THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, ELEVENTH THREAD

BBB, If you think the veteran's administration is over-whelmed now, Bush cut funding for the department starting in 2008/09.

Support our troops has a whole new meaning.

The 2008 President's budget for the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA)
provides approximately $86.7 billion for veterans' benefits and services: $41.8
billion in discretionary funding, including medical care collections, and $44.9
billion for entitlements.

The real issue is that Bush failed to finish the job in good time in Afghanistan, and jumped into Iraq with our military without foresight and planning for after the war. The borders remained wide open, munitions left by Saddam were taken over the the terrorists, and Iraq became a training ground for al Qaida.

Get your head out of the dark side of your arse.

Get it through your head that al-Qaeda fled Afghanistan for several places after we invaded Afghanistan in October 2001. One of those places was northeastern Iraq where in December 2001 they found sanctuary in a place where no one would bother them. When we invaded Iraq in March 2003, they had grown considerably. Unfortunately, when we attacked them there in northeastern Iraq, again many fled to other places (e.g., Iran).

The emergence of Ansar al-Islam

These smaller breakaway factions themselves gradually merged. In July 2001, al-Tawhid joined with Hamas to form the Islamic Unity Front (IUF), which the Soran Forces also joined the following month. On September 1, 2001, the IUF was dissolved and its three component groups announced the formation of Jund al-Islam. The group promptly declared jihad (holy war) against secular and other political parties in Iraqi Kurdistan deemed to have deviated from the "true path of Islam". Following armed clashes in which the PUK defeated Jund al-Islam, the group was dissolved in December 2001 and renamed Ansar al-Islam. A long-time member of the IMK, Najmuddin Faraj Ahmad, known as Mala Fateh Krekar, became its amir (leader).

The ideas and practices propagated by Jund al-Islam (and later Ansar al-Islam) represent a radical departure from mainstream Sunni Islam as practiced in Iraqi Kurdistan. The group appears to have more in common with ultra-orthodox Wahabi movements emanating from Saudi Arabia. This doctrine entails a literal interpretation of the Qur'an, and advocates a return to the proclaimed purity of the early Islamic community. Jund al-Islam declared it was seeking to "defend the areas under the influence of the Muslims from interference and control by the secularists," and that among its aims was "the propagation of virtue and the prevention of vice" (al-amr bil ma'ruf wal nahiy 'an al-munkar), as well as ensuring the application of shari'a and undertaking "the religious duty of jihad against the secularist apostates."

...
Ansar al-Islam, the AQ group your referring to, did not flee Afghanistan because of our invasion. They were a Kurdish group. That's why they were in NE Iraq. The invasion of Afghanistan had nothing to do with their being in Iraq. They were trying to take over the Kurds territory, which Saddam had no control over.

Congress's Joint Resolution September 14, 2001
emphasis added
SEC. 2. AUTHORIZATION FOR USE OF UNITED STATES ARMED FORCES.
...
(a) IN GENERAL- That the President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons.

Congress's Joint Resolution Oct. 16, 2002
Public Law 107-243 107th Congress Joint Resolution (H.J. Res. 114) To authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against Iraq.
...
[10th]Whereas members of al Qaida, an organization bearing responsibility for attacks on the United States, its citizens, and interests, including the attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, are known to be in Iraq;

[11th]Whereas Iraq continues to aid and harbor other international terrorist organizations, including organizations that threaten the lives and safety of United States citizens;
...

