9
   

THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, ELEVENTH THREAD

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sat 29 Nov, 2008 12:56 pm
@ican711nm,
The a simple search on Google to find your answers. It's all there, only if you look for it. +

For another, it would really be helpful if you learned how to comprehend what you read.
ican711nm
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 29 Nov, 2008 01:55 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Please answer the question: What do you think actually caused al-Qaeda to increase all over the world, and more al-Qaeda attacks to happen after March 2003 during Bush's term?
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sat 29 Nov, 2008 03:00 pm
@ican711nm,
How the phuck would I know; I'm not part of that group in any way shape or form. Ask bin Laden, he might have an answer for you. If you bothered to read the media since Bush took over the white house, al qaida violence increased all over the world. But you are incapable of remembering these small details.
ican711nm
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 29 Nov, 2008 05:19 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I asked you to please answer the question, Cice: What do you think actually caused al-Qaeda to increase all over the world, and more al-Qaeda attacks to happen after March 2003 during Bush's term? You answered:
"How the phuck would I know; I'm not part of that group in any way shape or form. Ask bin Laden, he might have an answer for you."

Just as I thought! You don't know what caused al-Qaeda to increase all over the world, and more al-Qaeda attacks to happen after March 2003 during Bush's term. I guess you know al-Qaeda declared war against the USA in 1996, Clinton was president of the USA from January 1993 to 2001, and Bush has been president since January 2001?

As far as you know, my post that al-Qaeda caused itself to increase all over the world, and more al-Qaeda attacks to happen after March 2003 during Bush's term, is correct.

cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sat 29 Nov, 2008 05:31 pm
@ican711nm,
al Qaeda was able to increase because Bush let it happen. Bush had the opportunity very early on to eliminate bin Laden after 9-11, but he wanted his war in Iraq instead.

You are totally ignorant; nothing "increases" by itself. They must have the opportunity, and they had that in spades. It even grew in Iraq where Bush had his war; he's been a total incompetent leader of the free world.

If Bush had followed through in Afghanistan when he first sent in our troops to find bin Laden, that would have stopped al Qaeda cold in their tracks - without a leader.

bin Laden thanked Allah for Bush; it was the best time for recruitment for al Qaeda.
ican711nm
 
  0  
Reply Sun 30 Nov, 2008 10:51 am
@cicerone imposter,
ican711nm wrote:
What do you think actually caused al-Qaeda to increase all over the world, and more al-Qaeda attacks to happen after March 2003 during Bush's term?

cicerone imposter wrote:
The a simple search on Google to find your answers. It's all there, only if you look for it.

ican711nm wrote:
Please answer the question: What do you think actually caused al-Qaeda to increase all over the world, and more al-Qaeda attacks to happen after March 2003 during Bush's term?

cicerone imposter wrote:
How the phuck would I know; I'm not part of that group in any way shape or form.

cicerone imposter wrote:
al Qaeda was able to increase because Bush let it happen.

? ? ?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Nov, 2008 11:00 am
@ican711nm,
"All" of us on a2k know you fail the reading and comprehension test, but try to read the article on this link. http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0520-02.htm
ican711nm
 
  0  
Reply Sun 30 Nov, 2008 11:24 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0520-02.htm
Published on Tuesday, May 20, 2003 by the Toronto Star
Iraq War Helped Boost Al Qaeda
Allowed Network to Recruit: Experts

LONDON - The U.S.-led war on Iraq gave Al Qaeda the opportunity to reinvigorate its weakened terrorist network with new recruits and more funding, say experts on terrorism.

The Iraq war "clearly increased the terrorist impulse," said Jonathan Stevenson, senior fellow for counter-terrorism at London's International Institute for Strategic Studies.

The U.S.-led invasion, at least in the short term, drew more people toward Osama bin Laden's vision of a global clash between Islam and the West, Stevenson said yesterday.
...

Jonathan Stevenson came to his conclusion two months after the USA invaded Iraq.

What is Jonathan Stevenson's conclusion based on more than five years observation as of November 20, 2008?


