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THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, ELEVENTH THREAD

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jan, 2008 05:35 pm
ican has the screwy idea that al qaida wears "al qaida" on their sleves.

He wants to exterminate all of them.

He has to first identify who they are, then kill them. Easy for ican's imaginary, ignorant, brain.
0 Replies
 
Tigershark
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jan, 2008 05:36 pm
ican711nm wrote:

Do you expect al-Qaeda to allow people more freedom and mass murder fewer people if left alone?


Stop attacking and exploiting people and they tend to back down too.
0 Replies
 
Tigershark
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jan, 2008 05:39 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
ican has the screwy idea that al qaida wears "al qaida" on their sleves.

He wants to exterminate all of them.

He has to first identify who they are, then kill them. Easy for ican's imaginary, ignorant, brain.


He wouldn't kill Americans, would he? Laughing
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jan, 2008 05:57 pm
You never know; his thinking is way beyond the mainstream.
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jan, 2008 06:01 pm
Welcome to A2K, Tigershark. Alas, this thread in particular and A2K in general have become much less civil than in the past and a number of people have drifted away from both as bruised egos get in the way of discussion. Not that bruised egos shouldn't duke it out. Just that it gets tiresome for other folks. Have fun with whatever you are looking for here. Again, welcome.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jan, 2008 06:03 pm
welcome , tigershark and enjoy the "give-and-take" .
hbg
0 Replies
 
Tigershark
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jan, 2008 06:33 pm
Thanks, guys.

Just seeing if I could get a few 'bites'. Laughing
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jan, 2008 06:56 pm
Tigershark = bites. Makes sense to me! LOL
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jan, 2008 08:37 pm
Welcome aboard, Tigershark!

Who or what do you seek to bite?
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jan, 2008 08:44 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
Tigershark = bites. Makes sense to me! LOL


Congrats, Tigershark. That's tough to do.
0 Replies
 
Tigershark
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jan, 2008 08:45 pm
ican711nm wrote:
Welcome aboard, Tigershark!

Who or what do you seek to bite?


Well, I could crawl up the beach and bite away some of the sand you have your head buried in, for a start.

Get over this al qaieda nonsense.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jan, 2008 08:47 pm
Tigershark wrote:
ican711nm wrote:

Do you expect al-Qaeda to allow people more freedom and mass murder fewer people if left alone?


Stop attacking and exploiting people and they tend to back down too.

Eureka! You've deduced it! Al-Qaeda suicidally mass murders fellow middle easterners because America attacks and exploits them!
0 Replies
 
Tigershark
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jan, 2008 08:51 pm
ican711nm wrote:
Tigershark wrote:
ican711nm wrote:

Do you expect al-Qaeda to allow people more freedom and mass murder fewer people if left alone?


Stop attacking and exploiting people and they tend to back down too.

Eureka! You've deduced it! Al-Qaeda suicidally mass murders fellow middle easterners because America attacks and exploits them!


But, WHO are al Qaieda? And don't say Osama bin Laden and his mates Laughing They are a necessary smokescreen in the War On Oil..I mean 'terror'. Embarrassed
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jan, 2008 08:58 pm
Tigershark wrote:
ican711nm wrote:
Welcome aboard, Tigershark!

Who or what do you seek to bite?


Well, I could crawl up the beach and bite away some of the sand you have your head buried in, for a start.

Get over this al qaieda nonsense.

Oh woe is me! I fear that I am hopelessly hooked on the following. Please help. Confused
Quote:

http://www.usdoj.gov/ag/moussaouiindictment.htm
IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

FOR THE EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA

ALEXANDRIA DIVISION
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
-v-
ZACARIAS MOUSSAOUI

...

Overt Acts
In furtherance of the conspiracy, and to effect its objects, the defendant, and others known and unknown to the Grand Jury, committed the following overt acts:
The Provision of Guesthouses and Training Camps
1. At various times from at least as early as 1989, Usama Bin Laden, and others known and unknown, provided training camps and guesthouses in Afghanistan, including camps known as Khalden, Derunta, Khost, Siddiq, and Jihad Wal, for the use of al Qaeda and its affiliated groups.
The Training
2. At various times from at least as early as 1990, unindicted co-conspirators, known and unknown, provided military and intelligence training in various areas, including Afghanistan, Pakistan, and the Sudan, for the use of al Qaeda and its affiliated groups, including the Egyptian Islamic Jihad.
Financial and Business Dealings
3. At various times from at least as early as 1989 until the date of the filing of this Indictment, Usama Bin Laden, and others known and unknown, engaged in financial and business transactions on behalf of al Qaeda, including, but not limited to: purchasing land for training camps; purchasing warehouses for storage of items, including explosives; purchasing communications and electronics equipment; transferring funds between corporate accounts; and transporting currency and weapons to members of al Qaeda and its associated terrorist organizations in various countries throughout the world.
The Efforts to Obtain Nuclear Weapons and Their Components
4. At various times from at least as early as 1992, Usama Bin Laden, and others known and unknown, made efforts to obtain the components of nuclear weapons.

