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THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, ELEVENTH THREAD

 
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2007 03:08 pm
Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://www.d-n-i.net/fcs/fabius_iraq_series_2006_part_I.htm#quotes


Six months it is, ad infinitum?! Alternatives are 1. Cut and Run, and 2. Turn around and Walk - that's hoping there's no #3, getting blown out of there.....
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 May, 2007 03:12 pm
It seems those "six months" gets stretched over and over again. Even Bush doesn't use that tactic; he just doesn't want any time lines.
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 May, 2007 11:35 am
George Bush- terrorist greatest ally.

Quote:
Influx of Al Qaeda, money into Pakistan is seen Arduous search
Nevertheless, U.S. intelligence and military officials said, the surge has yet to produce a single lead on Bin Laden's or Zawahiri's location that could be substantiated.

"We're not any closer," said a senior U.S. military official who monitors the intelligence on the hunt for Bin Laden.

The lack of progress underscores the difficulty of the search more than five years after the Sept. 11 attacks. Despite a $25-million U.S. reward, current and former intelligence officials said, the United States has not had a lead on Bin Laden since he fled American and Afghan forces in the Tora Bora region of Afghanistan in early 2002.

"We've had no significant report of him being anywhere," said a former senior CIA official who, like others interviewed for this article, spoke on condition of anonymity when discussing U.S. intelligence operations. U.S. spy agencies have not even had information that "you could validate historically," the official said, meaning a tip on a previous Bin Laden location that could subsequently be verified.

President Bush is given detailed presentations on the hunt's progress every two to four months, in addition to routine counter-terrorism briefings, intelligence officials said.

The presentations include "complex schematics, search patterns, what we're doing, where the Predator flies," said one participant, referring to flights by unmanned airplanes used in the search. The CIA has even used sand models to illustrate the topography of the mountainous terrain where Bin Laden is believed to be hiding.

Still, officials said, they have been unable to answer the basic question of whether they are getting closer to their target.

"Any prediction on when we're going to get him is just ridiculous," said the senior U.S. counter-terrorism official. "It could be a year from now or the Pakistanis could be in the process of getting him right now."

In a written response to questions from The Times, the CIA said it "does not as a rule discuss publicly the details of clandestine operations," but acknowledged it had stepped up operations against Bin Laden and defended their effectiveness.

"The surge has been modest in size, here and overseas, but has added new skills and fresh thinking to the fight against a resilient and adaptive foe," CIA spokesman Paul Gimigliano said in the statement. "It has paid off, generating more information about Al Qaeda and helping take terrorists off the street."

The CIA spies are part of a broader espionage arsenal aimed at Bin Laden and Zawahiri that includes satellites, electronic eavesdropping stations and the unmanned airplanes.

Pakistan pullout Contributors mobilized

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-na-binladen20may20,0,5307690,print.story?coll=la-home-center
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 May, 2007 03:33 pm
Quote:
Soft Targets
Al Qaeda's new strategy.
by Olivier Guitta
Daily Standard
05/18/2007 12:00:00 AM

WHILE THE April 11 suicide bombings in Algiers struck at hard targets--the government palace and a police station--soft targets are most likely the preferred point of attack for terrorists in the region.

Just a few weeks earlier, the U.S. Department of State had issued an updated travel warning for Algeria. It urged American citizens there to evaluate carefully the risk posed to their personal safety due to the increased frequency of small-scale terrorist attacks, including bombings, false roadblocks, kidnappings, ambushes, and assassinations. This warning is just the latest sign of a troublesome trend: terrorist groups now seem intent on striking at Western nationals.

Since the Algerian Salafist Group for Preaching and Combat (GSPC) officially changed its name to Al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb late last year, it has made clear its intention to attack foreigners. The group's first such attack targeted a bus transporting Halliburton employees in December, killing one and injuring nine more. On March 3, the group staged another attack, this one targeting Russian contractors.

