9
   

THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, ELEVENTH THREAD

 
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Feb, 2007 11:53 am
_________________________
CALCULATED FROM
ENCYCLOPEDIA BRITANNICA
BOOKS OF THE YEAR: VITAL &
POPULATION STATISTICS

YEAR.............NUMBER OF
....................IRAQIS MASS
................MURDERED
1992..............21,211
1993..............53,951
1994..............87,940
1995..............96,472
1996.............107,667
1997..............89,453
1998..............65,731
1999..............45,437
2000..............23,265
2001..............19,272
2002..............15,025

FROM IBC'S COUNT
2003..............12,263
2004..............11,086
2005..............13,510
2006..............23,482
2007..............??,???
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Feb, 2007 12:18 pm
Joe Nation wrote:
I hate to break this to Sen Lieberman, (doesn't anyone in Washington have memories that go back as far as fifteen years?) it is not Al Queda which is pushing the hatred between the Sunni and the Shi'a. Could somebody please get the Senator a review of the writings of the Ayatollah Khomeini?

The US has done more to spread his Islamic Revolution than he could have ever dreamed.

Joe(Bin Laden enjoins both to attack the West.)Nation

Joe, your post is based on malarkey.

There is a preponderance of evidence available to show that al-Qaeda members fled Afghanistan for sanctuary in Iraq, in December 2001--after we invaded Afghanistan in October 2001.

There is a preponderance of evidence to show that al-Qaeda's sanctuary in Iraq grew subsequently as rapidly in Iraq in the 15 months prior to our invasion of Iraq, as it did in Afghanistan in the first 15 months subsequent to al-Qaeda obtaining sanctuary in Afghanistan in May 1996.

Furthermore, messages were intercepted between Zawahiri and Zarqawi that declared their intention to do exactly what Lieberman said al-Qaeda was doing: instigating and maintaining the fighting between the Sunni and the Shia. The suicidal mass murders of non-murderers in Iraq are the best evidence that al-Qaeda was and is doing in Iraq exactly what it said it would do.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Feb, 2007 03:50 pm
Hey, it looks like Bush is changing his "strategy" on Iraq.

U.S. launches new talks to secure Iraq

By JULIE HIRSCHFELD DAVIS, Associated Press Writer
54 minutes ago



WASHINGTON - Changing course, the United States is joining the Iraqi government in a diplomatic initiative inviting Iran and Syria to a "neighbors meeting" on stabilizing Iraq, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said Tuesday.


The move reflects a change of approach by the Bush administration, which previously had resisted calls by members of Congress and by a bipartisan Iraq review group to include Iran and Syria in such talks.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Feb, 2007 03:58 pm
ican711nm wrote:
Joe Nation wrote:
I hate to break this to Sen Lieberman, (doesn't anyone in Washington have memories that go back as far as fifteen years?) it is not Al Queda which is pushing the hatred between the Sunni and the Shi'a. Could somebody please get the Senator a review of the writings of the Ayatollah Khomeini?

The US has done more to spread his Islamic Revolution than he could have ever dreamed.

Joe(Bin Laden enjoins both to attack the West.)Nation

Joe, your post is based on malarkey.

There is a preponderance of evidence available to show that al-Qaeda members fled Afghanistan for sanctuary in Iraq, in December 2001--after we invaded Afghanistan in October 2001.

There is a preponderance of evidence to show that al-Qaeda's sanctuary in Iraq grew subsequently as rapidly in Iraq in the 15 months prior to our invasion of Iraq, as it did in Afghanistan in the first 15 months subsequent to al-Qaeda obtaining sanctuary in Afghanistan in May 1996.

Furthermore, messages were intercepted between Zawahiri and Zarqawi that declared their intention to do exactly what Lieberman said al-Qaeda was doing: instigating and maintaining the fighting between the Sunni and the Shia. The suicidal mass murders of non-murderers in Iraq are the best evidence that al-Qaeda was and is doing in Iraq exactly what it said it would do.


Have you seen any proof that any such messages were actually received - objective proof?