0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  0  
Reply Sun 30 Nov, 2008 12:03 pm
Jonathan Stevenson failed to mention the fact that al-Qaeda members in December 2001, had fled Afghanistan for Iraq after the USA invaded Afghanistan. By the time the USA invaded Iraq March 20, 2003, there were more than a thousand al-Qaeda in northeastern Iraq. The Al-Qaeda in northeastern Iraq had been recruiting more al-Qaeda every month prior to the USA invasion of Iraq. Subsequent to the USA invasion of Iraq, more al-Qaeda were recruited to replace the ones killed, captured or driven out of Iraq by the USA invasion.

There is zero reason to even suspect, much less believe, that those al-Qaeda in northeastern Iraq would have stopped growing if the USA had not invaded Iraq.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  0  
Reply Sun 30 Nov, 2008 12:18 pm
President Clinton sought to liberate Iraq by supporting the Iraqi opposition that advocated a very different future for Iraq than the bitter reality of internal repression and external aggression that the current regime in Baghdad then offered. President Clinton declared that U.S. support must be attuned to what the opposition can effectively make use of as it develops over time. President Clinton tried this process for liberating Iraq until the end of his term January 2001. President Bush continued to try this same process until January 2003. This process continued to not work, so President Bush then tried a different process.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Nov, 2008 04:18 pm
ican has now disappeared from view - for good.
revel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2008 08:31 am
I'm Still Tortured by What I Saw in Iraq

Quote:
I should have felt triumphant when I returned from Iraq in August 2006. Instead, I was worried and exhausted. My team of interrogators had successfully hunted down one of the most notorious mass murderers of our generation, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the leader of al-Qaeda in Iraq and the mastermind of the campaign of suicide bombings that had helped plunge Iraq into civil war. But instead of celebrating our success, my mind was consumed with the unfinished business of our mission: fixing the deeply flawed, ineffective and un-American way the U.S. military conducts interrogations in Iraq. I'm still alarmed about that today.

I'm not some ivory-tower type; I served for 14 years in the U.S. Air Force, began my career as a Special Operations pilot flying helicopters, saw combat in Bosnia and Kosovo, became an Air Force counterintelligence agent, then volunteered to go to Iraq to work as a senior interrogator. What I saw in Iraq still rattles me -- both because it betrays our traditions and because it just doesn't work.

Violence was at its peak during my five-month tour in Iraq. In February 2006, the month before I arrived, Zarqawi's forces (members of Iraq's Sunni minority) blew up the golden-domed Askariya mosque in Samarra, a shrine revered by Iraq's majority Shiites, and unleashed a wave of sectarian bloodshed. Reprisal killings became a daily occurrence, and suicide bombings were as common as car accidents. It felt as if the whole country was being blown to bits.

Amid the chaos, four other Air Force criminal investigators and I joined an elite team of interrogators attempting to locate Zarqawi. What I soon discovered about our methods astonished me. The Army was still conducting interrogations according to the Guantanamo Bay model: Interrogators were nominally using the methods outlined in the U.S. Army Field Manual, the interrogators' bible, but they were pushing in every way possible to bend the rules -- and often break them. I don't have to belabor the point; dozens of newspaper articles and books have been written about the misconduct that resulted. These interrogations were based on fear and control; they often resulted in torture and abuse.

I refused to participate in such practices, and a month later, I extended that prohibition to the team of interrogators I was assigned to lead. I taught the members of my unit a new methodology -- one based on building rapport with suspects, showing cultural understanding and using good old-fashioned brainpower to tease out information. I personally conducted more than 300 interrogations, and I supervised more than 1,000. The methods my team used are not classified (they're listed in the unclassified Field Manual), but the way we used them was, I like to think, unique. We got to know our enemies, we learned to negotiate with them, and we adapted criminal investigative techniques to our work (something that the Field Manual permits, under the concept of "ruses and trickery"). It worked. Our efforts started a chain of successes that ultimately led to Zarqawi.

Over the course of this renaissance in interrogation tactics, our attitudes changed. We no longer saw our prisoners as the stereotypical al-Qaeda evildoers we had been repeatedly briefed to expect; we saw them as Sunni Iraqis, often family men protecting themselves from Shiite militias and trying to ensure that their fellow Sunnis would still have some access to wealth and power in the new Iraq. Most surprisingly, they turned out to despise al-Qaeda in Iraq as much as they despised us, but Zarqawi and his thugs were willing to provide them with arms and money. I pointed this out to Gen. George Casey, the former top U.S. commander in Iraq, when he visited my prison in the summer of 2006. He did not respond.

