THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, ELEVENTH THREAD

Yes, the Taliban Pashtuns are Sunni, but that hasn't stopped Iran from sending them arms since 2007.

Joe(What? These are CARE packages.)Nation

Quote:

BAGHDAD, June 10 -- High-level negotiations over the future role of the U.S. military in Iraq have turned into an increasingly acrimonious public debate, with Iraqi politicians denouncing what they say are U.S. demands to maintain nearly 60 bases in their country indefinitely.

Top Iraqi officials are calling for a radical reduction of the U.S. military's role here after the U.N. mandate authorizing its presence expires at the end of this year. Encouraged by recent Iraqi military successes, government officials have said that the United States should agree to confine American troops to military bases unless the Iraqis ask for their assistance, with some saying Iraq might be better off without them.

"The Americans are making demands that would lead to the colonization of Iraq," said Sami al-Askari, a senior Shiite politician on parliament's foreign relations committee who is close to Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki. "If we can't reach a fair agreement, many people think we should say, 'Goodbye, U.S. troops. We don't need you here anymore.' "

Congress has grown increasingly restive over the negotiations, which would produce a status of forces agreement setting out the legal rights and responsibilities of U.S. troops in Iraq and a broader "security framework" defining the political and military relationship between the two countries. Senior lawmakers of both parties have demanded more information and questioned the Bush administration's insistence that no legislative approval is required.

source

foxfrye wrote:

Quote:

Well your side has the Congressional oversight. So if there is money being allocated for permanent bases in Iraq it is their doing. Are they all liars?

reply:

Quote:

WASHINGTON - President Bush this week declared that he has the power to bypass four laws, including a prohibition against using federal funds to establish permanent US military bases in Iraq, that Congress passed as part of a new defense bill.

source

That doesn't stop them from attempting to demonize the President of course and attempting to blame everything wrong on him and try to make it look like it isn't any of their doings. And much of the time that tactic works. There are plenty of people out there gullible enough to think the President can do things like that all by himself and the MSM is more than willing to encourage that gullibility.

Again....since there seems to be a focus or reading comprehension problem here....if Congress doesn't want our continued presence in Iraq, all it has to do is pull the funding. If it doesn't want US bases in Iraq, all it has to do is refuse to pay for them. The President cannot spend a single penny from the treasury without consent of Congress.

He cannot 'move around money' without authorization from Congress. If Congress votes to withhold funding for Iraq projects, the President cannot use money for Iraq projects. If Congress has a problem with whatever 'bases' are being constructed in Iraq it can stop the cash flow cold with a simple up or down vote.

He cannot 'move around money' without authorization from Congress. If Congress votes to withhold funding for Iraq projects, the President cannot use money for Iraq projects. If Congress has a problem with whatever 'bases' are being constructed in Iraq it can stop the cash flow cold with a simple up or down vote.

Some people just can't get it through their brains that the US that represents only five percent of the world population can't go around helping all the countries with despots or tyrants with our war machine.

We don't have the treasure, manpower, or any means to push our agenda onto the world stage that we dislike. It's called simple math.
Some people will never understand logistics.

Good intentions can't translate into reality through myopia.

Ironically, most of the soldiers killed belonged to the Frontier Corps, a paramilitary group that the US army has started to train in Pakistan as part of its anti-militancy drive.
"This puts the whole issue into jeopardy," said Aziz. "You have one part of the American forces training the FC; then the other part across the border is killing them."

The true reality, repeatedly missed by those who are truly handicapped by "myopia," is that the US is at present helping only two "countries with despots or tyrants with our war machine." Those two countries, Afghanistan and Iraq, happened to be the two countries in which al-Qaeda found sanctuary and grew.

ican, Bush helped al quida establish themselves into Iraq. Before then, they were almost an unknown problem.

1. MALARKEY!

You're poor in history,

MALARKEY!

and the common knowledge of Bush's mismanagement of the war.

I AGREE THAT BUSH MISMANAGED THE WAR!

You're a hopeless Bushite.

2. MALARKEY!

ican711nm wrote:

The true reality, repeatedly missed by those who are truly handicapped by "myopia," is that the US is at present helping only two "countries with despots or tyrants with our war machine." Those two countries, Afghanistan and Iraq, happened to be the two countries in which al-Qaeda found sanctuary and grew.

Two? Hah!

Yes, there are two countries that we are currently helping rid themselves of al-Qaeda with our war machine. All the rest of the countries you list below are not beiing helped by the US war machine to rid themselves of al-Qaeda.


Saudi Arabia
Indonesia
The Philippines
Yemen
Somalia
Pakistan
Egypt
Sudan
Libya
All have stronger Al Queda organizations that the former one in Afghanistan, though none are as officially tolerated by the particular governments as the Taliban did there. The "former one" is perhaps the wrong description because there is still no indication that it is not still operating as it always did.

