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THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, ELEVENTH THREAD

 
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 07:44 am
McGentrix wrote:
revel wrote:
ican711nm wrote:
I imagine it a bit distracting to build and operate a power plant while it and you are being blown up.


But they can plant trees.

Disgusting; I imagine they are going to use that as a photo op meanwhile ignoring the dead and/or mangled bodies. I can just Laura bush now, "you know the media ignores the good news in Iraq, why, just a few days ago our boys were planting trees..."


Trees aren't high profile targets.

If you can come up with a way to keep terrorists from disrupting the power grid, I am sure the administration would be all ears.

We wait yours and other liberals here wisdom with anticipation on how to solve the problems.


No I can't really come up with a solution. Thats why we have people in positions of authority, to come up with solutions to problems. If they can't, they shouldn't be in positions of authority.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 10:33 am
BUSH'S IRAQ ASSESSENT
By TERENCE HUNT, AP White House Correspondent
14 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - President Bush said Tuesday that U.S. and Iraqi forces are making important progress in a security crackdown in Baghdad but warned that America's enemies will retaliate with deadly attacks.

Three weeks into an intensified security effort, Bush said, "It's too early to judge the success of this operation ... But even at this early hour there are some encouraging signs."

Iraq's government has kept its pledge to deploy three additional Iraqi army brigades to Baghdad and has lifted restrictions that prevented coalition and Iraqi forces from going into certain areas, the president said.

Bush offered his assessment in a speech before the American Legion. "We can expect al-Qaida and other extremists to try to derail this strategy by launching spectacular attacks," he said.

He used the occasion to announce he has named a bipartisan team to lead an investigation of problems at the nation's military and veterans hospitals, choosing longtime Republican Sen. Bob Dole and Donna Shalala, who was secretary of health and human services in the Clinton administration.

"We have a moral obligation to provide the best possible care and treatment to the men and women who served our country," Bush said in a speech to the American Legion. "They deserve it and they're going to get it."

Already grappling with low approval ratings and eager to avoid charges that he failed to act promptly, Bush said an interagency task force of seven Cabinet secretaries, led by Veterans Affairs Secretary Jim Nicholson, would be convened to determine what can be done immediately to improve veterans' care.

The president announced last Friday he had ordered a comprehensive review of conditions at the nation's network of military and veteran hospitals, which has been overwhelmed by injured troops from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The review came in the wake of disclosures of shoddy outpatient health care at Walter Reed Army Medical Center, one of the nation's premier facilities for treating veterans wounded in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Bush announced in January he was sending an additional 21,500 U.S. troops to Iraq, largely for a crackdown on violence in Baghdad, despite widespread opposition to the war and opposition to his plan in the Democratic-controlled Congress.

Bush said critics in Congress want to have it both ways -- fighting terrorists in Iraq and deterring Iran's influence in the country while also pushing to withdraw troops.

"That sounds good in theory, but doing so at this moment would undermine everything our troops have worked for," Bush said. "There are no shortcuts in Iraq."

He pushed Democrats in Congress to approve his latest spending request for the Iraq war without any limitations.

"Members of Congress have every right to express their opinions. They have every right. They also have a responsibility to fund our war fighters," he said.

Violence has dropped in the capital. But U.S. military officials say insurgents have fled Baghdad for outlying areas, where attacks are on the rise.

Bush said Iraqi and U.S. forces have rounded up more than 700 people affiliated with Shiite extremists, and also have launched successful operations against Sunni extremists.

"Iraqi and U.S. forces are making gradual but important progress almost every day, and we will remain steadfast until our objectives are achieved," Bush said.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 10:40 am
revel wrote:

McGentrix wrote:

...
We wait yours and other liberals here wisdom with anticipation on how to solve the problems.


No I can't really come up with a solution. Thats why we have people in positions of authority, to come up with solutions to problems. If they can't, they shouldn't be in positions of authority.

Please, someone, anyone, tell us who you think better deserves to be in positions of authority to solve problems and why you think so. Until you do so, I'll stick with the devil I know rather than the devil I don't know.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 10:48 am
HUMAN RIGHTS ABUSE
By Sue Pleming and Arshad Mohammed
32 minutes ago

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The United States, acknowledging its own record is in question, criticized Iraq on Tuesday in its annual report on human rights abuses, listing death squads with government links, kidnapping and torture.

"We do not issue these reports because we think ourselves perfect but rather because we know ourselves to be deeply imperfect," said U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, in announcing the annual report on human rights worldwide.

"Our democratic system of governance is accountable but it is not infallible," she told reporters.

