alternative we know of. However, no one should ever think that perfection will ever be obtained, and human foibles and errors will continue until humans no longer run government organizations.
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blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 12:31 pm
Perhaps not. One thing was obvious in this trial. There was a vast White House conspiracy to discredit Wilson and that led to outting Plame. Bushie should be an unindicted co-conspiritor.
0 Replies
 
kickycan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 12:37 pm
Isn't that nice. I wonder if Cheney will go out and shoot somebody in the face today to celebrate scapegoats and being untouchable.
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blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 12:39 pm
"I do not expect to file any further charges," Fitzgerald said. dems, no pardon
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 12:39 pm
blueflame1 wrote:
Perhaps not. One thing was obvious in this trial. There was a vast White House conspiracy to discredit Wilson and that led to outting Plame. Bushie should be an unindicted co-conspiritor.


Funny, all this time I thought the trial was about whether or not Libby lied before a grand jury.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 12:45 pm
McGentrix wrote:
blueflame1 wrote:
Perhaps not. One thing was obvious in this trial. There was a vast White House conspiracy to discredit Wilson and that led to outting Plame. Bushie should be an unindicted co-conspiritor.


Funny, all this time I thought the trial was about whether or not Libby lied before a grand jury.


The trial is only one aspect of the larger event. In fact, the guilty plea gives great evidence that claims of a coordinated response were correct; Libby has been found to have been lying when he claimed there was not.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 12:56 pm
McGentrix wrote:
blueflame1 wrote:
Perhaps not. One thing was obvious in this trial. There was a vast White House conspiracy to discredit Wilson and that led to outting Plame. Bushie should be an unindicted co-conspiritor.


Funny, all this time I thought the trial was about whether or not Libby lied before a grand jury.

The Libby trial is just part of the overall aspect of this worthless and criminal administration.

More indictments will probably happen before the Bush pResidency comes to a "not-soon-enough" end.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 12:58 pm
BTW Ash,

Quote:
At the beginning of the 21st century, we are still trying to figure out how to best balance government between Centralization and De-centralization.


This trial and case have nothing to do with this issue at all. They have to do with illegal actions perpetrated at the highest levels of government.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 03:08 pm
Man, you've got that right, Cyclo--i have rarely seen a work of more pure fiction in the description of a straight-forward incident. Libby lied on oath, and obstructed justice. That can happen with anyone in a position of power who is neither appointed upon approval, nor elected--whether or not the government is centralized or "de-centralized."

Shame on you, Asherman.
0 Replies
 
Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 03:15 pm
I think it's readily apparent that this issue will NOT be put aside, as Asherman wishes it to be. And there are others who would rather have this whole affair swept under the carpet.

Gee, I wonder why?

How's this from the National Review? Just two hours after Libby's verdict, they insist that he be pardoned and that this affair should never have happened.

The delusional mindset of some conservatives just gets worse and worse as the wheels on their conservative wagon continue to fall of.
0 Replies
 
kuvasz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 04:36 pm
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/88/Billy_goat.jpg/250px-Billy_goat.jpg

Well, at least a golf clap for the temerity of the Judas Goat posting by our very own Cato the Great.

It is akin to a smart alack teenager attempting to get a young child to look up in the air by pointing to the sky and shouting "Look, a flock of turtles!"

There is a logic to this subject, unmentioned by our in-house and typically incorrigible rightwingers; Bush and Cheney lied about the reasons for invading Iraq, Wilson showed that they lied, Bush and Cheney got mad, they or their minions attacked Wilson through his own wife by revealing the true professional identity of his wife, (which is apparently quite a typical conservative technique such rugged and manly men employ to defend themselves), the CIA squealed to the Justice Department to investigate the possible release to the public of state secrets, a special counselor was appointed to determine whether this was true, a grand was jury impaneled, subjects were interviewed, perjury charges were brought, and convictions made.

Don't see any debate on the roll of US Federalism there.

And no one but a Goober would.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 05:55 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
blueflame1 wrote:
Perhaps not. One thing was obvious in this trial. There was a vast White House conspiracy to discredit Wilson and that led to outting Plame. Bushie should be an unindicted co-conspiritor.


Funny, all this time I thought the trial was about whether or not Libby lied before a grand jury.


