THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, ELEVENTH THREAD

cicerone imposter wrote:

ican thinks it's for the sake of the soldier and their family to keep it from coffins being published, because as McT has said "I'm talking about the practice of secretly repatriating dead soldiers (without due honour) because the sight of the coffins would make the administrations policies look bad."

It's not about Bush's concern for the families; that's a straw man argument if there ever was one. Bush cut veteran's benefits and services at the same time he was mouthing the words "support our troops." You guys will never learn the truth about the Iraq war if your life depended on it.

Cice wants the American public to see the almost 5,000 coffins containing dead military from Iraq. Cice also claims to be able to read Bush's mind. Tell you what, Cice, get a court order to exhume and open all those coffins so you and the rest of the covetousliberals can videotape them and celibrate them to your hearts' content.

Sick

ican711nm wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:

ican thinks it's for the sake of the soldier and their family to keep it from coffins being published, because as McT has said "I'm talking about the practice of secretly repatriating dead soldiers (without due honour) because the sight of the coffins would make the administrations policies look bad."

It's not about Bush's concern for the families; that's a straw man argument if there ever was one. Bush cut veteran's benefits and services at the same time he was mouthing the words "support our troops." You guys will never learn the truth about the Iraq war if your life depended on it.

Cice wants the American public to see the almost 5,000 coffins containing dead military from Iraq. Cice also claims to be able to read Bush's mind. Tell you what, Cice, get a court order to exhume and open all those coffins so you and the rest of the covetousliberals can videotape them and celibrate them to your hearts' content.

Sick

It's not sick, it's reality. You don't think the American people deserve to know the truth. I do.

It is most certainly sick!

The American people know the truth about how many military have been killed in Iraq. The American people, excluding the covetousliberals among us, do not require the coffins of the military dead to be videotaped so they can obsess over coffin displays

Coffins and caskets and bodies are shown at funerals for a reason; to remember the dead.

All the coffins and caskets and bodies were shown at funerals for each of our dead military to remember the dead.

Want those funerals videotaped so you can obsess over each coffin. Go videotape them. No one will stop you.

The GOP would have us forget the Iraq war dead. They don't want people to think about or know the Iraq war dead. They certainly don't want people to accept their deaths; they want them to be hidden, to stay out of sight.

Cyclotichorn

What is more telling about ican, McG, et al, is the simple fact that they've lost site of "freedom of the press." They agree to the secrecy of this administration and all the laws they have broken; unlawful wiretaps, torture, ignore habeas corpus, and the revelation of a CIA agent. They have no concern about our Constitution or Bill of Rights - to save us from ourselves. What BS!

When they are sworn into office, they must promise to protect the Constitution - with their hand on the bible; which they have all broken.

Article I, Section 9. The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it.

Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger

It's not sick. It's a realistic look at the cost of war.

And people don't know it. If you asked the average person to tell how many were killed in Iraq this year so far, they would have no clue. The news certainly doesn't report on it anymore.

Not that I expect any other answer from you, perhaps the biggest warmongering hack on this board, Ican. Nobody wants to gloat over coffins; but they were never hidden like this in the past. This is a new policy designed to keep people away from the cost of war as much as possible.

Cycloptichorn

Cycloptichorn wrote:

It's not sick. It's a realistic look at the cost of war.

And people don't know it. If you asked the average person to tell how many were killed in Iraq this year so far, they would have no clue. The news certainly doesn't report on it anymore.

Not that I expect any other answer from you, perhaps the biggest warmongering hack on this board, Ican. Nobody wants to gloat over coffins; but they were never hidden like this in the past. This is a new policy designed to keep people away from the cost of war as much as possible.

Cycloptichorn

Cyc, you are excreting nonsense!

The American people who care do know from radio and TV news how many military were killed in Iraq to date.

The coffins of the military are not hidden until they are buried. They are visible and videotapable at their funerals.

There is no public danger requiring the suspension of habeus corpus. Those rules were written for times of imminent disaster or invasion, which is nothing like what we face today. What a crock of **** you are peddling, ICan.

Cycloptichorn

...
It's pointless to continue this discussion with you unless you answer the following question:

Do you admit that the policy on photographing soldier's coffins has changed under Bush, and it does not resemble the earlier policy?