The pentagon runs information ops and psy ops as well as regular ones. I find it to be pretty convenient, personally, that such information not only turned up, it was released to the public...

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Feb, 2007 04:29 pm
cyclo said...

Quote:
An average of polls taken support the position that the US public is looking to withdraw from Iraq sooner rather than later. The recent '06 wave of Dems winning on exactly that message doesn't hurt the theory either.

Cycloptichorn


I dont believe that.
IF the dems truly felt that they had won on that mandate,they would have already passed legislation to defund the war and force and end.

They havent done that.
All they have don+e is pass meaningless resolutions,that have no teeth or substance.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Feb, 2007 08:39 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:

...
Have you seen any proof that any such messages were actually received - objective proof?

The pentagon runs information ops and psy ops as well as regular ones. I find it to be pretty convenient, personally, that such information not only turned up, it was released to the public...

Cycloptichorn

I learned of these messages from radio news broadcasts early in 2006. I do not recall which broadcasts. Even if I could recall the news broadcast source and transcribed the recorded statement, I personally would still not possess evidence that such messages were actually received. However, the following quotes are examples of sufficient evidence for me to believe al-Qaeda is probably instigating and maintaining the war between the Sunni and the Shia:
Quote:

Shiite sacred mosque explosion in Samarra
...
In Baghdad, National Security Adviser Mouwafak al-Rubaie blamed religious zealots such as the al-Qaida terror network, telling Al-Arabiya television that the attack was an attempt "to pull Iraq toward civil war."

The country's most revered Shiite cleric, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, sent instructions to his followers forbidding attacks on Sunni mosques, especially the major ones in Baghdad. He called for seven days of mourning, his aides said.
...
President Jalal Talabani condemned the attack and called for restraint, saying the attack was designed to sabotage talks on a government of national unity following the Dec. 15 parliamentary election.

Quote:

Capture of al-Qaeda mastermind of Golden Mosque explosion
...
Abu Qudama operated under terrorist cell leader Haitham al-Badri.

Al-Badri was "a known terrorist," a member of Ansar al-Sunna before he joined terror group al Qaeda in Iraq, al-Rubaie said.

However, Iraqi authorities "were not aware of his being the mastermind behind the golden mosque explosion" until Abu Qudama's arrest, al-Rubaie said.

"The sole reason behind his action was to drive a wedge between the Shiites and Sunnis and to ignite and trigger a sectarian war in this country," al-Rubaie said, referring to al-Badri.
...

My search argument for the 1st quote was:
"Samarra Mosque explosion."

My search argument for the 2nd quote was:
"Al-Qaeda responsible for Samarra Mosque Explosion."
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Feb, 2007 01:31 am
How the war on terror made the world a more terrifying place

New figures show dramatic rise in terror attacks worldwide since the invasion of Iraq

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article2311307.ece
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Feb, 2007 05:22 am
ican wrote
Quote:
Joe, your post is based on malarkey.


No, the malarkey part is your fixation on Al Queda. The Shi'a in Iraq have been waiting for a 1300 years to cut the throats of the Sunni. The Sunni would prefer to keep their foot on the heads of the Shi'a. It's a relationship that's not easily changed, but neither side needs, or is particularly moved by, the philosophies of Osama bin Laden and Al Queda's larger world view. For Iraqis, it's a matter of power of one sect over the other sect of Islam, the need to see one side or the other as the true path and the demand for that one side or the other be submissive.

Joe(Fifty years of car bombs is nothing compared to 1300.)Nation
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Feb, 2007 06:49 am
McTag wrote:
How the war on terror made the world a more terrifying place

New figures show dramatic rise in terror attacks worldwide since the invasion of Iraq

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article2311307.ece


Quote:
The new study, by Peter Bergen and Paul Cruickshank, argues that, on the contrary, "the Iraq conflict has greatly increased the spread of al-Qa'ida ideological virus, as shown by a rising number of terrorist attacks in the past three years from London to Kabul, and from Madrid to the Red Sea.

