THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, ELEVENTH THREAD

c.i. :
still better than BULGARIA ! Laughing

don't see what you have to complain about - unless the U.S. falls below bulgaria .
wait , there was still one country below bulgaria , wasn't there ? :wink:
hbg

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Oh, by the way, Cyclo, speaking of incompetence, your thinking Lancet's statistics are valid is incompetent thinking.

Lancet on page 1 of its report wrote:

http://www.thelancet.com/webfiles/images/journals/lancet/s0140673606694919.pdf

We estimate that as of July, 2006, there have been 654,963 ... excess Iraqi deaths as a consequence of the war, which corresponds to 2.5% of the population in the study area.

From Encyclopedia Britannica Books of the Year Books 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007:

Quote:

YEAR .... IRAQ ...... TOTAL
....... POP'LATION . DEATHS

2006 28,513,000 156,822
2005 27,818,000 158,563
2004 25,375,000 147,175
2003 24,683,000 145,630
TOTAL ........... 608,189

Clearly, obviously, undeniably, the Lancet allegation that during March 2003 to July 2006 there were "654,963 ... excess Iraqi deaths as a consequence of the war," is gross incompetence, when the TOTAL DEATHS in Iraq January 1, 2003 to December 31, 2006 were 608,189--a number 46,774 less than Lancet's allegation.

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hamburger wrote:

c.i. :
still better than BULGARIA !
don't see what you have to complain about - unless the U.S. falls below bulgaria .
wait , there was still one country below bulgaria , wasn't there ? :wink:
hbg

Personally I'm surprised the USA's "freedom of the press" ranking was so high. Rolling Eyes

So much of our alleged free press is controlled by the Soros gang that wants us to lose in Iraq?

GEORGE SOROS in his 1995 book, page 145, [i]Soros on Soros[/i], wrote:

I do not accept the rules imposed by others. If I did, I would not be alive today. I am a law-abiding citizen, but I recognize that there are regimes that need to be opposed rather than accepted. And in periods of regime change, the normal rules don't apply. One needs to adjust one's behavior to the changing circumstances.

Bruck, in The World According to Soros, page 58, wrote:

Tividar [George Soros's father] saved his family by splitting them up, providing them with forged papers and false identities as Christians, and bribing Gentile families to take them in. George Soros took the name Sandor Kiss, and posed as the godson of a man named Baumbach, an official of Hungary's fascist regime. Baumbach was assigned to deliver deportation notices to Jews and confiscate Jewish property. [Baumbach] brought young Soros with him on his rounds.

Michael Kaufman in his biography of George Soros, page 293, [i]Soros [/i], wrote:

My goal is to become the conscience of the world

GEORGE SOROS in his 2000 book, page 337, [i]Open Society[/i], wrote:

Usually it takes a crisis to prompt a meaningful change in direction.

GEORGE SOROS in the Washington Post, page A03 of November 11, 2003, wrote:

Ousting Bush from the White House is the central focus of my life. It's a matter of life and death.

GEORGE SOROS in the 2003 edition of his book, page 15, [i]The Alchemy of Finance[/i], wrote:

My greatest fear is that the Bush Doctrine will succeed--that Bush will crush the terrorists, tame the rogue states of the axis of evil, and usher in a golden age of American supremacy. American supremacy is flawed and bound to fail in the long run.

What I am afraid of is that the pursuit of American supremacy may be successful for a while because the United States in fact employs a dominant position in the world today.

GEORGE SOROS on June 10, 2004 to the Associated Press, wrote:

These are not normal times.

GEORGE SOROS in his 2004 book, page 159, [i]The Bubble of American Supremacy[/i], wrote:

The principles of the Declaration of Independence are not self-evident truths but arrangements necessitated by our inherently imperfect understanding.

Quote:

In April 2005 the Soros funded Campus Progress web site posted this headline: "An Invitation to Help Design the Constitution in 2020" (This was an invitation to a Yale law School Conference on "The Constitution of 2020: a progressive vision of what the Constitution ought to be.")

Sam Hananel in his associated Press article, December 10, 2004, wrote:

On December 9, 2004, Eli Pariser, who headed Soros's group Moveon PAC, boasted to his members, "Now the Democratic Party is our party. We bought it, we own it."

If the Soros PAID news media succeeds in persuading more than 50% of Americans to oppose Bush's plan, it will boost our enemy's effort and it will defeat America in Iraq regardless of whether Bush's "surge strategy" can work or not!

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

ican711nm wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
You see, if we lose in Iraq, then the tewworists will sneak across the undefended southern border to set off gigantic bombs which will make us all gladly agree to give up our freedoms and submit to the will of Allah.

This is exactly and 100% what Ican believes will happen. He's said as much in the past. And it's absouletely crazy.

Cycloptichorn

Yes, that "is exactly and 100% what Ican believes will happen."

Yes, I repeatedly "said as much in the past."

Given all the evidence that what I believe is true--just posted again above--it's absolute incompetence to deny what I believe when one lacks sufficient evidence to the contrary.

What you believe is not in fact based upon objective assessments of the capabilities of those who would attack us, but upon fear scenarios.

There's no evidence that AQ or anyone else will actually be able to accomplish what you say, so there's no reason to beleive your scare scenarios.

Cycloptichorn

That's gross incompetence!

....................... 9/11 ........................

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That was Bush gross incompetence. That'll change in January 2009; in the mean time, most Arabs have great difficulty trying to reach our shores - legally or illegally.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

That was Bush gross incompetence. That'll change in January 2009; in the mean time, most Arabs have great difficulty trying to reach our shores - legally or illegally.