Iraq was listed among the most problematic nations when it came to human rights abuses listed in the 2006 report, which covered more than 190 countries.

The United States invaded Iraq in 2003, partly to end abuses committed by then-president Saddam Hussein, but the State Department's report said worsening sectarian violence and terrorism undercut any progress in human rights last year.

"On one side, predominantly Sunni Arab groups such as al Qaeda in Iraq, irreconcilable remnants of the Baathist regime, and insurgents waging guerrilla warfare violently opposed the government and targeted Shi'a communities," the report said.

It also highlighted the role of Shi'ite militias and security forces attached to some ministries "nominally allied with the government who committed torture and other abuses."

"Predominantly Shi'a militias with some ties to the Iraqi Security Forces (ISF), targeted Sunnis in large-scale death squad and kidnapping activities," it said.

Despite the Iraq war's deep unpopularity in the United States, President George W. Bush has decided to increase the number of troops there by about 20,000 in an effort to stabilize the country and reduce the violence.

OWN RECORD QUESTIONED

China, Russia, Afghanistan, Egypt, Zimbabwe, Sudan, North Korea, Myanmar, Kazakhstan and Iran were among other nations listed as the most serious human rights offenders in the report.

The Bush administration has come under growing criticism since the September 11 attacks on the United States for its own treatment of terror suspects held without trial at a U.S. naval base in Guantanamo Bay, and in detention centers elsewhere.

In an unusual acknowledgment, the report said the United States would continue to respond to the "good faith" concerns of others about its own human rights record.

"We recognize that we are writing this report at a time when our own record and actions we have taken to respond to the terrorist attacks against us, have been questioned," said the report. "We are also committed to continual improvement."

The report also targeted the human rights record of Afghanistan, where U.S. forces helped oust the Taliban after the September 11 attacks and are still there.

"Its human rights record remained poor," said the report of Afghanistan. "There were continued reports of cases of arbitrary arrests and detention, extrajudicial killings, torture and poor prison conditions."

Pakistan, another close U.S. ally in fighting terrorism but which is at loggerheads with Afghanistan, was also highlighted for its "poor" human rights record.

GENOCIDE

Restrictions remained on freedom of movement, expression and association and religion. "Disappearances" of activists and political opponents continued as well as extrajudicial killings committed by the security forces.

"Arbitrary arrest and torture remained common," said the report.

In China, there were an increasing number of high-profile cases involving the harassment, detention and imprisonment of journalists and religious activities, while in Russia, nongovernmental organizations faced restrictions.

The United States labeled genocide as occurring in Sudan's war-torn Darfur region more than two years ago and the report said it was continuing to ravage the west of the country.

"The Sudanese government and government-backed Janjaweed militia bear responsibility for the genocide in Darfur, and all parties to the conflagration committed serious abuses," said the report.

However, the report said there had been some advances, such as in Liberia where Africa's first female head of state was inaugurated a year ago and in Morocco and Haiti where there had also been improvements.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 12:10 pm
More "progress" in Iraq.


Scores of Iraqi pilgrims killed
Up to 90 Shia pilgrims have been killed and more than 150 wounded in a double suicide bombing in the central Iraqi town of Hilla, police said.
Two bombers wearing explosive vests blew themselves up in a large crowd.

It was the deadliest in a number of attacks against pilgrims heading to the city of Karbala for a religious event.

Iraq has seen a sharp rise in violence between Sunni and Shia Muslims since an attack on a key Shia shrine in Samarra just over a year ago.


MAJOR ATTACKS
3 Feb 2007: 130 killed in lorry bomb in Baghdad's market in mainly Shia area
2 Dec 2006 : More than 50 killed in car bombs in same Baghdad market
23 Nov 2006: 200 killed in wave of car bombings and mortar blasts in Baghdad's Shia Sadr City
7 April 2006: 85 killed in triple suicide bombing at Shia mosque in Baghdad

Baghdad has been at the centre of a three-week-old US-Iraqi security push, and US military commanders have been warning that militants may focus their efforts on launching attacks outside the capital.
Some commentators have suggested that the Baghdad security push, which has weakened Shia militias, has had the effect of leaving them unable to protect their communities from Sunni militants, the BBC's Andrew North reports from Baghdad.

In other attacks on pilgrims, at least 10 people were killed in car bombings and shootings in Baghdad while three were killed in two separate shootings in Latifiya, to the south.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 12:22 pm
Iraqi voices: Escaping abroad
The United Nations estimates two million Iraqis have fled to neighbouring countries to escape sectarian violence. It's estimated that 50,000 Iraqis flee the country every month. Many of them choose Syria and Jordan, where they often face extreme hardship. Their refugee status gives them no automatic benefits.