"Our study shows that the Iraq war has generated a stunning increase in the yearly rate of fatal jihadist attacks, amounting to literally hundreds of additional terrorist attacks and civilian lives lost. Even when terrorism in Iraq and Afghanistan is excluded, fatal attacks in the rest of the world have increased by more than one third."


Thanks McT.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Feb, 2007 11:44 am
Ican, according to Mitch McConnell, DNI,

Quote:
"Osama bin laden is in Pakistan actively re-establishing al Qaeda training camps."


Do you advocate the immediate armed invasion of Pakistan?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Feb, 2007 11:50 am
joe nation wrote :

Quote:
ican wroteQuote:
Joe, your post is based on malarkey.


No, the malarkey part is your fixation on Al Queda. The Shi'a in Iraq have been waiting for a 1300 years to cut the throats of the Sunni. The Sunni would prefer to keep their foot on the heads of the Shi'a. It's a relationship that's not easily changed, but neither side needs, or is particularly moved by, the philosophies of Osama bin Laden and Al Queda's larger world view. For Iraqis, it's a matter of power of one sect over the other sect of Islam, the need to see one side or the other as the true path and the demand for that one side or the other be submissive.

Joe(Fifty years of car bombs is nothing compared to 1300.)Nation


joe , i think you are spot on !
right now i'm reading : MONARCHY - from the middle ages to modernity by david starkey .
last night read about oliver cromwell and the wars between the various factions in the land ; they sure knew how to slaughter each other without mercy even in those days .
really not much new happening , is there ?
hbg
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Feb, 2007 12:25 pm
McTag wrote:
How the war on terror made the world a more terrifying place

New figures show dramatic rise in terror attacks worldwide since the invasion of Iraq

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/article2311307.ece

THIS IS MALARKEY!

And so is this:
this excerpt blatham wrote:
The new study, by Peter Bergen and Paul Cruickshank, argues that, on the contrary, "the Iraq conflict has greatly increased the spread of al-Qa'ida ideological virus, as shown by a rising number of terrorist attacks in the past three years from London to Kabul, and from Madrid to the Red Sea.

"Our study shows that the Iraq war has generated a stunning increase in the yearly rate of fatal jihadist attacks, amounting to literally hundreds of additional terrorist attacks and civilian lives lost. Even when terrorism in Iraq and Afghanistan is excluded, fatal attacks in the rest of the world have increased by more than one third."

And so is this bigoted assertion, which ignores the 12 million Iraqis who voted for democracy in January 2006:
Joe Nation wrote:
The Shi'a in Iraq have been waiting for a 1300 years to cut the throats of the Sunni. The Sunni would prefer to keep their foot on the heads of the Shi'a. It's a relationship that's not easily changed, but neither side needs, or is particularly moved by, the philosophies of Osama bin Laden and Al Queda's larger world view. For Iraqis, it's a matter of power of one sect over the other sect of Islam, the need to see one side or the other as the true path and the demand for that one side or the other be submissive.


APPARENTLY OTHERS ALSO THINK THE ABOVE IS MALARKEY:
Quote:

http://intelligence.senate.gov/phaseiiaccuracy.pdf
REPORT OF THE SELECT COMMITTEE ON INTELLIGENCE ON POSTWAR FINDINGS ABOUT IRAQ'S WMD PROGRAMS AND LINKS TO TERRORISM AND HOW THEY COMPARE WITH PREWAR ASSESSMENTS together with ADDITIONAL VIEWS; 09/08/2006.
...
computer page 112 of 151 pages (report page 109),
Conclusion 6. Postwar information indicates that the Intelligence Community accurately assessed that al-Qa'ida affiliate group Ansar al-Islam operated in Kurdish-controlled northeastern Iraq, an area that Baghadha had not controlled since 1991.

