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THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, ELEVENTH THREAD

 
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 May, 2008 10:26 am
ican711nm wrote:
Among other things, Bush believed that al-Qaeda had found sanctuary in Iraq before the US invaded Iraq, just as Bush believed al-Qaeda had found sanctuary in Afghanistan before the US invaded Afghanistan.

Unlike some other of Bush's particular beliefs, these particular Bush beliefs turned out to be true.


No, it didn't. None of what are considered the 'leadership' of AQ were there at all. Just a few pawns. What a colossal waste of time over a few pawns, while ignoring the power pieces.

I bet you really suck at chess, Ican

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 May, 2008 10:29 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
ican711nm wrote:
Among other things, Bush believed that al-Qaeda had found sanctuary in Iraq before the US invaded Iraq, just as Bush believed al-Qaeda had found sanctuary in Afghanistan before the US invaded Afghanistan.

Unlike some other of Bush's particular beliefs, these particular Bush beliefs turned out to be true.


No, it didn't. None of what are considered the 'leadership' of AQ were there at all. Just a few pawns. What a colossal waste of time over a few pawns, while ignoring the power pieces.

I bet you really suck at chess, Ican

Cycloptichorn


Chess? I think he stinks at chinese checkers.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 May, 2008 11:52 am
Meanwhile, back at the ranch, receiving little attention from the press and no mention whatsoever from those who want to cut and run in Iraq:


U.S. Cites Big Gains Against Al-Qaeda
Group Is Facing Setbacks Globally, CIA Chief Says

By Joby Warrick
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, May 30, 2008; A01



Less than a year after his agency warned of new threats from a resurgent al-Qaeda, CIA Director Michael V. Hayden now portrays the terrorist movement as essentially defeated in Iraq and Saudi Arabia and on the defensive throughout much of the rest of the world, including in its presumed haven along the Afghanistan-Pakistan border.

In a strikingly upbeat assessment, the CIA chief cited major gains against al-Qaeda's allies in the Middle East and an increasingly successful campaign to destabilize the group's core leadership.

While cautioning that al-Qaeda remains a serious threat, Hayden said Osama bin Laden is losing the battle for hearts and minds in the Islamic world and has largely forfeited his ability to exploit the Iraq war to recruit adherents. Two years ago, a CIA study concluded that the U.S.-led war had become a propaganda and marketing bonanza for al-Qaeda, generating cash donations and legions of volunteers.

All that has changed, Hayden said in an interview with The Washington Post this week that coincided with the start of his third year at the helm of the CIA.

"On balance, we are doing pretty well," he said, ticking down a list of accomplishments: "Near strategic defeat of al-Qaeda in Iraq. Near strategic defeat for al-Qaeda in Saudi Arabia. Significant setbacks for al-Qaeda globally -- and here I'm going to use the word 'ideologically' -- as a lot of the Islamic world pushes back on their form of Islam," he said.

The sense of shifting tides in the terrorism fight is shared by a number of terrorism experts, though some caution that it is too early to tell whether the gains are permanent. Some credit Hayden and other U.S. intelligence leaders for going on the offensive against al-Qaeda in the area along the Afghanistan-Pakistan border, where the tempo of Predator strikes has dramatically increased from previous years. But analysts say the United States has caught some breaks in the past year, benefiting from improved conditions in Iraq, as well as strategic blunders by al-Qaeda that have cut into its support base.

"One of the lessons we can draw from the past two years is that al-Qaeda is its own worst enemy," said Robert Grenier, a former top CIA counterterrorism official who is now managing director of Kroll, a risk consulting firm. "Where they have succeeded initially, they very quickly discredit themselves."

Others warned that al-Qaeda remains capable of catastrophic attacks and may be even more determined to stage a major strike to prove its relevance. "Al-Qaeda's obituary has been written far too often in the past few years for anyone to declare victory," said Bruce Hoffman, a terrorism expert at Georgetown University. "I agree that there has been progress. But we're indisputably up against a very resilient and implacable enemy."
MORE HERE
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 May, 2008 01:10 pm
"The overwhelming majority of Iraqis in Iraq and outside Iraq wants U.S. troops and mercenaries to leave their country. However, the U.S. refused to abide by international law and respects the Iraqi people rights to self-determination. The stated justification for the ongoing Occupation is that a withdrawal of U.S. troops and mercenaries would result in increased violence. Evidence shows that the Occupation is the source of violence and terror against the Iraqi people."

http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/article_26823.shtml


I too love jeans and jazz and Treasure Island
and Long John Silver's parrot and the terraces of New Orleans.

