THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, ELEVENTH THREAD

Has Bush ever defined what "victory" means in Iraq?

Five years on, Bush again talks of Iraq victory By Matt Spetalnick
Wed Mar 19, 4:55 PM ET

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President George W. Bush said on Wednesday he had no regrets about the unpopular war in Iraq despite the "high cost in lives and treasure" and declared that the United States was on track for victory.

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Is it anything like "MISSION ACCOMPLSHED?"

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When he finds all the WMD's?

When he routes al Qaeda, none to start with thousands and thousands today.

When the American death toll equals the death toll of 9/11?

When he gets Saddam?

January 20, 2009?

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From a Guardian cartoon yesterday:

Wednesday March 19th 2003
A colonel addresses his troops

"Be pusillanimous in defeat. Never admit that any great wrong can ever result from our intervention here....

Try to forget that we are not welcome and that we have no moral, political, spiritual or even economic justification for our presence in this ancient land...

Above all remember to ignore the fact that more than one million people will die because of the pointless campaign of destruction that we shall hereby instigate."

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I suppose they thought they did so good in Iraq they might be giving Iran a try in a hail mary war before ending office.

6 Signs the U.S. May Be Headed for War in Iran

I don't know if all that connects together but the very fact that Cheney went around the region last week is alarming to me given all their rheteric of these last years.

I only hope it is too late to pull it off and I hope we don't have enough troops or money to do it even if we have time.

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revel, If our cogress give Bush the go-ahead in Iran, they all need to be removed from office today (not tomorrow). They've already bankrupted our country.

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http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/steve_bell/2008/03/20/bell512.jpg

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Good cartoon; I wudda made his mouth look more like a trumpet. LOL

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Or a lyre.

Geddit?

Rolling Eyes

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McTag wrote:

Or a lyre.

Geddit?

Simplicity of a true poet.

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The fact is, we can't go into Iran. We have not the money nor the troops. This is the sad fact behind the Bush lyres <sigh>

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AQ mass murdered almost 3,000 Americans in September 2001.

The USA invaded Afghanistan in October 2001.

AQ fled Afghanistan for Iraq and other countries in December 2001.

AQ was temporarily driven out of Iraq in March 2003.

In the year and a quarter since December 2001, AQ grew rapidly in Iraq.

Given another four years to grow, AQ would have become as or more threatening to the world's nations than they became while rapidly growing in Afghanistan.

Bush deserves criticizm for his ineffective leadership of our wars with Afghanistan and Iraq. He does not deserve criticism for his decision to invade either of these countries.

All those denying the truth of these facts to themselves are incapable of facing reality.

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You're in a dream world dude. Your circular arguments eat themselves like the proverbial dragon eating his tail.

http://www.cuttingedge.org/Dragon_Eating_Tail.jpg

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Dream world? He's in a nightmare world of denial.

Ican, instead of writing more repetitious, self-serving and erroneous garbage, read Robert Fisk's article and reflect on it awhile:

http://www.able2know.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=90730&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=5190

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The awakening council and the Mahdi army peace truces is starting to unravel. Don't mean to be gleeful; but just posting it because I didn't think it was going to last given there was no meaningful political breakthroughs to sustain the gains right before and during the 'surge'.

Quote:

The Guardian video does a report, streamed below, on the prospect that some of the 80,000 members of the Awakening Councils or Concerned Local Citizens in Diyala Province and elsewhere are going to go on strike. Many of them say that they haven't been paid for a while. Others complain about their continued subjection to the Shiite government (this complaint is common in Diyala Province). Still others resent the refusal of the al-Maliki government to integrate them into the formal state security services.

Quote:

Mahdi Army militiamen in the southern Shiite city of Kut attacked police checkpoints late Thursday, setting off battles that only ended on Friday. AP writes, "Also Friday, U.S. and Iraqi forces raided neighborhoods of southern Baghdad and Diwaniyah, 80 miles south of the capital, detaining suspected members of the Mahdi Army, Iraqi police said."