The CIA recently beefed up its presence in both Algeria and Morocco. And, most likely, it was CIA intelligence data that spurred U.S. embassy officials in Algiers to issue a specific warning on March 12 of a threat to aircraft transporting Western workers to Algeria. Incidentally, the two suicide attacks "foiled" (only the bombers died) in Casablanca on April 14 were aimed at the U.S. consulate and the American language Center.

Numerous Western governments have recently warned their citizens of potential attacks, and, according to

a recent article in the Moroccan Al Bayane, partially translated by The Croissant, Spanish officials in the Maghreb no longer allow visitors to carry their cell phones onto consular property. But Algeria and Morocco are not the only dangerous places for foreigners.

On February 26, al Qaeda murdered four French nationals in Medina, Saudi Arabia. This attack came on the heels of a February 8 message put online at the Sawt Al Jihad (The Voice of Jihad) website calling for "cleaning up the Arabic peninsula of the presence of the Crusaders." Sawt Al Jihad also posted a text in June 2006 entitled "How to kill a Westerner."

Since 2003, Saudi authorities have drastically increased security around public buildings and vital infrastructure making it much more difficult for al Qaeda to attack government targets. On March 7, Saudi authorities warned all embassies in that country of the likelihood of further attacks against Western targets in yet another indication that al Qaeda has changed its strategy in response to those new security measures. The group may also be focusing on soft targets, such as foreigners, in order to create panic in the Western community. This shift could have a great effect. Indeed, by pushing Westerners to leave, al Qaeda achieves two objectives, crippling the Saudi economy and purging the peninsula of infidels.

Still, al Qaeda remains popular among Saudis. Even Prince Nayef, the minister responsible for fighting terrorism, recently acknowledged: "We are facing 10,000 people potentially ready to commit a terrorist act and behind them one million sympathizers ready to help them."

The Saudi military, too, seems to be at the very least sympathetic to al Qaeda's hatred of foreigners. According to Le Figaro, the military will exempt from training with U.S. instructors those officers who are unable to bear the presence of "infidels."
The Muslim World League condemned the February 26 attack against those four French citizens on the basis that one should not kill Muslims--the French nationals were indeed Muslims. But issuing such a statement obviously implies that it is okay to kill infidels.

The New York Sun recently revealed that the Saudi Ministry of Education's website states as one of primary goals "to arouse the spirit of Islamic jihad in order to fight our enemies." And how could it be any other way when the minister of education once headed the Muslim World League.

In this environment, from the Maghreb to the Gulf, attacks against Western targets are only likely to increase in frequency.

Olivier Guitta is the founder of The Croissant, a foreign affairs and counterterrorism newsletter.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 May, 2007 04:29 pm
Just as long as al Qaida doesn't come to the US to fight their wars on our land, it's okay for most of the Middle East, Indonesia, and the Philippines to fall under the al Qaida influence. Bush strategy.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 May, 2007 04:44 pm
Here's the latest in Lebanon.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 May, 2007 10:25 pm
Bombings kill 7 U.S. soldiers in Iraq
By ROBERT H. REID, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 30 minutes ago



BAGHDAD - Bombings killed seven U.S. soldiers in Baghdad and a southern city, the U.S. military said Sunday, and the country's Sunni vice president spoke out against a proposed oil law, clouding the future of a key benchmark for assuring continued U.S. support for the government.
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 May, 2007 07:53 am
A former senior intelligence official said he was told by one CIA briefer after the NIC papers were given to top government officials that one ranking Defense Department official had said they were "too negative" and that the papers "did not see the possibilities" Saddam's removal would present.

In his book, "At the Center of the Storm," former CIA Director George Tenet discussed the NIC assessments as well as prewar intelligence analyses his agency prepared on the same issues. While Tenet admits the CIA expected Shiites in southern Iraq, "long oppressed by Saddam, to open their arms to anyone who removed him," he said agency analysts were "not among those who confidently expected coalition forces to be greeted as liberators."

