THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, ELEVENTH THREAD

Well, when you're in charge of running a war, Cyclop, I presume then that you will type out your plans in triplicate and fax over a copy to Al Qaida or whomever? I suppose that is a plan.

. . . .Mr. Obama reiterated yesterday that he would consult with U.S. commanders and the Iraqi government and "make tactical adjustments as we implement this strategy." However, as Mr. McCain quickly pointed out, he delivered his speech before traveling to Iraq -- before his meetings with Gen. David H. Petraeus and the Iraqi leadership. American commanders will probably tell Mr. Obama that from a logistical standpoint, a 16-month withdrawal timetable will be difficult, if not impossible, to fulfill. Iraqis will say that a pullout that is not negotiated with the government and disregards the readiness of Iraqi troops will be a gift to al-Qaeda and other enemies. If Mr. Obama really intends to listen to such advisers, why would he lock in his position in advance?

"What's missing in our debate," Mr. Obama said yesterday, "is a discussion of the strategic consequences of Iraq." Indeed: The message that the Democrat sends is that he is ultimately indifferent to the war's outcome -- that Iraq "distracts us from every threat we face" and thus must be speedily evacuated regardless of the consequences. That's an irrational and ahistorical way to view a country at the strategic center of the Middle East, with some of the world's largest oil reserves. . . .

Since Fox and company doesn't like the simple fact that Bush lied about leaving Iraq when asked is now saying that maybe Bush and Malaki have a secret pact of some kind outside of what is today's common knowledge.

If you don't like what you hear, make sure it's a secret. ROTL

ican711nm wrote:

If the Iraq government wants a timetable for USA departure, it should establish its own timetable for when they want the USA military to leave Iraq. Its their country and they have the complete right and authority to decide the timetable by which the USA must leave Iraq. That is not the USA's decision to make.

However, if the USA government were to want to leave Iraq before the Iraq government timetable says to leave, that is the USA's decision to make.

What is the Iraq government's timetable for the USA to leave? Their failure to specify that timetable implies they don't really want us to leave for a while.

I hope I'm wrong!

I rarely disagree with you on this kind of stuff Ican, so indulge me this once. I don't think President Bush should agree to Maliki's timetable either. at least publicly. He could certainly take one under advisement, but he should not agree to put our last remaining troops in Iraq at significantly higher risk by announcing that our presence there will become progressively weaker and here's the timetable for how it happens.

Good point! On the otherhand Bush has repeatedly said we would leave when asked to leave. So while there should not be any public statement regarding our specific departure timetable, there should be an unwavering commitment on our part to leave as safely and as quickly as we can when asked to do so..

Actually none of us have a clue what President Bush and President Maliki discuss and/or negotiate in private or what the finer points of the game plan is. And in time of war, that is exactly how it should be.

That's another good point! But again, when we're asked to leave, we must leave as safely and as quickly as we can.

Wrong, wrong and wrong; the insurgents do not care one iota how and when we leave Iraq. However, it matters to us how we leave, because we must do it in a manner that minimizes casualties of our own troops during our departure.

Iraq is a basket case; it's been one for some 1,500 years. That's not going to change whether we stay or leave. The tribes of Iraq will continue their war sooner or later; it's only a matter of time.

Foxfyre wrote:

ican711nm wrote:

If the Iraq government wants a timetable for USA departure, it should establish its own timetable for when they want the USA military to leave Iraq. Its their country and they have the complete right and authority to decide the timetable by which the USA must leave Iraq. That is not the USA's decision to make.

However, if the USA government were to want to leave Iraq before the Iraq government timetable says to leave, that is the USA's decision to make.

What is the Iraq government's timetable for the USA to leave? Their failure to specify that timetable implies they don't really want us to leave for a while.

I hope I'm wrong!

I rarely disagree with you on this kind of stuff Ican, so indulge me this once. I don't think President Bush should agree to Maliki's timetable either. at least publicly. He could certainly take one under advisement, but he should not agree to put our last remaining troops in Iraq at significantly higher risk by announcing that our presence there will become progressively weaker and here's the timetable for how it happens.