A Sadrist member of parliament, Ahmad al-Masoudi (loyal to Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr), charged that the arrests of Sadrist leaders was intended to forestall a Sadrist victory in the October, 2008, provincial elections. He said that PM Nuri al-Maliki's Da'wa Party and his ally the Islamic Supreme Council of Iraq were attempting to affect the course of the elections. AP reports:

http://www.juancole.com/

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revel, It's one of those "I told you so" kind of issue; Bush doesn't listen to all the expert advise he gets, then stubbornly stays in a illegal war that he started that's costing lives and billions (maybe trillions) of our tax dollars.

All the "yes" men he wrapped himself in has done our country more harm that'll last for many decades into the future. Our economy is now in the throes of a downturn that will make past recessions look like a cake walk.

We can't continue to spend billions on the wars and the feds feeding billions more to save our economy. That's going to end up biting everybody in the arse sooner than later.

Inflation is a foregone conclusion. The spike in our food and fuel costs are going upwards we haven't seen since the depression.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

revel, It's one of those "I told you so" kind of issue; Bush doesn't listen to all the expert advise he gets, then stubbornly stays in a illegal war that he started that's costing lives and billions (maybe trillions) of our tax dollars.

All the "yes" men he wrapped himself in has done our country more harm that'll last for many decades into the future. Our economy is now in the throes of a downturn that will make past recessions look like a cake walk.

We can't continue to spend billions on the wars and the feds feeding billions more to save our economy. That's going to end up biting everybody in the arse sooner than later.

Inflation is a foregone conclusion. The spike in our food and fuel costs are going upwards we haven't seen since the depression.

Just out of curiousity, when was the last "legal" war?

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Democrats demand 'straight talk' on Iraq
45 minutes ago

AP WASHINGTON - With U.S. troops entering their sixth year of combat in Iraq, New Jersey Sen. Robert Menendez demanded Saturday that President Bush give an honest assessment of the costs of the conflict.

"The American people are still waiting to hear the straight talk we deserve," Menendez said in the Democrats' weekly radio address. "Instead of making more sweeping claims of victory, as he did this week, it's time for the president to face the reality of the situation we're in."

In a speech Wednesday at the Pentagon, Bush said, "The world is better, and the United States of America is safer" because of the war.

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Mysterman
You had been to Iraq.
You are not a replica of BUSH.
My respect in advance.
How about organizing some friends to spend a lovely life in Iraq?
2 weeks or 2 seconds?

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BillW wrote:

You're in a dream world dude. Your circular arguments eat themselves like the proverbial dragon eating his tail.

STOP, LOOK, AND LISTEN!

1. Osama Bin Laden "Declaration of War Against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Places"-1996.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/terrorism/international/fatwa_1996.html

2. Osama Bin Laden: Text of Fatwah Urging Jihad Against Americans-1998
http://www.mideastweb.org/osambinladen1.htm

3. Joint Resolution of Congress: Passed September 14, 2001. To authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against those responsible for the recent attacks launched against the United States.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/military/terroristattack/joint-resolution_9-14.html

4. Public Law 107-243 107th Congress Joint Resolution Oct. 16, 2002 (H.J. Res. 114) To authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against Iraq
www.c-span.org/resources/pdf/hjres114.pdf
"Whereas members of al Qaida, an organization bearing responsibility for attacks on the United States, its citizens, and interests, including the attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, are known to be in Iraq"

5. American Soldier by General Tommy Franks, published July 7, 2004, page 519,
"... a steep valley in far northeastern Iraq, right on the border with Iran. These were the camps of the Ansar al-Isla terrorists, where al Qaeda leader Abu Musab Zarqawi had trained disciples"

6. Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, September 8, 2006,
http://intelligence.senate.gov/phaseiiaccuracy.pdf
"Postwar information indicates that the Intelligence Community accurately assessed that al-Qa'ida affiliate group Ansar al-Islam operated in Kurdish-controlled northeastern Iraq"

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THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, ELEVENTH THREAD

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