THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, ELEVENTH THREAD

Powerful Iraqi cleric flirting with Shiite militant message

Quote:

Juan Cole has more to say on the situation with links

revel wrote:

Powerful Iraqi cleric flirting with Shiite militant message

Quote:

Juan Cole has more to say on the situation with links

If it were no longer permissible for any Sunni, Shiite, and al-Qaeda persons to mass murder the non-murderers among them and they all also complied with that ruling, it would be time for all the "U.S.-led foreign troops" to leave Iraq.

BAGHDAD - Lawmakers loyal to anti-U.S. cleric Muqtada al-Sadr accused the Iraqi government of trying to crush the movement and warned Saturday of "black clouds" on the horizon for truces that have eased fighting between al-Sadr's militia and security forces.

The Sadrist Movement has heightened its rhetoric against the government in recent days, raising concerns over the cease-fires in the southern city of Basra and Baghdad's Sadr City district, the stronghold of al-Sadr's Mahdi Army militia.

ican711nm wrote:

revel wrote:

Powerful Iraqi cleric flirting with Shiite militant message

Quote:

Juan Cole has more to say on the situation with links

If it were no longer permissible for any Sunni, Shiite, and al-Qaeda persons to mass murder the non-murderers among them and they all also complied with that ruling, it would be time for all the "U.S.-led foreign troops" to leave Iraq.

You forgot to mention the Kurds, they "mass muder the non muderers" of Turkey. By the time all sects in Iraq quit mudering each other and we quit bombing everybody we currently are on the outs with; there will not be enough people left alive to care if we stay or leave.

revel wrote:

ican711nm wrote:

revel wrote:

Powerful Iraqi cleric flirting with Shiite militant message

Quote:

Juan Cole has more to say on the situation with links

If it were no longer permissible for any Sunni, Shiite, and al-Qaeda persons to mass murder the non-murderers among them and they all also complied with that ruling, it would be time for all the "U.S.-led foreign troops" to leave Iraq.

You forgot to mention the Kurds, they "mass muder the non muderers" of Turkey. By the time all sects in Iraq quit mudering each other and we quit bombing everybody we currently are on the outs with; there will not be enough people left alive to care if we stay or leave.

I didn't forget the gangster Kurds. I didn't mention them because the US is not involved in curtailing their attacks on the Turks. The Kurd government and the Turkish government are so far doing a pretty good job cutting down the magnitude of the gangster Kurd terrorism against the Turks.

ican711nm wrote:

revel wrote:

ican711nm wrote:

revel wrote:

Powerful Iraqi cleric flirting with Shiite militant message

Quote:

Juan Cole has more to say on the situation with links

If it were no longer permissible for any Sunni, Shiite, and al-Qaeda persons to mass murder the non-murderers among them and they all also complied with that ruling, it would be time for all the "U.S.-led foreign troops" to leave Iraq.

You forgot to mention the Kurds, they "mass muder the non muderers" of Turkey. By the time all sects in Iraq quit mudering each other and we quit bombing everybody we currently are on the outs with; there will not be enough people left alive to care if we stay or leave.

I didn't forget the gangster Kurds. I didn't mention them because the US is not involved in curtailing their attacks on the Turks. The Kurd government and the Turkish government are so far doing a pretty good job cutting down the magnitude of the gangster Kurd terrorism against the Turks.

In other words, let the Kurds alone from at US standpoint but murder "the murderers of non murders "of Iraq until everybody is dead or marginalized and/or oppressed except the Kurds and a few loyal Iraqi US supporters.

I don't think the Iraqis are going to stand for a long term presence despite Maliki and Crorcker trying to work out a deal for it. Regardless of your toothless edicts of "staying until all murdering...." Too many influential figures inside Iraq do not want it and they have say over Maliki because they control the people.

The reason I keep fighting this kind of a thing is not because I am just a "blame America first crowd" never even heard of it before coming here. But I just object to taking over another country whether we have good intentions (which I don't believe we do) or not and that is how I have seen this effort all along.

Meanwhile Bush keeps naming this effort as some kind of fight for our freedom worth all cost which is such a smear job. Our freedom was never at risk from Iraq in the first place. The cost is upwards 4000 more than the cost of 9/11 which was never connected to Iraq either.