American Soldier," by General Tommy Franks, 7/1/2004
"10" Regan Books, An Imprint of HarperCollins Publishers
page 483:
"The air picture changed once more. Now the icons were streaming toward two ridges an a steep valley in far northeastern Iraq, right on the border with Iran. These were the camps of the Ansar al-Isla terrorists, where al Qaeda leader Abu Musab Zarqawi had trained disciples in the use of chemical and biological weapons. But this strike was more than just another [Tomahawk Land Attack Missile] bashing. Soon Special Forces and [Special Mission Unit] operators, leading Kurdish Peshmerga fighters, would be storming the camps, collecting evidence, taking prisoners, and killing all those who resisted."
page 519:
"[The Marines] also encountered several hundred foreign fighters from Egypt, the Sudan, Syria, and Lybia who were being trained by the regime in a camp south of Baghdad. Those foreign volunteers fought with suicidal ferocity, but they did not fight well. The Marines killed them all. "

ANSAR AL-ISLAM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ansar_al-Islam
Ansar al-Islam (Supporters or Partisans of Islam) is a Kurdish Sunni Islamist group, promoting a radical interpretation of Islam and holy war. At the beginning of the 2003 invasion of Iraq it controlled about a dozen villages and a range of peaks in northern Iraq on the Iranian border. It has used tactics such as suicide bombers in its conflicts with the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan and other Kurdish groups.

Ansar al-Islam was formed in December 2001 as a merger of Jund al-Islam (Soldiers of Islam), led by Abu Abdallah al-Shafi'i, and a splinter group from the Islamic Movement in Kurdistan led by Mullah Krekar. Krekar became the leader of the merged Ansar al-Islam, which opposed an agreement made between IMK and the dominant Kurdish group in the area, Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK).
Ansar al-Islam fortified a number of villages along the Iranian border, with Iranian artillery support. [1]
Ansar al-Islam quickly initiated a number of attacks on the peshmerga (armed forces) of the PUK, on one occasion massacring 53 prisoners and beheading them. Several assassination attempts on leading PUK-politicians were also made with carbombs and snipers.
Ansar al-Islam comprised about 300 armed men, many of these veterans from the Afghan war, and a proportion being neither Kurd nor Arab. Ansar al-Islam is alleged to be connected to al-Qaeda, and provided an entry point for Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and other Afghan veterans to enter Iraq.

www.dni.gov/release_letter_101105.html
A summary of Letter from al-Zawahiri to al-Zarqawi July 9, 2005.
*The war in Iraq is central to al Qa'ida's global jihad.
*The war will not end with an American departure.
*The strategic vision is one of inevitable conflict with a call by al-Zawahiri for political action equal to military action.


INVASION OF IRAQ DID NOT CAUSE THIS:
Quote:
..............................................
CALCULATED FROM
ENCYCLOPEDIA BRITANNICA
BOOKS OF THE YEAR: VITAL &
POPULATION STATISTICS

YEAR.............NUMBER OF
....................IRAQIS MASS
....................MURDERED
1992..............21,211
1993..............53,951
1994..............87,940
1995..............96,472
1996.............107,667
1997..............89,453
1998..............65,731
1999..............45,437
2000..............23,265
2001..............19,272
2002..............15,025

INVASION OF IRAQ DID NOT CAUSE THIS:
Quote:
19801981
August 29: Machine gun and grenade attack on the Stadttempel synagogue in Vienna, killing two people and wounding 23. Marwan Hasan and Hesham Mohammed Rajeh were convicted.
October 6: Assassination of Egyptian President Anwar Sadat by Islamic Jihad.
October 20: Attack on a synagogue in Antwerp, Belgium, killing three and wounding sixty.