The trial is only one aspect of the larger event. In fact, the guilty plea gives great evidence that claims of a coordinated response were correct; Libby has been found to have been lying when he claimed there was not.

Cycloptichorn


I may be wrong,but I dont think anyone actually pled guilty,so there was no guilty plea.

As for him being convicted,apparently the jury decided after seeing the evidence,that he was guilty.

Since I didnt follow the trial,I will have to assume they are correct.

As for a pardon by Bush,dont hold your breath.
IF it happens,it wont happen till Bush is leaving office in 2009.
And since EVERY President has the right to pardon anyone he pleases,then IF there is a pardon,it will be then and not before then.
0 Replies
 
Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 07:08 pm
mysteryman wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
blueflame1 wrote:
Perhaps not. One thing was obvious in this trial. There was a vast White House conspiracy to discredit Wilson and that led to outting Plame. Bushie should be an unindicted co-conspiritor.


Funny, all this time I thought the trial was about whether or not Libby lied before a grand jury.


The trial is only one aspect of the larger event. In fact, the guilty plea gives great evidence that claims of a coordinated response were correct; Libby has been found to have been lying when he claimed there was not.

Cycloptichorn


I may be wrong,but I dont think anyone actually pled guilty,so there was no guilty plea.

As for him being convicted,apparently the jury decided after seeing the evidence,that he was guilty.

Since I didnt follow the trial,I will have to assume they are correct.

As for a pardon by Bush,dont hold your breath.
IF it happens,it wont happen till Bush is leaving office in 2009.
And since EVERY President has the right to pardon anyone he pleases,then IF there is a pardon,it will be then and not before then.

You would be correct in that Libby never pled guilty. There was never any plea bargaining, and that is why this all went to trial.

I would imagine that this isn't looking good at all, not just for the Bush administration but for conservative Republicans as well. Even Fox News is feeling the heat, and as per usual, does what they can to misinform:

http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/3/fox_libby_not_guilty.jpg

Not once, but twice:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/thenewswire/archive/ap/scooterfoxnews.jpg

Of course, Fox News will say that Libby was found not guilty on count 3, in which he was accused of giving false statements to to the FBI about his conversation with Time Magazine reporter Matt Cooper. But he Was found guilty of giving false statements to the FBI in regards to a conversation he had with Tim Russert (count 4). Fox News conveniently leaves out which count.

Ah, Fox News. The bastion of fair and balanced journalism.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 07:41 pm
That is unbelievable! "Beaking news" means that he wasn't convicted on one out of five. These jokers at Faux should all be sent to journalism school, they couldn't have gone yet, after they upgrade their junior high and high school.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 07:43 pm
Re: Libby Guilty
Asherman wrote:
Perhaps now we can put this episode behind us, but I doubt it. Some things just seem to go on forever. Governments, no matter what their philosophy or who leads them, always step in doo-doo. That's human beings for you, and the more centralized an organization is, the greater the opportunities.



Wjhat you really meant, big A, was "the more corrupt an organization is, the greater the opportunities".
0 Replies
 
Builder
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 07:50 pm
Scooter is the fall guy.

Any idea if his former boss, Tricky Dicky, will take any flak over this?
0 Replies
 
kuvasz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 09:00 pm
JTT wrote:
That is unbelievable! "Breaking news" means that he wasn't convicted on one out of five. These jokers at Faux should all be sent to journalism school, they couldn't have gone yet, after they upgrade their junior high and high school.


Reminds me of the ole' days of the Cold War with the USSR, where when an American beat a Soviet athletic mano-mano the Soviet press would exclaim in triumph that the Soviet athlete came in second while the American athlete came in next-to-last.

Faux News has not apparent connection to reality, and neither did the Soviet press.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 09:17 pm
am currently watchng the news. they have already asked that sentencing be delayed . they can theoretically postpone sentencing until Nov 2008 under legal guidelines and then bush will pardon him.
0 Replies
 
Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 11:04 pm
More Faux News bullsh!t:

http://static.crooksandliars.com/2007/03/hc-libby2.jpg

Let's see; the jury convicted Libby 4 out of 5 counts.

And Faux News asks if a crime was committed?

Fvcking amazing...
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Mar, 2007 07:07 am
http://www.juancole.com/graphics/libby/iceberg_small.jpg
0 Replies
 
 

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