American Soldier, by General Tommy Franks, 7/1/2004
"10" Regan Books, An Imprint of HarperCollins Publishers

page 483:
"The air picture changed once more. Now the icons were streaming toward two ridges an a steep valley in far northeastern Iraq, right on the border with Iran. These were the camps of the Ansar al-Isla terrorists, where al Qaeda leader Abu Musab Zarqawi had trained disciples in the use of chemical and biological weapons. But this strike was more than just another [Tomahawk Land Attack Missile] bashing. Soon Special Forces and [Special Mission Unit] operators, leading Kurdish Peshmerga fighters, would be storming the camps, collecting evidence, taking prisoners, and killing all those who resisted."

page 519:
"[The Marines] also encountered several hundred foreign fighters from Egypt, the Sudan, Syria, and Lybia who were being trained by the regime in a camp south of Baghdad. Those foreign volunteers fought with suicidal ferocity, but they did not fight well. The Marines killed them all. "

Congressional Intelligence Report 09/08/2006
REPORT OF THE SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE
Conclusion 6. Postwar information indicates that the Intelligence Community accurately assessed that al-Qa'ida affiliate group Ansar al-Islam operated in Kurdish-controlled northeastern Iraq, an area that Baghdad had not controlled since 1991.

ANSAR AL-ISLAM
Ansar al-Islam (Supporters or Partisans of Islam) is a Kurdish Sunni Islamist group, promoting a radical interpretation of Islam and holy war. At the beginning of the 2003 invasion of Iraq it controlled about a dozen villages and a range of peaks in northern Iraq on the Iranian border. It has used tactics such as suicide bombers in its conflicts with the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan and other Kurdish groups.

Ansar al-Islam was formed in December 2001 as a merger of Jund al-Islam (Soldiers of Islam), led by Abu Abdallah al-Shafi'i, and a splinter group from the Islamic Movement in Kurdistan led by Mullah Krekar. Krekar became the leader of the merged Ansar al-Islam, which opposed an agreement made between IMK and the dominant Kurdish group in the area, Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK).

Ansar al-Islam fortified a number of villages along the Iranian border, with Iranian artillery support. [1]
Ansar al-Islam quickly initiated a number of attacks on the peshmerga (armed forces) of the PUK, on one occasion massacring 53 prisoners and beheading them. Several assassination attempts on leading PUK-politicians were also made with carbombs and snipers.

Ansar al-Islam comprised about 300 armed men, many of these veterans from the Afghan war, and a proportion being neither Kurd nor Arab. Ansar al-Islam is alleged to be connected to al-Qaeda, and provided an entry point for Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and other Afghan veterans to enter Iraq.

If we were so interested in keeping this AQ group out of Kurd territory we could have sent our troops or aircraft into the Kurd territory and destroy them.

When we invaded Iraq they controlled a dozen villages and some mountain peaks on the Iranian border. We didn't need to invade Iraq to take them out.

The emergence of Ansar al-Islam

These smaller breakaway factions themselves gradually merged. In July 2001, al-Tawhid joined with Hamas to form the Islamic Unity Front (IUF), which the Soran Forces also joined the following month. On September 1, 2001, the IUF was dissolved and its three component groups announced the formation of Jund al-Islam. The group promptly declared jihad (holy war) against secular and other political parties in Iraqi Kurdistan deemed to have deviated from the "true path of Islam". Following armed clashes in which the PUK defeated Jund al-Islam, the group was dissolved in December 2001 and renamed Ansar al-Islam. A long-time member of the IMK, Najmuddin Faraj Ahmad, known as Mala Fateh Krekar, became its amir (leader).

The ideas and practices propagated by Jund al-Islam (and later Ansar al-Islam) represent a radical departure from mainstream Sunni Islam as practiced in Iraqi Kurdistan. The group appears to have more in common with ultra-orthodox Wahabi movements emanating from Saudi Arabia. This doctrine entails a literal interpretation of the Qur'an, and advocates a return to the proclaimed purity of the early Islamic community. Jund al-Islam declared it was seeking to "defend the areas under the influence of the Muslims from interference and control by the secularists," and that among its aims was "the propagation of virtue and the prevention of vice" (al-amr bil ma'ruf wal nahiy 'an al-munkar), as well as ensuring the application of shari'a and undertaking "the religious duty of jihad against the secularist apostates."