I love Mark Twain and the Mississippi steamboats and Abraham Lincoln's dogs.
I love the fields of wheat and corn and the smell of Virginia tobacco.
But I am not American.
Is that enough for the Phantom pilot to turn me back to the Stone Age?

I need neither oil, nor America herself, neither the elephant nor the donkey.
Leave me, pilot, leave my house roofed with palm fronds and this wooden bridge.
I need neither your Golden Gate nor your skyscrapers.
I need the village not New York.

Why did you come to me from your Nevada desert, soldier armed to the teeth?
Why did you come all the way to distant Basra where fish used to swim by our doorsteps?
Pigs do not forage here.
I only have these water buffaloes lazily chewing on water lilies.

Leave me alone soldier.
Leave me my floating cane hut and my fishing spear.
Leave me my migrating birds and the green plumes.
Take your roaring iron birds and your Tomahawk missiles.

I am not your foe.
I am the one who wades up to the knees in rice paddies.
Leave me to my curse.
I do not need your day of doom . . .
From America, America by Saadi Youssef (translated by Khaled Mattawa)
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 May, 2008 01:40 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Meanwhile, back at the ranch,


Said Foxy, trying to ignore all that she didn't want to acknowledge.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 May, 2008 01:44 pm
ican711nm wrote:
Among other things, Bush believed that al-Qaeda had found sanctuary in Iraq before the US invaded Iraq, just as Bush believed al-Qaeda had found sanctuary in Afghanistan before the US invaded Afghanistan.

Unlike some other of Bush's particular beliefs, these particular Bush beliefs turned out to be true.


al-Qaeda is an idea, a movement.

Not a global company with an HQ you can target. It doesn't have a "location".

You pathetic numpty.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 May, 2008 02:21 pm
McTag wrote:
ican711nm wrote:
Among other things, Bush believed that al-Qaeda had found sanctuary in Iraq before the US invaded Iraq, just as Bush believed al-Qaeda had found sanctuary in Afghanistan before the US invaded Afghanistan.

Unlike some other of Bush's particular beliefs, these particular Bush beliefs turned out to be true.


al-Qaeda is an idea, a movement.

Not a global company with an HQ you can target. It doesn't have a "location".

You pathetic numpty.


"You pathetic numpty" is spot on!
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 May, 2008 02:23 pm
McTag wrote:
ican711nm wrote:
Among other things, Bush believed that al-Qaeda had found [size=29]sanctuary[/size] in Iraq before the US invaded Iraq, just as Bush believed al-Qaeda had found [size=29]sanctuary[/size] in Afghanistan before the US invaded Afghanistan.

Unlike some other of Bush's particular beliefs, these particular Bush beliefs turned out to be true.


al-Qaeda is an idea, a movement.

Not a global company with an HQ you can target. It doesn't have a "location".

Laughing

[size=7]You pathetic numpty.[/size]
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 May, 2008 02:55 pm
It's funny how that 'idea' or 'movement' with no apparent physical presence or location has the ability to be inspired by our war on terror to recruit and train people. It must all be done through some kind of cosmic spirituality I guess.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 May, 2008 03:03 pm
assmosis.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 May, 2008 03:05 pm
What's so hard to understand?

People have relatives who are dead b/c of our actions; people look for a way to strike back. My guess is that AQ doesn't have to open many recruitment offices in order to have plenty of people people for their purposes.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 May, 2008 03:08 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
It's funny how that 'idea' or 'movement' with no apparent physical presence or location has the ability to be inspired by our war on terror to recruit and train people. It must all be done through some kind of cosmic spirituality I guess.

Smile
Actually, it comes not from a cosmic spirituality, but rather from an earthbound pernicious puddle of putrid puke.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 May, 2008 03:13 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
What's so hard to understand?

People have relatives who are dead b/c of our actions; people look for a way to strike back. My guess is that AQ doesn't have to open many recruitment offices in order to have plenty of people people for their purposes.

Cycloptichorn

Americans, Iraqis, and Afghanistanis have relatives who are dead b/c of al-Qaeda's actions; we all have looked for and found ways to strike back.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 May, 2008 03:19 pm
ican711nm wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
What's so hard to understand?

People have relatives who are dead b/c of our actions; people look for a way to strike back. My guess is that AQ doesn't have to open many recruitment offices in order to have plenty of people people for their purposes.

Cycloptichorn

Americans, Iraqis, and Afghanistanis have relatives who are dead b/c of al-Qaeda's actions; we all have looked for and found ways to strike back.


Yes, this is true.

And so the cycle continues Sad

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 May, 2008 03:34 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
ican711nm wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
What's so hard to understand?

