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THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, ELEVENTH THREAD

 
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Apr, 2008 05:19 pm
Ican
orry if i hurt with your language.

Here's a quotation cited by Mark Twain around the turn of the 19th century. Read it and see if you don't recognize it from today's political discourse:

"Even if the war be wrong we are in it and must fight it out: we cannot retire from it without dishonor."

http://www.lewrockwell.com/reese/reese450.html
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Apr, 2008 06:30 pm
Ramafuchs wrote:
Ican
orry if i hurt with your language.

Here's a quotation cited by Mark Twain around the turn of the 19th century. Read it and see if you don't recognize it from today's political discourse:

"Even if the war be wrong we are in it and must fight it out: we cannot retire from it without dishonor."

http://www.lewrockwell.com/reese/reese450.html

Yes, I recognize it from SOME of today's political discourse.

It's not my discourse.

I want US to stay in Iraq until the Iraqis can defend themselves without our help against those mass murdering and seeking to mass murder the non-murderers among them.
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Apr, 2008 06:33 pm
I beg you sir
i will be immensely pleased if you organize some of the members of A"K to make a three day holiday in Green zone.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Apr, 2008 07:34 pm
Ramafuchs wrote:
I beg you sir
i will be immensely pleased if you organize some of the members of A"K to make a three day holiday in Green zone.

Why?
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Apr, 2008 07:37 pm
I was there to know firsthand information.
I got so perturbed that I canno stay 5 days.
Ask Mysterman who was there
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Apr, 2008 08:28 pm
Ramafuchs wrote:
I was there to know firsthand information.
I got so perturbed that I canno stay 5 days.
Ask Mysterman who was there

You posted: "I beg you sir, i will be immensely pleased if you organize some of the members of A"K to make a three day holiday in Green zone."

I asked you why? You did not answer my question but merely stated you were "so perturbed ..."

I ask you again ... no ... instead ... I'll re-phrase my question: When were you there and why were you so perturbed that you could not stay 5 days?

Alternatively, please answer this question: What is it you saw there that you think continues to be there and I am unaware of or fail to adequately understand or adequately appreciate?
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Apr, 2008 08:34 pm
I was there last year for a short visit . i stayed with my tourist guide.
Iwas fed up with the situations there.
I came backe after 3 days.
It was an emotional days .
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Apr, 2008 08:41 pm
O Once again sir if you organize all the upholders of the destruction of Iraq in this forum, I am ready to waste my energy , money, life.
Please count me the one from Köln to meet in the green zone and not beyond.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Apr, 2008 09:15 pm
Ramafuchs wrote:
O Once again sir if you organize all the upholders of the destruction of Iraq in this forum, I am ready to waste my energy , money, life.
Please count me the one from Köln to meet in the green zone and not beyond.

Again, my dear sir, why do you want me to "organize all the upholders of the destruction of Iraq in this forum ... to meet [you] in the green zone?"

No one in this forum, including me, is an "upholder of the destruction of Iraq"! So you are by implication not inviting anyone in this forum to join you in the green zone!

Please tell us what is it in the green zone that leads you to conclude what?
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Apr, 2008 09:20 pm
Cowards wage war.
Criminals ruin the world.
I will post my experiences .
Thanks
Now it 0527 Am in Köln.
Regards.
Rama
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Apr, 2008 09:34 pm
Ramafuchs wrote:
Cowards wage war.

And brave men and woman courageously strive to defeat those cowards and end the war they are waging.

Criminals ruin the world.

Criminals do not ruin the world, unless we let them. However, they do succeed in making the world less enjoyable while they are being stopped from ruining the world.

I will post my experiences .

Thank you. I will appreciate that

Thanks
Now it 0527 Am in Köln.
Regards.
Rama
I infer
from your repeated failures to tell me why you want me to come to the green zone,
or tell us what is it you think is now in the green zone that leads you to conclude what,
that you have an hypothesis about what my reaction will be if I visit the green zone with you?

In the event that you do have such an hypothesis, please, dear sir, share it with us.

It is now 2230 CDT in Texas. I'm going to bed now.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Apr, 2008 05:48 am
Baghdad Green Zone blasted under cover of storm

Quote:
MILITANTS KILLED

The U.S. military said it killed six militants in air strikes overnight in Sadr City before the weather turned bad in the afternoon. Iraqi police and hospital sources said 10 people were killed and more than 40 wounded overnight there.