Good point! On the otherhand Bush has repeatedly said we would leave when asked to leave. So while there should not be any public statement regarding our specific departure timetable, there should be an unwavering commitment on our part to leave as safely and as quickly as we can when asked to do so..

Actually none of us have a clue what President Bush and President Maliki discuss and/or negotiate in private or what the finer points of the game plan is. And in time of war, that is exactly how it should be.

That's another good point! But again, when we're asked to leave, we must leave as safely and as quickly as we can.

"Maliki has no reason to doubt that President Bush would not keep his word and take the US troops home if Maliki requested that. If Maliki wanted that, he would request it. He hasn't."

Wrong, wrong and wrong; the insurgents do not care one iota how and when we leave Iraq. However, it matters to us how we leave, because we must do it in a manner that minimizes casualties of our own troops during our departure.

Iraq is a basket case; it's been one for some 1,500 years. That's not going to change whether we stay or leave. The tribes of Iraq will continue their war sooner or later; it's only a matter of time.

cicerone imposter wrote:

Wrong, wrong and wrong; the insurgents do not care one iota how and when we leave Iraq. However, it matters to us how we leave, because we must do it in a manner that minimizes casualties of our own troops during our departure.

Iraq is a basket case; it's been one for some 1,500 years. That's not going to change whether we stay or leave. The tribes of Iraq will continue their war sooner or later; it's only a matter of time.

ci, we sent a man to the moon, this is now the 21st century, don't you think it is conceivable that Iraq could change. The whole world is changing pretty dramatically, I would say, over the last 100 years, 50 years, the last 20 years. What happened in Iraq 1500 years ago does not need to keep happening. With mass communications, every corner of the world can now see the dawn of a different day. I hope it is truly better, but I am not so sure, but certainly the potential is there for people all over the world to awaken to a better way of doing things.

TUCSON, July 18 -- President Bush and Iraq's prime minister have agreed to set a "time horizon" for the withdrawal of U.S. combat troops from Iraq as security conditions in the war-ravaged nation continue to improve, White House officials said here Friday.

The agreement, reached during a video conference Thursday between Bush and Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, marks a dramatic shift for the Bush administration, which for years has condemned any talk of timetables for withdrawal.

The agreement, reached during a video conference Thursday between Bush and Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, marks a dramatic shift for the Bush administration, which for years has condemned any talk of timetables for withdrawal.

Quote:

TUCSON, July 18 -- President Bush and Iraq's prime minister have agreed to set a "time horizon" for the withdrawal of U.S. combat troops from Iraq as security conditions in the war-ravaged nation continue to improve, White House officials said here Friday.

The agreement, reached during a video conference Thursday between Bush and Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, marks a dramatic shift for the Bush administration, which for years has condemned any talk of timetables for withdrawal.

...
Cycloptichorn

Quote:

TUCSON, July 18 -- President Bush and Iraq's prime minister have agreed to set a "time horizon" for the withdrawal of U.S. combat troops from Iraq as security conditions in the war-ravaged nation continue to improve, White House officials said here Friday.

The agreement, reached during a video conference Thursday between Bush and Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, marks a dramatic shift for the Bush administration, which for years has condemned any talk of timetables for withdrawal.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/18/AR2008071801308.html?hpid=topnews

When you aren't politically allowed to call it a 'timeline,' but the other side insists on one, you make up a fancy name for it, such as 'time horizon.'

You Conservatives must be so pissed at Bush right now, he's selling out the positions you have been trying so damn hard to defend here on A2K for years: agreeing to timelines, putting diplomats into Iran to negotiate; this is all stuff you have railed against forever! Where's the criticism of Bush for his surrender?

Cycloptichorn

"In the area of security cooperation, the president and the prime minister agreed that improving conditions should allow for the agreements now under negotiation to include a general time horizon for meeting aspirational goals," the statement said. It said those goals include turning over more control to Iraqi security forces and "the further reduction of U.S. combat forces from Iraq."

The statement continued: "The president and prime minister agreed that the goals would be based on continued improving conditions on the ground and not an arbitrary date for withdrawal."

The White House statement said the accords under negotiation are intended to "establish a normalized bilateral relationship between Iraq and the United States."