People have relatives who are dead b/c of our actions; people look for a way to strike back. My guess is that AQ doesn't have to open many recruitment offices in order to have plenty of people people for their purposes.

Cycloptichorn

Americans, Iraqis, and Afghanistanis have relatives who are dead b/c of al-Qaeda's actions; we all have looked for and found ways to strike back.


Yes, this is true.

And so the cycle continues Sad

Cycloptichorn

Yes, the cycle continues as long as there continue to be those who blame the victims of the mass murderers of non-murderers instead of the mass murderers of non-murderers.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 May, 2008 03:39 pm
ican711nm wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
ican711nm wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
What's so hard to understand?

People have relatives who are dead b/c of our actions; people look for a way to strike back. My guess is that AQ doesn't have to open many recruitment offices in order to have plenty of people people for their purposes.

Cycloptichorn

Americans, Iraqis, and Afghanistanis have relatives who are dead b/c of al-Qaeda's actions; we all have looked for and found ways to strike back.


Yes, this is true.

And so the cycle continues Sad

Cycloptichorn

Yes, the cycle continues as long as there continue to be those who blame the victims of the mass murderers of non-murderers instead of the mass murderers of non-murderers.


No, the cycle will continue no matter who blames who. That's what happens when you use violence to combat violence.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 May, 2008 03:43 pm
yes , the security situation has improved in iraq , but ... ... it seems advisable to stay INSIDE the green zone if you want to avoid being kidnapped . it's definetely not the place to go for a leisurely walk at any time of the day - not even under heavy protection .


Quote:
Kidnap fears still grip Baghdad

As the families of five British men kidnapped in Baghdad mark a year since their abduction, the BBC's Caroline Wyatt examines the security situation in the Iraqi capital and how dangerous it is for Iraqis and foreign workers.


The security situation in Iraq has undoubtedly improved since last year, when sectarian violence and kidnappings reached new heights after the bitter fighting of 2006.

The US military says violence is down to its lowest levels in four years. However, that does not mean it is safe - for Iraqis or western workers.

There are no official figures for the number of kidnappings here, but estimates suggest that at its worst, up to 30 Iraqis a day were being taken; often for ransom by criminal gangs, many with links to the militias.


The recent improvements came first with the US military surge, and co-operation against Al Qaeda from Sunnis in Anbar province.

Then, in March, the Iraqi government sent its army into Basra city, a force of some 35,000 in total, including police units, to deal with the Shia militias there.

British soldiers have also returned to the streets of Basra, albeit in small numbers, to help mentor the Iraqi army and - where necessary - help to call in air strikes against insurgents.

Bombers and blasts

Over the past weeks, a fragile ceasefire has also held in Sadr City in Baghdad, where followers of the anti-American cleric Moqtada Sadr have, for now, laid down their arms.

It remains unclear though how long the ceasefire may hold.

But western workers remain reluctant to leave the protected Green Zone in the centre of Baghdad.

The heavily-fortified area is home to the Iraqi government, US military headquarters, embassies and the UN - all living behind blast walls and a mass of checkpoints.

Its occupants only venture out amid the tightest security.

And even that does not necessarily protect them against the suicide bombers or roadside blasts that remain a daily part of life in Iraq.


They have made reconstruction and economic renewal in Iraq a slower and more difficult process than it might otherwise have been.


Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/middle_east/7426393.stm

Published: 2008/05/29 17:30:42 GMT



meanwhile ... STAY INSIDE THE GREEN ZONE ...
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 May, 2008 03:43 pm
There are some mindless fools who think not striking back against mass murderers of non-murderers will eventually convince mass murderers of non-murderers to stop mass murderering non-murderers.

Historically, not striking back against mass murderers of non-murderers has encouraged mass murderers of non-murderers to mass murder more non-murderers, not fewer.

The most effective way to end the cycle is to murder all the mass murderers of non-murderers.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 May, 2008 04:07 pm
ican wrote :

Quote:
The most effective way to end the cycle is to murder all the mass murderers of non-murderers.


yea , but you have to leave the green zone for that - not very pleasant , i understand .
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 May, 2008 04:21 pm
ican seems to think all mass murders resides in Iraq; he just doesn't understand world history - past or present.

CLUE #1: Five percent of the world population, the US, is not capable to have a war with all the criminal elements of this world.

CLUE #2: Our war in Iraq has lasted longer than WWII for a misguided goal that Bush and his minions never understood. The reason we continue to have criminals in the US should teach the simplist of minds that crime exists not only in the US, but most parts of this planet. It's a human thing, and a small country like the US cannot be the world's police.
0 Replies
 
 

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