The Fatwahs Against American Troops in Saudi Arabia and Yemen
5. At various times from in or about 1992 until the date of the filing of this Indictment, Usama Bin Laden, working together with members of the fatwah committee of al Qaeda, disseminated fatwahs to other members and associates of al Qaeda that the United States forces stationed on the Saudi Arabian peninsula, including both Saudi Arabia and Yemen, should be attacked.

The Fatwah Against American Troops in Somalia
6. At various times from in or about 1992 until in or about 1993, Usama Bin Laden, working together with members of the fatwah committee of al Qaeda, disseminated fatwahs to other members and associates of al Qaeda that the United States forces stationed in the Horn of Africa, including Somalia, should be attacked.

The Fatwah Regarding Deaths of Nonbelievers
7. On various occasions, an unindicted co-conspirator advised other members of al Qaeda that it was Islamically proper to engage in violent actions against "infidels" (nonbelievers), even if others might be killed by such actions, because if the others were "innocent," they would go to paradise, and if they were not "innocent," they deserved to die.

The August 1996 Declaration of War
8. On or about August 23, 1996, a Declaration of Jihad indicating that it was from the Hindu Kush mountains in Afghanistan entitled, "Message from Usamah Bin-Muhammad Bin-Laden to His Muslim Brothers in the Whole World and Especially in the Arabian Peninsula: Declaration of Jihad Against the Americans Occupying the Land of the Two Holy Mosques; Expel the Heretics from the Arabian Peninsula" was disseminated.

The February 1998 Fatwah Against American Civilians
9. In February 1998, Usama Bin Laden endorsed a fatwah under the banner of the "International Islamic Front for Jihad on the Jews and Crusaders." This fatwah, published in the publication Al-Quds al-`Arabi on February 23, 1998, stated that Muslims should kill Americans - including civilians - anywhere in the world where they can be found.

10. In an address in or about 1998, Usama Bin Laden cited American aggression against Islam and encouraged a jihad that would eliminate the Americans from the Arabian Peninsula.

Bin Laden Endorses the Nuclear Bomb of Islam
11. On or about May 29, 1998, Usama Bin Laden issued a statement entitled "The Nuclear Bomb of Islam," under the banner of the "International Islamic Front for Fighting the Jews and the Crusaders," in which he stated that "it is the duty of the Muslims to prepare as much force as possible to terrorize the enemies of God."

Usama Bin Laden Issues Further Threats in June 1999
12. In or about June 1999, in an interview with an Arabic-language television station, Usama Bin Laden issued a further threat indicating that all American males should be killed.

Usama Bin Laden Calls for "Jihad" to Free Imprisoned Terrorists
13. In or about September 2000, in an interview with an Arabic-language television station, Usama Bin Laden called for a "jihad" to release the "brothers" in jail "everywhere."
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jan, 2008 08:59 pm
Tigershark wrote:
They are a necessary smokescreen in the War On Oil..I mean 'terror'. Embarrassed


Oh great ... you're one of those.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jan, 2008 09:04 pm
Tigershark wrote:
ican711nm wrote:
Tigershark wrote:
ican711nm wrote:

Do you expect al-Qaeda to allow people more freedom and mass murder fewer people if left alone?


Stop attacking and exploiting people and they tend to back down too.

Eureka! You've deduced it! Al-Qaeda suicidally mass murders fellow middle easterners because America attacks and exploits them!


But, WHO are al Qaieda? And don't say Osama bin Laden and his mates Laughing They are a necessary smokescreen in the War On Oil..I mean 'terror'. Embarrassed


Wikipedia wrote:

ANSAR AL-ISLAM
Ansar al-Islam (Supporters or Partisans of Islam) is a Kurdish Sunni Islamist group, promoting a radical interpretation of Islam and holy war. At the beginning of the 2003 invasion of Iraq it controlled about a dozen villages and a range of peaks in northern Iraq on the Iranian border. It has used tactics such as suicide bombers in its conflicts with the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan and other Kurdish groups.