Go ahead and post all those repeated debunked cut and paste rebuttal post you usually do; my statements stands. Our freedom was never at risk excpet as a propaghanda tool for the bush administration and it parrot supporters. I don't care what democrats in congress said before the war they were and are wrong as subsequent reports have proven.

luckily for Iraqis, Ican, you are not the judge of who is murder and who is not. Neither are US (current administration; of which I hope the attitude changes) though we take it upon ourselves to be world's judge and executioner.

revel wrote:

luckily for Iraqis, Ican, you are not the judge of who is murder and who is not. Neither are US (current administration; of which I hope the attitude changes) though we take it upon ourselves to be world's judge and executioner.

Luckily for Iraqis, Revel, you are not the judge of whether or not the Iraqis want the US to continue helping them murder the murderers of non-murderers among them.

Also, the Iraqis appear increasingly capable of determining who are the the murderers of non-murderers in Iraq. Maybe they decide on the basis of who shoots or bombs them.

ican711nm wrote:

revel wrote:

luckily for Iraqis, Ican, you are not the judge of who is murder and who is not. Neither are US (current administration; of which I hope the attitude changes) though we take it upon ourselves to be world's judge and executioner.

Luckily for Iraqis, Revel, you are not the judge of whether or not the Iraqis want the US to continue helping them murder the murderers of non-murderers among them.

Also, the Iraqis appear increasingly capable of determining who are the the murderers of non-murderers in Iraq. Maybe they decide on the basis of who shoots or bombs them.

No; I am not, but the people of Iraqis are and they are opposed to a long term presence and they have expressed disapproval (except the Sunnis who benefited from and Maliki who does anything Bush wants) of the recent bombings of the Sadrist because so many civilians were killed and their towns and cities were further destroyed. All of the people from all sects do not want a long term presence in Iraq which is why Maliki is so afraid of an election in his own country hence going after the Sadrist and most likely is worried about who gets elected in our country. When you have the most influential cleric in Iraq who up to the point has pretty cooperative of the US expressing the sentiments of which he has of late (he disaproved of using the military against them and against a long term presence in Iraq); it is a pretty good indication of the mood of the country either is or will go.

from a blog of the AMERICAN FRIENDS SERVICE COMMITTEE (aka QUAKERS) in december 2005 :

10 Reasons Why the U.S. Must Leave Iraq

read the blog here :

AFSC

10 Reasons Why the U.S. Must Leave Iraq

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The human cost of war is unacceptable.
...
The U.S. occupation is a catalyst for violence.
...
U.S. actions inflame divisions and the chance of civil war.
...
Iraqis want the United States to leave now.
...
Democracy cannot flourish under an occupation.
...
The United States has failed to rebuild Iraq or provide for Iraqis' basic needs.
...
The Iraq war and occupation waste resources needed for U.S. domestic programs.
...
The U.S. occupation of Iraq destabilizes the Middle East.
...
Humanitarian aid is crippled by the occupation.
...
The global community wants the war and occupation to end now.
...
December 2005

For those who still thinks Bush didn't lie or provided erroneous information to the American public about his invastion of Iraq, read the following article by an insider. We know this won't change your mind, but it says a whole lot about those who refuse to acknowledge that Bush is not only dangerous to the world at large, but to all Americans.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080528/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_mcclellan_book_14

"Scott, we now know, is disgruntled about his experience at the White House," she said. "For those of us who fully supported him, before, during and after he was press secretary, we are puzzled. It is sad - this is not the Scott we knew."

cicerone imposter wrote:

For those who still thinks Bush didn't lie or provided erroneous information to the American public about his invastion of Iraq, read the following article by an insider. We know this won't change your mind, but it says a whole lot about those who refuse to acknowledge that Bush is not only dangerous to the world at large, but to all Americans.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080528/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_mcclellan_book_14

Quote:

"Scott, we now know, is disgruntled about his experience at the White House," she said. "For those of us who fully supported him, before, during and after he was press secretary, we are puzzled. It is sad - this is not the Scott we knew."

I conclude Bush did not lie: that is, did not knowingly provide erroneous information to the American public about his invastion of Iraq; but Bush did unknowingly provide erroneous information to the American public about his invastion of Iraq.