With help from the charity, Refugees International, the BBC website spoke to four Iraqis about fleeing religious and professional persecution in their country.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 12:24 pm
ican711nm wrote:
revel wrote:

McGentrix wrote:

...
We wait yours and other liberals here wisdom with anticipation on how to solve the problems.


No I can't really come up with a solution. Thats why we have people in positions of authority, to come up with solutions to problems. If they can't, they shouldn't be in positions of authority.

Please, someone, anyone, tell us who you think better deserves to be in positions of authority to solve problems and why you think so. Until you do so, I'll stick with the devil I know rather than the devil I don't know.


Fortunately for you and the world in general, you won't have to stick with the devil for too much longer.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 12:26 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
More "progress" in Iraq.


Scores of Iraqi pilgrims killed
Up to 90 Shia pilgrims have been killed and more than 150 wounded in a double suicide bombing in the central Iraqi town of Hilla, police said.
Two bombers wearing explosive vests blew themselves up in a large crowd.

It was the deadliest in a number of attacks against pilgrims heading to the city of Karbala for a religious event.

Iraq has seen a sharp rise in violence between Sunni and Shia Muslims since an attack on a key Shia shrine in Samarra just over a year ago.


MAJOR ATTACKS
3 Feb 2007: 130 killed in lorry bomb in Baghdad's market in mainly Shia area
2 Dec 2006 : More than 50 killed in car bombs in same Baghdad market
23 Nov 2006: 200 killed in wave of car bombings and mortar blasts in Baghdad's Shia Sadr City
7 April 2006: 85 killed in triple suicide bombing at Shia mosque in Baghdad

Baghdad has been at the centre of a three-week-old US-Iraqi security push, and US military commanders have been warning that militants may focus their efforts on launching attacks outside the capital.
Some commentators have suggested that the Baghdad security push, which has weakened Shia militias, has had the effect of leaving them unable to protect their communities from Sunni militants, the BBC's Andrew North reports from Baghdad.

In other attacks on pilgrims, at least 10 people were killed in car bombings and shootings in Baghdad while three were killed in two separate shootings in Latifiya, to the south.


I agree with the parts I underlined.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 01:01 pm
revel wrote:

ican711nm wrote:

Please, someone, anyone, tell us who you think better deserves to be in positions of authority to solve problems and why you think so. Until you do so, I'll stick with the devil I know rather than the devil I don't know.


Fortunately for you and the world in general, you won't have to stick with the devil for too much longer.

Who is the new devil you want to replace Bush? What do you think the new devilwill do about the world's supply of suicidal mass murderers of non-murderers, aka al-Qaeda confederates?

I know. Rolling Eyes You think it's not your job to to answer to such questions. You think it's only your job to criticize the Bush administration! Carry on!
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 01:02 pm
ican711nm wrote:
revel wrote:

ican711nm wrote:

Please, someone, anyone, tell us who you think better deserves to be in positions of authority to solve problems and why you think so. Until you do so, I'll stick with the devil I know rather than the devil I don't know.


Fortunately for you and the world in general, you won't have to stick with the devil for too much longer.

Who is the new devil you want to replace Bush? What do you think the new devilwill do about the world's supply of suicidal mass murderers of non-murderers, aka al-Qaeda confederates?

I know. Rolling Eyes You think it's not your job to to answer to such questions. You think it's only your job to criticize the Bush administration! Carry on!


I think that as soon as our leadership moves away from your style of paranoia, the better for all.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 01:06 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
ican711nm wrote:
revel wrote:

ican711nm wrote:

Please, someone, anyone, tell us who you think better deserves to be in positions of authority to solve problems and why you think so. Until you do so, I'll stick with the devil I know rather than the devil I don't know.


Fortunately for you and the world in general, you won't have to stick with the devil for too much longer.

Who is the new devil you want to replace Bush? What do you think the new devilwill do about the world's supply of suicidal mass murderers of non-murderers, aka al-Qaeda confederates?

I know. Rolling Eyes You think it's not your job to to answer to such questions. You think it's only your job to criticize the Bush administration! Carry on!


I think that as soon as our leadership moves away from your style of paranoia, the better for all.

Cycloptichorn


While I agree that okie is a little paranoid,his question is a valid one.

WHO do you think will be a better leader,and what do you think they will do the next time terrorists attack the US?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 01:07 pm
mysteryman wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
ican711nm wrote:
revel wrote:

ican711nm wrote:

Please, someone, anyone, tell us who you think better deserves to be in positions of authority to solve problems and why you think so. Until you do so, I'll stick with the devil I know rather than the devil I don't know.