Cycloptchorn

Cycloptichorn wrote:

There is no public danger requiring the suspension of habeus corpus. Those rules were written for times of imminent disaster or invasion, which is nothing like what we face today. What a crock of **** you are peddling, ICan.

Cycloptichorn

Ah ha! You have personally obtained al-Qaeda's assurance they would not mass murder non-murderers in America after September 11, 2001.

Have you reported and provided a videotape of your conversation with al-Qaeda leaders to the federal government? If not please do so as quickly as possible!

ican711nm wrote:

Cycloptichorn wrote:

There is no public danger requiring the suspension of habeus corpus. Those rules were written for times of imminent disaster or invasion, which is nothing like what we face today. What a crock of **** you are peddling, ICan.

Cycloptichorn

Ah ha! You have personally obtained al-Qaeda's assurance they would not mass murder non-murderers in America after September 11, 2001.

Have you reported and provided a videotape of your conversation with al-Qaeda leaders to the federal government? If not please do so as quickly as possible!

Terrorists could attack us at any point in the future; they will ALWAYS be able to do so, even if we defeat AQ. That's not justification for suspension of habeus corpus, and no serious Constitutional Scholar believes it is, Ican.

Potential threats are not the same as ACTUAL threats.

Cycloptichorn

Iraq govt calls for calm as Kirkuk row intensifies

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Iraq's government called for calm on Friday to dampen a bitter row over the status of Kirkuk, a day after Kurdish councilors called for the city to become part of the largely autonomous region of Kurdistan.

The government rejected the move, insisting control of the disputed oil-rich city in northern Iraq would be decided through political consensus with the city's other ethnic groups.

Thursday's decision by Kurdish councilors at a provincial council meeting was symbolic because other factions boycotted the session. The council's head, himself a Kurd, also noted the call was unconstitutional.

But tensions have been rising over the city's fate, with demonstrators taking to the streets several times this week.

"The Iraqi government calls upon all parties and factions to be calm, wise and to resort to the constitution," a statement from government spokesman Ali al-Dabbagh said.

He said all sides should not allow Iraq's "enemies" to make use of the situation. Al Qaeda has sought to exploit the divisions in the city to fan tensions.

A suicide bomber killed 23 people at a rally in Kirkuk on Monday against a provincial elections law that would delay voting in the city, a mix of Kurds, Arabs and ethnic Turkmen.

The prime minister of neighboring Turkey, Tayyip Erdogan, told Iraq's President Jalal Talabani late on Thursday of his "anxiety" over the Kurdish councilors' call.

Kurds consider Kirkuk -- which sits atop one of Iraq's key oil producing areas -- their ancient capital, but Arabs and Turkmen want the city to stay under central government control.

It lies just outside the largely autonomous Kurdistan region. The Kurdish councilors on Kirkuk's provincial council want the city and the surrounding province -- which some Iraqis also call Kirkuk -- to be included in Kurdistan.

The United States also expressed concern about the tensions.

"Individuals or groups in Kirkuk should avoid any sort of unilateral or provocative action ... And what is needed is passage of a provincial election law," U.S. State Department spokesman Sean McCormack told reporters on Thursday.

The electoral law outlines procedures for provincial elections due to be held late this year or early 2009, but political wrangling over Kirkuk has delayed its ratification.

The bill would have delayed voting in Kirkuk, fixed seat allocations to each ethnic group and replaced Kurdish Peshmerga security forces with soldiers from other parts of Iraq, all measures Kurds reject.

Kurdish deputies boycotted a parliamentary session that passed the provincial elections law late last month, prompting Talabani, a Kurd, to reject the bill on grounds it was passed in the absence of a major parliamentary faction.

The bill has now returned to parliament, where lawmakers must reach a compromise. Parliamentarians will hold a special session on Sunday to try to resolve their differences after parliament broke for its summer recess on Wednesday.

The New York Times carries an interesting piece about a book on war surgery in Iraq and Afghanistan that is hard to find in shops in the US because it carries gruesome pictures: shredded limbs, burnt faces, profusely bleeding wounds.

"I'm ashamed to say that there were folks even in the medical department who said, 'Over my dead body will American civilians see this,'" Dr David Lounsbury, one of the book's three authors, told the paper.

To Heal the Wounded