Tenet writes that the initial good feeling among most Iraqis that Saddam was out of power "would last for only a short time before old rivalries and ancient ethnic tensions resurfaced." The former intelligence analyst said such views also reflected the views in the NIC paper on post-Saddam Iraq.

The NIC assessments also projected the view that a long-term Western military occupation would be widely unacceptable, particularly to the Iraqi military. It also said Iraqis would wait and see whether the new governing authority, whether foreign or Iraqi, would provide security and basic services such as electricity.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 May, 2007 08:41 am
So why did America and Britain invade Iraq? They knew almost for certain there were no wmd, so thats out. (The public were given a slightly different story of course). Bush has admitted Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11, thats out. They knew it would likely make the threat from terrorism worse, so defeating terrorism doesnt hold water. Freedom for the Iraqi people? Sure Saddam was bad but the worst of his excesses happened when he was our "friend". We only started to fret about the poor oppressed Iraqis when Saddam officially became our enemy. Bringing democracy? I must admit to falling for this one myself. The fact is Bush and Blair were warned of potential chaos in Iraq after the invasion. But they invaded anyway. There has been chaos, and worse. And at huge cost. All this could have been forseen, and in fact was forseen. Bush didnt wake up one morning, decided he felt particularly powerful that day, and started looking for a country to invade. There must have been a pretty powerful and persuasive reason for Bush and Blair to have done what they did. The fact that we and the Irai people are paying a terrible price for that decision, that Iraq has turned into a nightmare from which we cant wake up, makes the search for the real reasons for the invasion even more pressing. Blair is going now. Soon Bush will have gone. Iraq wont be their problem any more, it will be ours to pay the cost in blood and treasure for their folly. I want an answer to my simple question.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 May, 2007 09:18 am
How do you come about these conclusions?
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 May, 2007 09:22 am
McGentrix wrote:
How do you come about these conclusions?


By simply reading the news and post war reports with his eyes wide open. You should try it some time.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 May, 2007 09:30 am
Then you guys must be reading some different news and post war reports then the rest of us.

They did not know "knew almost for certain there were no wmd", Bush never tried to associate Saddam to 9/11 other then express concerns for further terror attacks, Iraq is a central front in the war on terror "so defeating terrorism doesnt hold water" is just plain wrong.

Freeing the Iraqi people and bringing democracy are mere benefits we provided in making our country safer from future terror attacks. You guys should read about the Bush Doctrine.

If you want a clear answer to your question, read the Joint Resolution to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq.

It explains it pretty well.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 May, 2007 09:36 am
Pretty much everything in your post is 100% untrue.

Quote:

Then you guys must be reading some different news and post war reports then the rest of us.


Yes, we call it the 'actual news.' And which post-war reports showed the WMD they found, and all the peace that they've achieved?

Quote:

They did not know "knew almost for certain there were no wmd"


BS. They knew that they didn't know for certain, that there was conflicting evdience. The conflicting evidence was never given to the American people, who were told it was a 'slam dunk.'

Quote:
Bush never tried to associate Saddam to 9/11 other then express concerns for further terror attacks


Again, BS. Bush uses the tactic of Conflation to merge the two in listener's minds constantly. Cheney is even worse about it.

Quote:

Iraq is a central front in the war on terror "so defeating terrorism doesnt hold water" is just plain wrong.


Only because we made it that way. And, in large part, Iraqis haven't kicked out the terrorists b/c they agree with fighting the occupying forces. This is BS.

Quote:

Freeing the Iraqi people and bringing democracy are mere benefits we provided in making our country safer from future terror attacks. You guys should read about the Bush Doctrine.


Except, it isn't going to happen. They aren't going to have more freedom then they did before, they aren't safer, and neither are we. This war has strengthed AQ, not weakened it; provided them with more money and recruits, not less. How can you call an action which gives the enemy greater strength, and angers more people in the region (giving him more recruits), to be one which makes our country 'safer?' Again, BS.