Fortunately for you and the world in general, you won't have to stick with the devil for too much longer.

Who is the new devil you want to replace Bush? What do you think the new devilwill do about the world's supply of suicidal mass murderers of non-murderers, aka al-Qaeda confederates?

I know. Rolling Eyes You think it's not your job to to answer to such questions. You think it's only your job to criticize the Bush administration! Carry on!


I think that as soon as our leadership moves away from your style of paranoia, the better for all.

Cycloptichorn


While I agree that okie is a little paranoid,his question is a valid one.

WHO do you think will be a better leader,and what do you think they will do the next time terrorists attack the US?


That's Ican we're talking about, not Okie.

I think that any of the candidates - Republican or Dem - would be a better leader than Bush. I think that they will actually spend some time and money on defense to minimize the chances of another attack. If we are attacked, I expect them to go after and punish the criminals who carry it out - unlike the current admin, who is 'not interested' in doing so.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 01:56 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:

...
I think that as soon as our leadership moves away from your style of paranoia, the better for all.

Cycloptichorn

Laughing
So there we have it.
Laughing
I'm paranoid about the al-Qaeda confederation aka SMMONM (i.e., Suicidal Mass Murderers Of Non-Murderers) and you are paranoid about the Bush Administration.
Laughing
There exists a preponderance of evidence that my beliefs are not paranoia, and your beliefs are paranoia.
Laughing
Quote:

http://209.161.33.50/dictionary/paranoia
Main Entry: para·noia
Pronunciation: \per-noi-...\
Function: noun
Etymology: New Latin, from Greek, madness, from paranous demented, from para- + nous mind
Date: circa 1811
1 : a psychosis characterized by systematized delusions of persecution or grandeur usually without hallucinations
2 : a tendency on the part of an individual or group toward excessive or irrational suspiciousness and distrustfulness of others


Laughing
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 02:21 pm
Bush said today, we're making progress in Iraq.


By LAUREN FRAYER, Associated Press Writer
2 hours, 59 minutes ago

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Two suicide bombers blew themselves up Tuesday in a crowd of Shiite pilgrims streaming toward the holy city of Karbala, killing 93 people in one of several attacks targeting the faithful ahead of a weekend holiday.




As we make more progress in Iraq, more and more of our troops will suffer the consequences for a short-lived progress.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 05:45 pm
To answer the question, anyone that is not a Cheney, Rumsfeld, or Wolfowitz type person would be a better leader if only to stop this run away train wreck we have been on since Bush took office. To be quite honest, I haven't actually check anyone out too deeply yet. I like Biden. I did like McCain. If I thought McCain was only fooling these righties he has been smooching up to, I would like him again because he is at least (or was) more moderate even if he is a republican. I admit I would want someone experienced in foreign affairs in not a bizzare way like these current folks and I would not want Hillary.
0 Replies
 
Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 05:47 pm
Gore.

Bring it on!
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 05:54 pm
Him too. I would vote for him with no complicated feelings at all.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 06:07 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:

...
As we make more progress in Iraq, more and more of our troops will suffer the consequences for a short-lived progress.

The price of victory in Iraq will be enormous, but tolerable.

The price of defeat in Iraq will be horrendous and intolerable.

The price of victory in Iraq is less than the price of defeat in Iraq.

So let us persist until we achieve victory.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 06:20 pm
We're now in the defeat phase, because this administration screwed up everything from start to finish.

If you believe sacrificing more of our men and women in Iraq for a war without an end game, you're more stupid than most. Using fear as justification to prolong this quagmire is stupid upon stupid.
Especiaslly since Maliki told Bush to get our troops out in the beginning; the right decision.
Over and above that, most Iraqis approve of killing our soldiers, and the majority of Iraqis want us out of their country.

Over and above all that, most Americans want us out of Iraq.

There's no cure for stupid.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Mar, 2007 06:27 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
We're now in the defeat phase, because this administration screwed up everything from start to finish.

If you believe sacrificing more of our men and women in Iraq for a war without an end game, you're more stupid than most. Using fear as justification to prolong this quagmire is stupid upon stupid.
Especiaslly since Maliki told Bush to get our troops out in the beginning; the right decision.
Over and above that, most Iraqis approve of killing our soldiers, and the majority of Iraqis want us out of their country.

Over and above all that, most Americans want us out of Iraq.

There's no cure for stupid.


Tell me,if we decide to leave Iraq today...then what?
If we announce that we are pulling out of the Middle east completely...then what?
0 Replies
 
 

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