THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, ELEVENTH THREAD

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Personally I don't understand how people dying means you care about them. Since we started this offensive with Sadrist; civilians have been getting killed and no one seems to care. It don't matter if they are getting because of the militias or by us (I think it has been both); the point is that civilians are caught in a cross fire yet again. I don't see how our staying there is doing anything but getting people killed for a point I have not understood from the beginning and has really mystified me since this offensive with Sadr started.

Right Ican even though I disagree with your wording, I do not understand who killing people to keep other people from killing people (which they were not doing prior) solves anything. ...

huh?

revel wrote:

Right Ican even though I disagree with your wording, I do not understand who killing people to keep other people from killing people (which they were not doing prior) solves anything. ...

Sunni in power under Saddam were mass murdering Shiite non-murderers prior to our invasion of Iraq.

We are murdering mass murderers to reduce the number of non-murderers those mass murderers would otherwise murder. That solves only one problem: the problem of mass murderers murdering more non-murderers if we did nothing. However, stopping the mass murder of non-murderers by mass murderers is the principal problem to be solved.

Is there a better way to stop mass murderers from mass murdering non-murders, than murdering mass murderers? If there is, please tell me about it.

ican711nm wrote:

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Is there a better way to stop mass murderers from mass murdering non-murders, than murdering mass murderers? If there is, please tell me about it.

Like McCain you can't tell the differences between Sunni and Shiittes.

Mass murderers this week will be allies next week and in the meantime Iraqi civilians keep getting killed either by us (US) or by various Iraqis fighting a power struggle within Iraq. So again; I don't see how killing people is any better than other people killing the same people, they are getting killed either way.

revel wrote:

ican711nm wrote:

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Is there a better way to stop mass murderers from mass murdering non-murders, than murdering mass murderers? If there is, please tell me about it.

Like McCain you can't tell the differences between Sunni and Shiittes.

Mass murderers this week will be allies next week and in the meantime Iraqi civilians keep getting killed either by us (US) or by various Iraqis fighting a power struggle within Iraq. So again; I don't see how killing people is any better than other people killing the same people, they are getting killed either way.

C = non-murderers;
M = mass murderers of C;
S = mass murderers of M.

S murdering M will reduce the number of C murdered now and in future.

Is there a better way to stop M from murdering C, than S murdering all M?

If you think there is, please tell me about it.

ican711nm wrote:

revel wrote:

ican711nm wrote:

...
Is there a better way to stop mass murderers from mass murdering non-murders, than murdering mass murderers? If there is, please tell me about it.

Like McCain you can't tell the differences between Sunni and Shiittes.

Mass murderers this week will be allies next week and in the meantime Iraqi civilians keep getting killed either by us (US) or by various Iraqis fighting a power struggle within Iraq. So again; I don't see how killing people is any better than other people killing the same people, they are getting killed either way.

C = non-murderers;
M = mass murderers of C;
S = mass murderers of M.

S murdering M will reduce the number of C murdered now and in future.

Is there a better way to stop M from murdering C, than S murdering all M?

If you think there is, please tell me about it.

Yea; the better way is just to let them solve their political problems by themselves and we get out from the middle of it all and start concentrating on other neglected issues.

Because we need to start concentrating on other issues. Report and testimonies have said we are stretched too thin and our readiness to respond to other areas is not as well as it could be if we were not using a majority our resources and military in Iraq. This shiite vs. shiite problem is an internal problem and not our problem and needs to be solved by Iraqis working it out between themselves rather than us droping bombs and killing more innocent Iraqis.

BAGHDAD(AP) The leader of al-Qaida in Iraq, Abu Ayyub al-Masri, was arrested in the northern city of Mosul, the Iraqi Defense Ministry spokesman said Thursday. Mohammed al-Askari said the arrest of al-Masri, also known as Abu Hamza al-Muhajir, was confirmed to him by the Iraqi commander of the province. There was no immediate confirmation or comment from U.S. forces.

revel wrote:

Because we need to start concentrating on other issues. Report and testimonies have said we are stretched too thin and our readiness to respond to other areas is not as well as it could be if we were not using a majority our resources and military in Iraq. This shiite vs. shiite problem is an internal problem and not our problem and needs to be solved by Iraqis working it out between themselves rather than us droping bombs and killing more innocent Iraqis.

Revel, thank you for answering my questions.

I guess you think the Sunni versus Shiite problem is pretty well solved, and the remaining Shiite versus Shitte problem is best solved by the Shiites.

Maybe you're right. But I'll withhold my judgment on this for a few more days.

Heres an interesting article in todays news...

Quote:

BAGHDAD(AP) The leader of al-Qaida in Iraq, Abu Ayyub al-Masri, was arrested in the northern city of Mosul, the Iraqi Defense Ministry spokesman said Thursday. Mohammed al-Askari said the arrest of al-Masri, also known as Abu Hamza al-Muhajir, was confirmed to him by the Iraqi commander of the province. There was no immediate confirmation or comment from U.S. forces.

That is good news for Iraq.

ican711nm wrote:

revel wrote:

Because we need to start concentrating on other issues. Report and testimonies have said we are stretched too thin and our readiness to respond to other areas is not as well as it could be if we were not using a majority our resources and military in Iraq. This shiite vs. shiite problem is an internal problem and not our problem and needs to be solved by Iraqis working it out between themselves rather than us droping bombs and killing more innocent Iraqis.

Revel, thank you for answering my questions.

I guess you think the Sunni versus Shiite problem is pretty well solved, and the remaining Shiite versus Shitte problem is best solved by the Shiites.

Maybe you're right. But I'll withhold my judgment on this for a few more days.

I am so pleasantly surprised by this post from you, Ican, thanks, it was refreshing to read.