"I would like to emphasize that these are not 'violent' clashes, at least not in our definition. They are not protracted gunfights," said U.S. military spokesman Lieutenant-Colonel Steven Stover. "While attacks continue there have been less."

Inside Sadr City, a Reuters reporter said the black-masked fighters who have long prowled the streets were keeping a low profile in response to Sadr's call for them to observe a truce.

"This morning, the Americans entered on foot from the Jamila area. We could have hit them, but we have orders to defend the city against the occupiers but not inside the city," said Abu Jassim, a Mehdi Army street commander. Outside Sadr City a Reuters reporter saw fighters planting a roadside bomb.

The government's confrontation with Sadr's Mehdi Army began a month ago when Shi'ite Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki launched a crackdown on militias in the southern city of Basra.

Despite initial setbacks, the Basra campaign has since proved largely a success, with government troops taking control of neighborhoods once regarded as militia strongholds.

In Sadr City, the cleric's main Baghdad stronghold, U.S. forces have advanced only into a small portion of the slum to put 107 millimeter missiles out of range of the Green Zone.

Fighting and air strikes in the district over the past month have killed hundreds. Food prices have skyrocketed and residents say they feel under siege. Many schools have shut.

Major-General Qassim Moussawi, Iraqi military spokesman for security in the capital, acknowledged civilian casualties were inevitable in fighting in a crowded slum.

"The area of this (Sadr) city is around 25 square kilometers (10 square miles) with an estimated population of 3 million. This means if a bullet is shot, it will hit a person," he said.

Um Aziz is an elderly woman whose three daughters and a son were killed when the roof of her house collapsed because of the force of an explosion nearby. She cursed U.S. forces.

"I don't want any reparations from the government. I want my revenge from God," she said outside her ruined home, wearing bandages from her own injuries and a broken leg.

"Let the Americans listen: If they kill all the men, we will fight them. We: the women and the children. And if they take our weapons we will fight them with stones and knives."


(full article at the source)


Iraqi political leaders protest U.S. siege of Sadr City

Quote:


(full article at the source)
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Apr, 2008 06:36 am
Heres an interesting article from the "Arab Times" from Kuwait.
It apparently is being ignored by everyone on the antiwar side.
I wonder why.

http://www.arabtimesonline.com/client/pagesdetails.asp?nid=16005&ccid=11

Quote:
BAGHDAD (Agencies): Iraqi forces have taken control of the last militia stronghold of radical Shiite cleric Moqtada al-Sadr in the southern city of Basra, the US military said in a statement on Saturday. It said Iraqi troops began the last stage of Operation Saulat al-Farsan (Charge of the Knights) on Friday in Basra's northern neighbourhood of Al-Huteen, a bastion of Sadr's Mahdi Army militia. The operation included clearing and searching homes in the area, it said. "Al-Huteen, part of the Five Mile Market neighbourhood of Basra, had been considered a stronghold for criminal elements of the Jaysh al-Mahdi (Mahdi Army) militia," the statement said. "But, when the soldiers.... moved into the city, the local citizens actively welcomed and cooperated with them."


Quote:
On the political front, Iraq's Sunni vice president, Tariq al-Hashimi, said Saturday that his political bloc was intent on rejoining the country's Shiite-led government after an absence of nine months. He said the new Cabinet lineup would help "save Iraq."
Last week, Sunni lawmakers announced that their block would return to the government of al-Maliki. They dropped out in August, saying they were being sidelined by the dominant Shiite parties.
Their return would be a boost to al-Maliki, who is struggling to reconcile Iraq's feuding Shiite and Sunni politicians.


Read the rest of the article, its interesting because it offers the Arab perspective.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2008 06:33 am
Quote:
Read the rest of the article, its interesting because it offers the Arab perspective.


Arabs are not one people with one voice or "perspective." This is an article written by an Arab in Kawaitt which other Arabs may or may not share. It seems to favor the US efforts in Iraq which is not to say that it automatically makes it uncredible; but puts the article in perspective. If you read similar articles about the same events from other Arab news such as Gulf News you might get another perspective.

I take issue with this statement:

Quote:
But there were no major engagements that required the intervention of US helicopter gunships, said Lt. Col. Steve Stover, military spokesman for US forces in Baghdad.


I have read several article in the last few weeks which have reported US helicopters in Sadr city.