Perhaps he should have. It turns out that my team was right to think that many disgruntled Sunnis could be peeled away from Zarqawi. A year later, Gen. David Petraeus helped boost the so-called Anbar Awakening, in which tens of thousands of Sunnis turned against al-Qaeda in Iraq and signed up with U.S. forces, cutting violence in the country dramatically.

Our new interrogation methods led to one of the war's biggest breakthroughs: We convinced one of Zarqawi's associates to give up the al-Qaeda in Iraq leader's location. On June 8, 2006, U.S. warplanes dropped two 500-pound bombs on a house where Zarqawi was meeting with other insurgent leaders.

But Zarqawi's death wasn't enough to convince the joint Special Operations task force for which I worked to change its attitude toward interrogations. The old methods continued. I came home from Iraq feeling as if my mission was far from accomplished. Soon after my return, the public learned that another part of our government, the CIA, had repeatedly used waterboarding to try to get information out of detainees.


[the rest of the article at the source]
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2008 10:10 am
@revel,
revel, Thank you. The likes of iron will never understand how "we" exacerbated the recruitment of al Qaeda in Iraq, because his brain is already calcified by Bushisms. That holds true for the growth of al Qaeda throughout the world, and their comcommitant violence enacted in their name. I will cease responding to ican's posts, because he's a lost cause in the midst of change.

ican711nm
 
  0  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2008 12:03 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Cice, unlock your mind and THINK!

Obama will withdraw USA troops from Iraq by the end of 2011 as the Iraq government has ordered.
Obama will move all USA troops from Iraq cities to USA installations in Iraq by June 2009 as the Iraq government has ordered.
Obama will authorize a USA surge in Afghanistan to supress the Taliban and al-Qaeda in Afghanistan.

Here again is some evidence that al-Qaeda’s true intentions BEFORE AND AFTER THE USA INVADED IRAQ WERE AND ARE to cause the USA to leave Afghanistan AND Iraq, and follow up our departure with many more 9/11 equivalents or worse.

Osama bin Laden wrote:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/terrorism/international/fatwa_1996.html
Osama Bin Laden "Declaration of War Against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Places"-1996.

I say to you ... These youths [love] death as you love life.
…Those youths know that their rewards in fighting you, the USA, is double than their rewards in fighting some one else not from the people of the book. They have no intention except to enter paradise by killing you. An infidel, and enemy of God like you, cannot be in the same hell with his righteous executioner.

… Few days ago the news agencies had reported that the Defence Secretary of the Crusading Americans had said that "the explosion at Riyadh and Al-Khobar had taught him one lesson: that is not to withdraw when attacked by coward terrorists".

We say to the Defence Secretary that his talk can induce a grieving mother to laughter! and shows the fears that had enshrined you all. Where was this false courage of yours when the explosion in Beirut took place on 1983 AD (1403 A.H). You were turned into scattered pits and pieces at that time; 241 mainly marines solders were killed. And where was this courage of yours when two explosions made you to leave Aden in lees than twenty four hours!

But your most disgraceful case was in Somalia; where- after vigorous propaganda about the power of the USA and its post cold war leadership of the new world order- you moved tens of thousands of international force, including twenty eight thousands American solders into Somalia. However, when tens of your solders were killed in minor battles and one American Pilot was dragged in the streets of Mogadishu you left the area carrying disappointment, humiliation, defeat and your dead with you. Clinton appeared in front of the whole world threatening and promising revenge , but these threats were merely a preparation for withdrawal. You have been disgraced by Allah and you withdrew; the extent of your impotence and weaknesses became very clear. It was a pleasure for the "heart" of every Muslim and a remedy to the "chests" of believing nations to see you defeated in the three Islamic cities of Beirut , Aden and Mogadishu.

Osama bin Laden wrote:

http://www.ict.org.il/articles/fatwah.htm
Osama Bin Laden: Text of Fatwah Urging Jihad Against Americans-1998
… On that basis, and in compliance with Allah's order, we issue the following fatwa to all Muslims:
The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies -- civilians and military -- is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque [Mecca] from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim. This is in accordance with the words of Almighty Allah, "and fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together," and "fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah."