Those that are financed by the al-Qaeda gang don't have any more difficulty getting here than anyone else adequately financed.

19 ----> 3,000.

100 x 19 = 1900 ----> 300,000?

1000 x 19 = 19,000 ----> 3,000,000?

...

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cicerone imposter wrote:

That was Bush gross incompetence. That'll change in January 2009; in the mean time, most Arabs have great difficulty trying to reach our shores - legally or illegally.

Bush's incompetence won't change in January 2009.

Only who is the president will change in January 2009.

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ican711nm wrote:

it's absolute incompetence to deny what I believe

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realjohnboy wrote:

it's absolute incompetence to deny what I believe

Generally, incompetence is relative not absolute, but yours appears to be approaching it.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

That was Bush gross incompetence. That'll change in January 2009; in the mean time, most Arabs have great difficulty trying to reach our shores - legally or illegally.

So then if a dem gets elected President, a terrorist attack on the US in Feb 2009 will show "gross incompetence" on the part of the dems?

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CORRECTION

After April 2007, A Month by Month, Daily Average of IBC's Count of Violent Deaths in Iraq:
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/

May = 3,755 / 31 = ... 121

.. Surge fully operational in June ..

June = 2,386 / 30 = ...... 80.
July = 2,077 / 31 = ......... 67.
August = 2,084 / 31 = ........ 67.
September = 1,346 / 30 = .. 45.
October = ----? / 31 = ----?**
November = ----? / 30 = ----?**
December = ----? / 31 = ----?**

*Data currently available for only first ----? days
**Data not yet available.

Daily Average Violent Deaths in Iraq:
A = 1/1/1979 - 12/31/2002 = 1,229,210/ 8,766 days = 140 per day;
B = 1/1/2003 - 09/30/2007 = 82,089/1,733 days = ... 47 per day;
A/B = 140/47 = 2.9

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Quote:

Gen. John Abizaid at Stanford U.:

' While [panelists] discussed green technology, the subject of America's operations in Iraq was also a hotly debated topic. Abizaid, who was formerly the Commander of the United States Central Command, quickly established a connection between the two topics.

"Of course it's about oil, we can't really deny that," Abizaid said of the Iraq campaign early on in the talk. . .

http://www.juancole.com/

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High time, too.

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Rant...

From the period when it became apparent that this administration was hellbent on an invasion of Iraq, I have been arguing (likewise a few others) that this was fundamentally about the oil resource. No other rationale was adequate to explain what was happening...the single-minded intentionality of it, the risks of it, the costs of it, the immense propagandization of it, and the constant deceits and decision-making secrecy of it. To have the notion validated by such as Abizaid and Greenspan just pisses me off, to be frank. Five years of guff from a lot of folks here who otherwise usually have their heads on pretty straight.

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You will recall, Blatham, that when George and Tony's Wonderful Adventure into Iraq was proposed, the French were invited to join in. They said no. All right then, they were told, if you don't want to play, you will not share in the largess of "rebuilding" Iraq post Saddam.
The French said whatever the French equivalent is of "screw you." And the rest is history. French fries in the Congressional cafeterias became freedom fries. And we are pouring lives and money into a deep pit.

But that is just my opinion. I appreciate that other folks might think otherwise. I hope I never have the arrogance to proclaim that anyone who believes differently from me is incompetent.

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Gentlemen, ask yourselves, if you believe our invasion of Iraq was all about oil, what specifically about Iraq oil was it all about?
Was it to freeze the price of a barrel of oil to less than $25?
Was it to protect the Iraq oil industry from sabotage?
Was it to obtain Iraq's oil for less than the free market price?
Was it to make America the sole customer for Iraq oil?
Was it about increasing Iraq oil production?

I hope it was none of these, because none of these were accomplished.

If none of these, then what specifically about Iraq oil was it all about?

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I think, ican, you would have to ask Mr Cheney and his buddies at Haliburton about that.

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realjohnboy wrote:

I think, ican, you would have to ask Mr Cheney and his buddies at Haliburton about that.

No, I asked all of you who claim our invasion of Iraq was all about oil, because "Mr Cheney and his buddies at Haliburton" all claim that it was not all about oil.

Again, gentlemen, ask yourselves, if you believe our invasion of Iraq was all about oil, what specifically about Iraq oil was it all about?
Was it to freeze the price of a barrel of oil to less than $25?
Was it to protect the Iraq oil industry from sabotage?
Was it to obtain Iraq's oil for less than the free market price?
Was it to make America the sole customer for Iraq oil?
Was it about increasing Iraq oil production?

I hope it was none of these, because none of these were accomplished.

If none of these, then what specifically about Iraq oil was it all about?

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Well yes ican it does seem that Cheney and pals failed at their every endeveavor from welcoming flowers on the street, cost of the invasion and finally OIL.

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from bernie's post :

Quote:

"Of course it's about oil, we can't really deny that," Abizaid said of the Iraq campaign early on in the talk. . .

it seems that we must now assume that general Abizaid (and any others voicing similar thoughts ) did not know why the U.S. went into iraq a/t to ican's opinion ?
what seems puzzling that many of those that are now speaking out where in fairly senior positions in the administration . i assume that they must have learned a fair bit between the time that the became part of the administration and the time they left - unless they already knew upfront but were not willing to speak up . it must be one or the other - or there any other options ?
hbg

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THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, ELEVENTH THREAD

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