Ansar al-Islam was formed in December 2001 as a merger of Jund al-Islam (Soldiers of Islam), led by Abu Abdallah al-Shafi'i, and a splinter group from the Islamic Movement in Kurdistan led by Mullah Krekar. Krekar became the leader of the merged Ansar al-Islam, which opposed an agreement made between IMK and the dominant Kurdish group in the area, Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK).

Ansar al-Islam fortified a number of villages along the Iranian border, with Iranian artillery support.[1] Ansar al-Islam quickly initiated a number of attacks on the peshmerga (armed forces) of the PUK, on one occasion massacring 53 prisoners and beheading them. Several assassination attempts on leading PUK-politicians were also made with carbombs and snipers.

Ansar al-Islam comprised about 300 armed men, many of these veterans from the Afghan war, and a proportion being neither Kurd nor Arab. Ansar al-Islam is alleged to be connected to al-Qaeda, and provided an entry point for Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and other Afghan veterans to enter Iraq.


9/11 Commission wrote:

National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States
The Commission closed on August 21, 2004. This site is archived.
9/11 Commission Report

2 THE FOUNDATION OF THE NEW TERRORISM

2.1 A DECLARATION OF WAR
In February 1998, the 40-year-old Saudi exile Usama Bin Ladin and a fugitive Egyptian physician, Ayman al Zawahiri, arranged from their Afghan headquarters for an Arabic newspaper in London to publish what they termed a fatwa issued in the name of a "World Islamic Front." A fatwa is normally an interpretation of Islamic law by a respected Islamic authority, but neither Bin Ladin, Zawahiri, nor the three others who signed this statement were scholars of Islamic law. Claiming that America had declared war against God and his messenger, they called for the murder of any American, anywhere on earth, as the "individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it."1

Three months later, when interviewed in Afghanistan by ABC-TV, Bin Ladin enlarged on these themes.2 He claimed it was more important for Muslims to kill Americans than to kill other infidels. "It is far better for anyone to kill a single American soldier than to squander his efforts on other activities," he said. Asked whether he approved of terrorism and of attacks on civilians, he replied: "We believe that the worst thieves in the world today and the worst terrorists are the Americans. Nothing could stop you except perhaps retaliation in kind. We do not have to differentiate between military or civilian. As far as we are concerned, they are all targets."
...
Plans to attack the United States were developed with unwavering single-mindedness throughout the 1990s. Bin Ladin saw himself as called "to follow in the footsteps of the Messenger and to communicate his message to all nations,"5 and to serve as the rallying point and organizer of a new kind of war to destroy America and bring the world to Islam.
...
9/11 Commission Report
2.3 THE RISE OF BIN LADIN AND AL QAEDA (1988-1992)
...
Bin Ladin understood better than most of the volunteers the extent to which the continuation and eventual success of the jihad in Afghanistan depended on an increasingly complex, almost worldwide organization. This organization included a financial support network that came to be known as the "Golden Chain," put together mainly by financiers in Saudi Arabia and the Persian Gulf states. Donations flowed through charities or other nongovernmental organizations (NGOs). Bin Ladin and the "Afghan Arabs" drew largely on funds raised by this network, whose agents roamed world markets to buy arms and supplies for the mujahideen, or "holy warriors."21
...
Bin Ladin now had a vision of himself as head of an international jihad confederation. In Sudan, he established an "Islamic Army Shura" that was to serve as the coordinating body for the consortium of terrorist groups with which he was forging alliances. It was composed of his own al Qaeda Shura together with leaders or representatives of terrorist organizations that were still independent. In building this Islamic army, he enlisted groups from Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq, Oman, Algeria, Libya, Tunisia, Morocco, Somalia, and Eritrea. Al Qaeda also established cooperative but less formal relationships with other extremist groups from these same countries; from the African states of Chad, Mali, Niger, Nigeria, and Uganda; and from the Southeast Asian states of Burma, Thailand, Malaysia, and Indonesia. Bin Ladin maintained connections in the Bosnian conflict as well.37 The groundwork for a true global terrorist network was being laid.
...
Bin Ladin seemed willing to include in the confederation terrorists from almost every corner of the Muslim world. His vision mirrored that of Sudan's Islamist leader, Turabi, who convened a series of meetings under the label Popular Arab and Islamic Conference around the time of Bin Ladin's arrival in that country. Delegations of violent Islamist extremists came from all the groups represented in Bin Ladin's Islamic Army Shura. Representatives also came from organizations such as the Palestine Liberation Organization, Hamas, and Hezbollah.51
...
9/11 Commission Report
2.5 AL QAEDA'S RENEWAL IN AFGHANISTAN (1996-1998)
...
The Taliban seemed to open the doors to all who wanted to come to Afghanistan to train in the camps. The alliance with the Taliban provided al Qaeda a sanctuary in which to train and indoctrinate fighters and terrorists, import weapons, forge ties with other jihad groups and leaders, and plot and staff terrorist schemes. While Bin Ladin maintained his own al Qaeda guesthouses and camps for vetting and training recruits, he also provided support to and benefited from the broad infrastructure of such facilities in Afghanistan made available to the global network of Islamist movements. U.S. intelligence estimates put the total number of fighters who underwent instruction in Bin Ladin-supported camps in Afghanistan from 1996 through 9/11 at 10,000 to 20,000. 78
...
Now effectively merged with Zawahiri's Egyptian Islamic Jihad,82 al Qaeda promised to become the general headquarters for international terrorism, without the need for the Islamic Army Shura. Bin Ladin was prepared to pick up where he had left off in Sudan. He was ready to strike at "the head of the snake."
...
On February 23, 1998, Bin Ladin issued his public fatwa. The language had been in negotiation for some time, as part of the merger under way between Bin Ladin's organization and Zawahiri's Egyptian Islamic Jihad. Less than a month after the publication of the fatwa, the teams that were to carry out the embassy attacks were being pulled together in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam. The timing and content of their instructions indicate that the decision to launch the attacks had been made by the time the fatwa was issued.88
...
9/11 Commission Report
The attack on the U.S. embassy in Nairobi destroyed the embassy and killed 12 Americans and 201 others, almost all Kenyans. About 5,000 people were injured. The attack on the U.S. embassy in Dar es Salaam killed 11 more people, none of them Americans. Interviewed later about the deaths of the Africans, Bin Ladin answered that "when it becomes apparent that it would be impossible to repel these Americans without assaulting them, even if this involved the killing of Muslims, this is permissible under Islam." Asked if he had indeed masterminded these bombings, Bin Ladin said that the World Islamic Front for jihad against "Jews and Crusaders" had issued a "crystal clear" fatwa. If the instigation for jihad against the Jews and the Americans to liberate the holy places "is considered a crime," he said, "let history be a witness that I am a criminal."93
...


