9
   

THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, ELEVENTH THREAD

 
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Jun, 2008 10:20 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
Bush is pushing a funny kind of democracy on Iraq; it's our way, or ....

It's our way or their way! What is our way? We command our military and you command yours, or we leave.

Please, please, Mr. Maliki, ask us to leave by the end of the year rather than give in to our way. After all, you are a democracy and are FREE to make that choice.
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jun, 2008 09:06 pm
Yaman Mohammad, a 15-year-old Sunni, said any deal between the Iraqi and US governments was bound to be unfair. “This is a negotiation of the weak and the strong. The Americans already control things and they will make sure they continue to do so.

“The Americans are here as occupiers and I am certain they want to remain here as occupiers. No independent Iraqi government can accept that, and no real Iraqi government would agree that American soldiers can arrest Iraqis.”

Yaman, who studies at Hurriya High School in Baghdad’s Palestine Street, said he was against any deal that kept US troops on the ground in Iraq

“All the time these things happen, Iraq is not a real state. If an agreement is signed, it will just be an Iraqi seal on the occupation. We will not recognise it as legal.”

http://www.thenational.ae/article/20080614/FOREIGN/934348083/1011/NEWS
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jun, 2008 09:22 pm
The plight of Iraqi refugees is now worse than ever, with millions struggling to survive in desperate conditions and with little hope of finding sanctuary.


[/B]
Many governments have attempted to justify their hardline stance by citing supposed improvements in the security situation in Iraq. But after a marked decline, the level of violence is rising again. The numbers killed each month fell from 1,800 in August 2007 to 541 in January 2008. However, in March and April alone, more than 2,000 people, mostly civilians, died during clashes between US and Iraqi government forces and the Shia militia Mehdi Army.

The Iraqi diaspora is now one of the largest in modern times, with more than two million people fleeing abroad. But the ferocious strife and the breakdown in law and order have led to another wave of about 2.7 million fleeing their homes but unable to escape the country. Many of these have moved to Baghdad, putting further strain on a shattered infrastructure and adding to the city's sectarian tensions. The situation in terms of numbers and conditions for the displaced people has deteriorated dramatically in the past two years, Amnesty claims.



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/iraqi-refugee-crisis-grows-as-west-turns-its-back-847473.html
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Jun, 2008 09:51 pm
"We were engaged to be married after the end of the war," Hussam Abdulla, a 28-year-old engineer from Baghdad told IPS.
"We thought the war would not last more than a month, and so we planned our marriage for May 2003.
But everything went wrong.
I was detained for two years, and my fiancée's family had to flee to Egypt because her father was a senior army officer whose life was threatened first by occupation forces and later by death squads."

Abdulla's engagement never led to marriage.

http://www.antiwar.com/ips/fadhily.php?articleid=12993
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2008 11:34 am
Ramafuchs wrote:
Yaman Mohammad, a 15-year-old Sunni, said any deal between the Iraqi and US governments was bound to be unfair. “This is a negotiation of the weak and the strong. The Americans already control things and they will make sure they continue to do so.

“The Americans are here as occupiers and I am certain they want to remain here as occupiers. No independent Iraqi government can accept that, and no real Iraqi government would agree that American soldiers can arrest Iraqis.”

Yaman, who studies at Hurriya High School in Baghdad’s Palestine Street, said he was against any deal that kept US troops on the ground in Iraq

“All the time these things happen, Iraq is not a real state. If an agreement is signed, it will just be an Iraqi seal on the occupation. We will not recognise it as legal.”

http://www.thenational.ae/article/20080614/FOREIGN/934348083/1011/NEWS

It's the US government way (we command US troops),or the Iraq government way (they command US troops)! If it's the US way we stay. If it's the Iraq way we leave.

Please, please, Mr. Maliki, ask us to leave by the end of the year rather than give in to our way. After all, you are a democracy and are FREE to make that choice.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2008 11:36 am
Ramafuchs wrote:
The plight of Iraqi refugees is now worse than ever, with millions struggling to survive in desperate conditions and with little hope of finding sanctuary.