Quote:


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,352550,00.html

Quote:
Three civilians were killed and 13 others wounded in armed clashes that erupted on Monday night in Sadr City, eastern Baghdad, between joint Iraqi-U.S. forces and gunmen, police said on Tuesday.

"Most of the wounded were civilians who are now receiving treatment at al-Imam Ali and al-Sadr hospitals," the source, who did not want to be named, told Aswat al-Iraq - Voices of Iraq - (VOI), not giving more details.

Meanwhile, a media source in Shiite leader Muqtada al-Sadr's office in Baghdad al-Rasafa area said an unidentified number of civilians were killed or wounded after a U.S. helicopter opened fire at several neighborhoods within Sadr City.

http://www.iraqupdates.com/p_articles.php/article/29914

Quote:
Baghdad: Iraqi police say that US helicopters are engaging Shiite militants in Baghdad's embattled Sadr City district.

They say two people have been killed and 12 injured in clashes between joint Iraqi-American forces and fighters of the Mahdi Army of cleric Muqtada Al Sadr.

An officer said four of the injured in the clashes early on Sunday were young children.

The sprawling district with over two million inhabitants has seen continuous clashes between Shiite militants and Iraqi and US forces in the past month.

Elsewhere in Baghdad, police say a suicide bomber blew up a security checkpoint in the eastern neighborhood of Zayouna killing two Iraqi soldiers and injuring five.


http://www.gulfnews.com/region/Iraq/10208912.html
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2008 01:13 pm
The fact is this.
2 Americans dead..
Forget about the native citizens..

Silly
barbarism
comes to mind about 11th september.
I mean 11th september took plave in the early morning.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2008 02:45 pm
Ramafuchs wrote:
The fact is this.
2 Americans dead..
Forget about the native citizens..

Silly
barbarism
comes to mind about 11th september.
I mean 11th september took plave in the early morning.

8:00 am to 10:00 am EDT, September 11, 2001

I want US to stay in Iraq
until the Iraqis can defend themselves without our help
against those mass murdering and seeking to mass murder
the non-murderers among them.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2008 10:13 am
I guess that would depend on who exactly the mass murderers are; sometimes I think it is us.



Sadr City bloodshed kills 925 Iraqis

Iraqis cover dead bodies

Quote:
Iraqis cover dead bodies with blankets in the ruins of a destroyed house by an alleged US air strike on Baghdad's Sadr City. At least 925 people have been killed in clashes between militiamen and security forces in Baghdad's Sadr City that began on March 25.


(Image at the source; couldn't get it to come up)
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2008 03:47 pm
"I want US to stay in Iraq
until the Iraqis can defend themselves without our help
against those mass murdering and seeking to mass murder
the non-murderers among them."


I wish the most tolerant German POPE, Dalai Lama and other news makers come to Bagdad( Protected green Zone) to discus about decency..
Dalai Lama comes every few second to Germany.
German pope will be here very soon..
Leave not the problem to embedded journalists or half informed political dolls who dance according to the tune of corrupt corporate CEOs
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2008 05:45 pm
"The picture above shows a two-year-old child killed when American forces fired rockets into a heavily populated area of Baghdad's Sadr City. Pentagon spokesmen said the operation was "force protection;" U.S. forces had come under sniper fire from the neighborhood.

No doubt this is true; when you invade a country for no reason, drive it into ruination, chaos and civil war, then continue to occupy it year after year, why then, sometimes the natives will get restless and fire back at you. In such situations, the best method of "force protection" is not to call in airstrikes and missile attacks on crowded civilian neighborhoods and kill two-year-old children -- but to REMOVE your forces from the invaded land altogether, and stop using them to perpetuate a war crime that has already caused the death of a million innocent people.

Yet the plain, common-sense logic of this proposition continues to elude our military and political leaders -- including the two "progressive" presidential candidates -- and all of the "serious" analysts of public policy as well.

http://www.chris-floyd.com/
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2008 07:47 pm
U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert Gates on Tuesday acknowledged that a seven-month lull in U.S. troops deaths in Iraq has come to an end and blamed the bloodshed on Shiite Muslim militiamen who have bombarded the Green Zone and key parts of Baghdad with rockets and mortar rounds.

April has been the bloodiest month for Americans in Iraq
since September, with 44 troops killed,
compared to 39 in March and 29 in February.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/043008A.shtml
0 Replies
 
 

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