al-Zawahiri wrote:

www.dni.gov/release_letter_101105.html
Summary of Letter from al-Zawahiri to al-Zarqawi July 9, 2005.
The war in Iraq is central to al Qa'ida's global jihad.
The war will not end with an American departure.
[/b]
The strategic vision is one of inevitable conflict with a call by al-Zawahiri for political action equal to military action.
More than half the struggle is taking place "in the battlefield of the media."
Popular support must be maintained at least until jihadist rule has been established.
0 Replies
 
Tigershark
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jan, 2008 09:22 pm
Ican - you need to get out more. Ever been outside North America?

You can paste all the 'official findings' you like, but they all tend to be subjective and riddled with bias, even non-truths.

The bogeyman himself - the late Osama bin Laden - was held up in the Western press as a brave freedom fighter when he helped drive out the Russian occupiers in Afghanistan, who funnily enough called him a terrorist.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jan, 2008 10:27 pm
Tigershark wrote:
Ican - you need to get out more. Ever been outside North America?

You can paste all the 'official findings' you like, but they all tend to be subjective and riddled with bias, even non-truths.

The bogeyman himself - the late Osama bin Laden - was held up in the Western press as a brave freedom fighter when he helped drive out the Russian occupiers in Afghanistan, who funnily enough called him a terrorist.

Yes, I have many times traveled outside North America. However, since 2000, I semi-retired for the second time. Now I'm an old buzzard that only provides flight instruction, and visits my kids and grandkids, and my friends around the country.

Should I feel deprived?

Your position on my pasties is unsupported by facts or logic. That implies that that which you accuse the pasties, is actually true of you and your statements.

Oh, you have evidence that Osama bin Laden is dead? I've guessed that for sometime. I bet he died a few years ago of a kidney desease after 20--no make that 19--of his former trainees mass murdered almost 3,000 civilians in New York on 9/11/2001.
0 Replies
 
Tigershark
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jan, 2008 10:38 pm
ican711nm wrote:

Oh, you have evidence that Osama bin Laden is dead? I've guessed that for sometime. I bet he died a few years ago of a kidney desease after 20--no make that 19--of his former trainees mass murdered almost 3,000 civilians in New York on 9/11/2001.


No, he was killed in Pakistan about 2 years ago.

For propaganda purposes, he is more use 'alive' than 'dead'.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jan, 2008 11:10 pm
What are your thoughts on the whole 9/11 event, Tigershark? You subscribe to any particular theories concerning the genesis, planning, and operations of that particular "attack" on the United States? (i.e., who do you think dunnit?)
0 Replies
 
 

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