[/B]
Many governments have attempted to justify their hardline stance by citing supposed improvements in the security situation in Iraq. But after a marked decline, the level of violence is rising again. The numbers killed each month fell from 1,800 in August 2007 to 541 in January 2008. However, in March and April alone, more than 2,000 people, mostly civilians, died during clashes between US and Iraqi government forces and the Shia militia Mehdi Army.

The Iraqi diaspora is now one of the largest in modern times, with more than two million people fleeing abroad. But the ferocious strife and the breakdown in law and order have led to another wave of about 2.7 million fleeing their homes but unable to escape the country. Many of these have moved to Baghdad, putting further strain on a shattered infrastructure and adding to the city's sectarian tensions. The situation in terms of numbers and conditions for the displaced people has deteriorated dramatically in the past two years, Amnesty claims.



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/iraqi-refugee-crisis-grows-as-west-turns-its-back-847473.html

It's the US government way (we command US troops),or the Iraq government way (they command US troops)! If it's the US way we stay. If it's the Iraq way we leave.

Please, please, Mr. Maliki, ask us to leave by the end of the year rather than give in to our way. After all, you are a democracy and are FREE to make that choice.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2008 11:37 am
Ramafuchs wrote:
"We were engaged to be married after the end of the war," Hussam Abdulla, a 28-year-old engineer from Baghdad told IPS.
"We thought the war would not last more than a month, and so we planned our marriage for May 2003.
But everything went wrong.
I was detained for two years, and my fiancée's family had to flee to Egypt because her father was a senior army officer whose life was threatened first by occupation forces and later by death squads."

Abdulla's engagement never led to marriage.

http://www.antiwar.com/ips/fadhily.php?articleid=12993

It's the US government way (we command US troops),or the Iraq government way (they command US troops)! If it's the US way we stay. If it's the Iraq way we leave.

Please, please, Mr. Maliki, ask us to leave by the end of the year rather than give in to our way. After all, you are a democracy and are FREE to make that choice.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2008 01:31 pm
am i hearing an echo ? Laughing
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2008 01:43 pm
Wow, I agree with Ican.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2008 02:03 pm
I don't believe I'm saying this, but I agree with ican.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2008 02:46 pm
Shocked
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2008 02:49 pm
Shocked Shocked Shocked Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2008 04:09 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Shocked Shocked Shocked Rolling Eyes

Laughing
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2008 04:21 pm
Indeed. ICAN set a target for "the murders of non-murderers by murdurers" of something like 30 a month. He seems to believe we have met that goal, so we can all decree victory and come home.
I wish it were that easy. We will still be there for years.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2008 06:41 pm
realjohnboy wrote:
Indeed. ICAN set a target for "the murders of non-murderers by murdurers" of something like 30 a month. He seems to believe we have met that goal, so we can all decree victory and come home.
I wish it were that easy. We will still be there for years.

Actually, the target I set for when the Iraq government could protect the Iraq people without our help, was less than 30 such murders per day, not less than 30 per month. That target has been met for the last couple of months. So if that target continues to be met through the end of 2008, the US should "get out'a Dodge"--oops, get ot of Iraq by the end of 2008.
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Jun, 2008 06:58 pm
I stand corrected, Ican, on the 30 per day vs month. Nothing intended there. Sloppy writing on my part. -rjb-
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jun, 2008 12:22 pm
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/18/world/middleeast/18iraq.html?hp

Quote:
At Least 51 Dead in Baghdad Bombing


Well, this day's goal of only 30 dead is shot, I guess.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jun, 2008 01:10 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/18/world/middleeast/18iraq.html?hp

Quote:
At Least 51 Dead in Baghdad Bombing


Well, this day's goal of only 30 dead is shot, I guess.

Cycloptichorn

Damn! Crying or Very sad

By the way, the goal I stated is less than 30 such murders per day.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jun, 2008 01:45 pm
ican, Don't set your goals too low; 30 per day equals 900/month. You sure about that?
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 17 Jun, 2008 02:32 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
ican, Don't set your goals too low; 30 per day equals 900/month. You sure about that?

Yes! The Iraq government should be able to reduce that further without US help.

By the way, LESS than 30 per day is also LESS than 10,950 per year.

What goals do you recommend?
0 Replies
 
 

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