There are probably more Al Queda in Spain presently than there were in Iraq prior to the invasion. The same could be said for Britain. Shall we send the Marines??

Islam has no need of sanctuary or government sanction.

Al Qaeda has need of sanctuary (i.e., sanctuaries in each country in which it exists), but it has no need of government sanction!

Joe(It makes it's own.)Nation

cicerone imposter wrote:

ican, Bush helped al quida establish themselves into Iraq. Before then, they were almost an unknown problem.

1. MALARKEY!

You're poor in history,

MALARKEY!

and the common knowledge of Bush's mismanagement of the war.

I AGREE THAT BUSH MISMANAGED THE WAR!

You're a hopeless Bushite.

2. MALARKEY!

1. 300 Al-Qaeda members that fled from Afghanistan, established itself in northeastern Iraq in December 2001. Their number more than quadrupled by March 2003 when the USA invaded Iraq.

2. I am not a Bushite, hopeless or otherwise. Your accusation is slander.

Generally, almost all of your posted past and present accusations are at best irrational.

ican711nm wrote:

cicerone imposter wrote:

ican, Bush helped al quida establish themselves into Iraq. Before then, they were almost an unknown problem.

1. MALARKEY!

...

Malarkey is not an acceptable response; you must challenge the statement from credible sources. You are the "malarkey" of a2k; you only provide personal opionion without any foundation.

Follow you own rule! You alleged: "Bush helped al quida establish themselves into Iraq. Before then, they were almost an unknown problem."

You did not provide your "foundation" to support that assertion.

But what the hell! That's your usual behavior.

I have provided multiple posts with evidence to support my assertion that al-Qaeda was in Iraq and growing rapidly before the US invaded Iraq.

For example:

Congress wrote:

Congress's Joint Resolution Oct. 16, 2002
Public Law 107-243 107th Congress Joint Resolution (H.J. Res. 114) To authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against Iraq.
...
[10th]Whereas members of al Qaida, an organization bearing responsibility for attacks on the United States, its citizens, and interests, including the attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, are known to be in Iraq;

[11 th]Whereas Iraq continues to aid and harbor other international terrorist organizations, including organizations that threaten the lives and safety of United States citizens;
…

Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, 09/08/2006, wrote:

Congressional Intelligence Report 09/08/2006
Postwar information indicates that the Intelligence Community accurately assessed that al-Qa'ida affiliate group Ansar al-Islam operated in Kurdish-controlled northeastern Iraq

Wikipedia wrote:

Ansar-al-Islam
Ansar al-Islam was formed in December 2001.
...
Ansar al-Islam comprised about 300 armed men, many of these veterans from the Afghan war, and a proportion being neither Kurd nor Arab. Ansar al-Islam is alleged to be connected to al-Qaeda, and provided an entry point for Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and other Afghan veterans to enter Iraq.

Colin Powell wrote:

Speech to UN February 5, 2003
When our coalition ousted the Taliban, the Zarqawi network helped establish another poison and explosive training center camp, and this camp is located in northeastern Iraq.
...

General Franks, describing the Iraq invasion he led in March 2003, wrote:

American Soldier, page 519, by General Tommy Franks, 7/1/2004
"10" Regan Books, An Imprint of HarperCollins Publishers
... a steep valley in far northeastern Iraq, right on the border with Iran. These were the camps of the Ansar al-Isla terrorists, where al Qaeda leader Abu Musab Zarqawi had trained disciples in the use of chemical and biological weapons

Wikipedia wrote:

ANSAR AL-ISLAM
Ansar al-Islam (Supporters or Partisans of Islam) is a Kurdish Sunni Islamist group, promoting a radical interpretation of Islam and holy war. At the beginning of the 2003 invasion of Iraq it controlled about a dozen villages and a range of peaks in northern Iraq on the Iranian border. It has used tactics such as suicide bombers in its conflicts with the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan and other Kurdish groups.

Ansar al-Islam was formed in December 2001 as a merger of Jund al-Islam (Soldiers of Islam), led by Abu Abdallah al-Shafi'i, and a splinter group from the Islamic Movement in Kurdistan led by Mullah Krekar. Krekar became the leader of the merged Ansar al-Islam, which opposed an agreement made between IMK and the dominant Kurdish group in the area, Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK).

Ansar al-Islam fortified a number of villages along the Iranian border, with Iranian artillery support.[1] Ansar al-Islam quickly initiated a number of attacks on the peshmerga (armed forces) of the PUK, on one occasion massacring 53 prisoners and beheading them. Several assassination attempts on leading PUK-politicians were also made with carbombs and snipers.