Osama bin Laden wrote:

http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg00035.html
Al-Qaida Statement Warning Muslims Against Associating With The Crusaders And Idols; Translation By JUS; Jun 09, 2004 from the Al-Qaida Organization of the Arab Gulf; 19 Rabbi Al-Akhir 1425
… No Muslim should risk his life as he may inadvertently be killed if he associates with the Crusaders, whom we have no choice but to kill.

… Everything related to them such as complexes, bases, means of transportation, especially Western and American Airlines, will be our main and direct targets in our forthcoming operations on our path of Jihad that we, with Allah's Power, will not turn away from.



0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  0  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2008 01:38 pm
Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, 09/08/2006, wrote:

Congressional Intelligence Report 09/08/2006
Postwar information indicates that the Intelligence Community accurately assessed that al-Qa'ida affiliate group Ansar al-Islam operated in Kurdish-controlled northeastern Iraq, an area that Baghdad had not controlled since 1991.


Wikipedia wrote:

Ansar-al-Islam
Ansar al-Islam was formed in December 2001.
Ansar al-Islam comprised about 300 armed men, many of these veterans from the Afghan war, and a proportion being neither Kurd nor Arab. Ansar al-Islam is alleged to be connected to al-Qaeda, and provided an entry point for Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and other Afghan veterans to enter Iraq.


General Tommy Franks wrote:

American Soldier, by General Tommy Franks, 7/1/2004
"10" Regan Books, An Imprint of HarperCollins Publishers

page 483:
"The air picture changed once more. Now the icons were streaming toward two ridges an a steep valley in far northeastern Iraq, right on the border with Iran. These were the camps of the Ansar al-Isla terrorists, where al Qaeda leader Abu Musab Zarqawi had trained disciples in the use of chemical and biological weapons. But this strike was more than just another [Tomahawk Land Attack Missile] bashing. Soon Special Forces and [Special Mission Unit] operators, leading Kurdish Peshmerga fighters, would be storming the camps, collecting evidence, taking prisoners, and killing all those who resisted."

page 519:
"[The Marines] also encountered several hundred foreign fighters from Egypt, the Sudan, Syria, and Lybia who were being trained by the regime in a camp south of Baghdad. Those foreign volunteers fought with suicidal ferocity, but they did not fight well. The Marines killed them all."

0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  0  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2008 02:27 pm
9/11 Commission Report
2.5 AL QAEDA'S RENEWAL IN AFGHANISTAN (1996-1998)
...
The Taliban seemed to open the doors to all who wanted to come to Afghanistan to train in the camps. The alliance with the Taliban provided al Qaeda a sanctuary in which to train and indoctrinate fighters and terrorists, import weapons, forge ties with other jihad groups and leaders, and plot and staff terrorist schemes. While Bin Ladin maintained his own al Qaeda guesthouses and camps for vetting and training recruits, he also provided support to and benefited from the broad infrastructure of such facilities in Afghanistan made available to the global network of Islamist movements. U.S. intelligence estimates put the total number of fighters who underwent instruction in Bin Ladin-supported camps in Afghanistan from 1996 through 1999 at 10,000 to 20,000.
...
Now effectively merged with Zawahiri's Egyptian Islamic Jihad, al Qaeda promised to become the general headquarters for international terrorism without the need for the Islamic Army Shura. Bin Ladin was prepared to pick up where he had left off in Sudan. He was ready to strike at "the head of the snake."

0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2008 02:54 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

ican has now disappeared from view - for good.

Can't take an opposing view anymore?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2008 03:12 pm
@okie,
That's not "opposing view" okie. Get your head out of your arse. The "facts" are all out there for everyone to see. I'm not into wasting time with the likes of ican who can't accept facts from credible sources.
okie
 
  0  
Reply Mon 1 Dec, 2008 03:34 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Did you have a bad holiday, ci, you seem to be pretty irritable?
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Dec, 2008 07:53 am
@cicerone imposter,
When Ican just spams recycled junk, I just keep scrolling down. I guess that is using the ignore feature the old fashioned way.

The trouble with responding in this thread for many of us is that we know almost exactly how the other is going to respond on any given subject. I imagine that is true for 'us' and well as 'them' or really most of the time just 'him'.

Despite the dullness of the thread, I keep checking it out and responding in it because there is still a war on with our people and their people still getting killed or wounded every day and I just like to keep up with the developments of Iraq.
0 Replies
 
 

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