[Al-Qaeda] were not the reason we went into Iraq.

Bush was not interested in doing that. He wanted to use them for propaganda purposes so he could invade Iraq, install a government submissive to America and have our oil companies control their oil.
Obviously this AQ group and Saddam Hussein were not even remotely close to one another as the Bush administration trid to make us believe. And it's also obvious that the Afgan invasion had nothing to do with them being in Iraq.

Yeah, let's try the same stupid things again that we screwed up so badly the first time.

Genius

Cycloptichorn

Updated: 3:22 p.m. CT April 11, 2007
WASHINGTON - Joseph Biden, chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and a Democratic presidential candidate, called Wednesday for the use of military force to end the suffering in Darfur.

"I would use American force now," Biden said at a hearing before his committee. "I think it's not only time not to take force off the table. I think it's time to put force on the table and use it."

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Yeah, let's try the same stupid things again that we screwed up so badly the first time.

Genius

Cycloptichorn

OK lets do that...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18059937/

Quote:

Updated: 3:22 p.m. CT April 11, 2007
WASHINGTON - Joseph Biden, chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and a Democratic presidential candidate, called Wednesday for the use of military force to end the suffering in Darfur.

"I would use American force now," Biden said at a hearing before his committee. "I think it's not only time not to take force off the table. I think it's time to put force on the table and use it."

So,lets invade another country,one that is absolutely no threat to us or of any vital interest to the US,just because Biden wants to.

And this guy is running for President on the dem side?

mysteryman wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Yeah, let's try the same stupid things again that we screwed up so badly the first time.

Genius

Cycloptichorn

OK lets do that...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18059937/

Quote:

Updated: 3:22 p.m. CT April 11, 2007
WASHINGTON - Joseph Biden, chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and a Democratic presidential candidate, called Wednesday for the use of military force to end the suffering in Darfur.

"I would use American force now," Biden said at a hearing before his committee. "I think it's not only time not to take force off the table. I think it's time to put force on the table and use it."

So,lets invade another country,one that is absolutely no threat to us or of any vital interest to the US,just because Biden wants to.

And this guy is running for President on the dem side?

Biden? Senator from MBNA?

He might say he's running for president, but he isn't really. I mean, he is in the same way that Tancredo and Paul are. Just to be able to talk.

Cycloptichorn

Cycloptichorn wrote:

mysteryman wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Yeah, let's try the same stupid things again that we screwed up so badly the first time.

Genius

Cycloptichorn

OK lets do that...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18059937/

Quote:

Updated: 3:22 p.m. CT April 11, 2007
WASHINGTON - Joseph Biden, chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and a Democratic presidential candidate, called Wednesday for the use of military force to end the suffering in Darfur.

"I would use American force now," Biden said at a hearing before his committee. "I think it's not only time not to take force off the table. I think it's time to put force on the table and use it."

So,lets invade another country,one that is absolutely no threat to us or of any vital interest to the US,just because Biden wants to.

And this guy is running for President on the dem side?

Biden? Senator from MBNA?

He might say he's running for president, but he isn't really. I mean, he is in the same way that Tancredo and Paul are. Just to be able to talk.

Cycloptichorn

But he is a democrat,and since he claims to be running for President,then he is apparently saying what he would do as President.
And,since he is running,and since the press is taking him seriously,then his words are worth noting.

Yet,you say nothing about his comments except to dismiss him.
Why is that?

Yeah, let's try the same stupid things again that we screwed up so badly the first time.

Genius

Cycloptichorn

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Yeah, let's try the same stupid things again that we screwed up so badly the first time.

Genius

Cycloptichorn

What we have been doing in Iraq and Afghanistan maybe a stupid thing. What I proposed we do in Iraq and Afghanistan may be a stupid thing. However, what I proposed is certainly not the same stupid thing we have been doing in Iraq and Afghanistan.

One would in deed have to be really stupid to think that.