You live in a fantasy world, McG, in which the things you've written are even remotely true. They aren't, and you really should wake up to this.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 May, 2007 09:48 am
McGentrix wrote:
Then you guys must be reading some different news and post war reports then the rest of us.

They did not know "knew almost for certain there were no wmd", Bush never tried to associate Saddam to 9/11 other then express concerns for further terror attacks, Iraq is a central front in the war on terror "so defeating terrorism doesnt hold water" is just plain wrong.

Freeing the Iraqi people and bringing democracy are mere benefits we provided in making our country safer from future terror attacks. You guys should read about the Bush Doctrine.

If you want a clear answer to your question, read the Joint Resolution to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq.

It explains it pretty well.


What Cycloptichorn said and that Resolution to Authorize the Use of United States Armed forces against Iraq ain't worth the paper it was written on. They were all wrong. They should have known better had they bothered to double check anything they were told by this bunch of lying crooks currently in office.

(I'm including the democrats. It is this issue alone which makes it hard for me to vote since most of the democrats running for office went right along with the "bush doctrine." (sounds like a religious screed) ) I just have to hold my nose and vote the better of two evils.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 May, 2007 09:56 am
revel has it spot on. The problem was the naivete of congress to trust the administration to "tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth." For their failure in not double-checking what they were told, they must also accept some of the blame for this mess in Iraq - for "authorizing" the war.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 May, 2007 10:09 am
I'm sorry, but I have stopped reading cycloptichorn's rantings because I find them pedantic and tiresome.

Upon reviewing his post I find my choice to be wise.

It's easy to look at the results of the war and see where mistakes have been made and where intelligence turned out to be incorrect. Much like a scientific experiment where the results prove or disprove the working hypothesis.

Results do not make the hypothesis a lie though and that seems to be what so many anti-Bushites want to do . Prove that he lied because the war showed them to be wrong... doesn't make any sense.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 May, 2007 10:11 am
McG, It's because you have a "mental block."
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 May, 2007 10:12 am
McGentrix wrote:
I'm sorry, but I have stopped reading cycloptichorn's rantings because I find them pedantic and tiresome.

Upon reviewing his post I find my choice to be wise.

It's easy to look at the results of the war and see where mistakes have been made and where intelligence turned out to be incorrect. Much like a scientific experiment where the results prove or disprove the working hypothesis.

Results do not make the hypothesis a lie though and that seems to be what so many anti-Bushites want to do . Prove that he lied because the war showed them to be wrong... doesn't make any sense.


The problem with your screed doesn't lie in the past, but the present.

Iraq isn't getting any better and it won't any time soon. There isn't any 'bringing freedom' to the Iraqi people. Al Qaeda isn't weakened by the fight in Iraq.

Forget about the past - you're wrong about what's happening right now, and what that means for us. But what's surprising about that? You've been wrong about this same stuff for years.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 May, 2007 10:13 am
Is lying about the reason for a war an impeachable offense?
By John W. Dean
FindLaw Columnist
Special to CNN.com
Friday, June 6, 2003 Posted: 5:17 PM EDT (2117 GMT)

Legal commentary from FindLaw's Writ

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LAW DICTIONARY


(FindLaw) -- President George W. Bush has got a very serious problem. Before asking Congress for a joint resolution authorizing the use of U.S. military forces in Iraq, he made a number of unequivocal statements about the reason the United States needed to pursue the most radical actions any nation can undertake -- acts of war against another nation.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 May, 2007 11:13 am
mcg wrote :

Quote:
... where intelligence turned out to be incorrect....


from wiki :

Quote:
Intelligence is a property of mind that encompasses many related abilities, such as the capacities to reason, plan, solve problems, think abstractly, comprehend ideas and language, and learn


apparently there was NO "intelligence" in the "intelligence" .
hbg
0 Replies
 
 

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