1982
March 29: A bomb on board the Paris-Toulouse train kills five and injures 27 people. Carlos assumed to be responsible.
July 20: The Hyde Park and Regents Park bombings in London by the IRA kill eleven members of the Household Cavalry and the Royal Green Jackets.
August 7: Armenian Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia set off a bomb in Ankara airport, killing nine people and wounding 70.
August 9: Rue des Rosiers, Paris gunning and bombing of Goldenberg restaurant : six killed and 22 wounded - Fatah - the Revolutionary Council
August 11: A bomb explodes on Pan Am Flight 830, enroute from Tokyo to Honolulu, killing one teenager and injuring 15 passengers.
September 14: Assassination of Lebanese President Bashir Gemayel and twenty-five others in a car explosion at the Kataeb headquarters.
September 18: Four people are wounded when a synagogue in Brussels is attacked in a "shoot and run" incident. Guards were taken by surprise and the gunman, believed to be from the Abu Nidal Organization, escaped.
October 9: Attack with grenades and machine guns on the central synagogue in Rome, Italy. A child dies, ten people are injured.
October 14: Direct Action bombs a Litton Industries factory.
November 30: A group called the Animal Rights Militia send a letter bomb to Margaret Thatcher at 10 Downing Street, London the device exploded injuring one person.[19]
December 6: Ballykelly disco bombing in which Irish National Liberation Army kills seventeen civilians and soldiers in Northern Ireland.

1983
April 18: U.S. Embassy Bombing in Beirut, Lebanon kills 63.
July 15: Armenian Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia bombed a Turkish airline counter in the Orly Airport, killing eight people and wounding over 50.
September 23: Gulf Air Flight 771 is bombed, killing all 117 people on board.
October 9: Rangoon bombing by North Koreans targets South Korean President Chun Doo Hwan, killing 21 persons and injuring 48.
October 23: Marine Barracks Bombing in Beirut kills 241 U.S. Marines. 58 French troops from the multinational force are also killed in a separate attack.
November 9: U.S. Senate bombing. A time bomb consisting of several sticks of dynamite explodes at the United States Senate in response to the U.S. invasion of Grenada. No one was injured, a group known as the Armed Resistance Unit claims responsibility.
December 17: Harrods was bombed by the IRA. Six were killed (including three police officers) and 90 wounded during Christmas shopping at the West London department store. (See 17 December 1983 Harrods bombing)
December 31: On the way to New Year's Eve seven persons are killed and 70 wounded by bombs on the Marseille to Paris TGV and at the St-Charles station in Marseille. The attack is attributed to Carlos on behalf of the O.L.A.

1984
The Rajneeshee cult spreads salmonella in salad bars at ten restaurants in The Dalles,Oregon to influence a local election. Health officials say that 751 people were sickened and more than 40 hospitalized.[18]
March 7: three killed and nine injured in the bombing of a civilian bus in Ashdod.
April 2: 48 people are wounded by a machine gun attack on a crowded shopping mall in Jerusalem.
October 12: Brighton hotel bombing by the IRA: five are killed in an attempt to kill members of the British cabinet.
October 31: Indian prime minister Indira Gandhi assassinated by her Sikh bodyguards. The killing was in retaliation for the Indian army's entry into the Golden Temple at Amritsar to flush out Sikh extremists who were using the temple as a base for their operations.
December 23: A bomb placed on the Naples-Milan Express train 904 explodes in the same tunnel as the Italicus Expressen massacre, killing 17 and wounding 250. The attack is attributed to mafia.

1985
February 23: Paris Marks & Spencer shop, one bomb, one dead, 18 wounded, attributed to pro-Iranian Lebanese Hezbollah.
February 28: IRA mortar attack kills nine Police officers in Newry.
March 8: Car bomb explodes in Beirut, killing 80, injuring 175; reportedly planned and executed by the United States CIA.[20]
March 9: Paris, Cinema Rivoli, 18 injured, pro-Iranian Lebanese Hezbollah
June 14: TWA Flight 847 skyjacking, Hezbollah, see FBI Most Wanted Terrorists. Terrorists take passengers of an Athens-Rome flight hostage and fly all over the Mediterranian for two weeks.
May 14: The LTTE massacres 146 Sinhalese civilians in the Anuradhapura massacre.[21] This remains one of the largest massacres of civilians carried out by any terrorist group to-date. This was also the deadliest terrorist attack in Sri Lankan history.
June 22: Air India Flight 182 is blown up by a bomb put onboard the flight from Canada by unknown terrorists. All 329 people on board are killed. At the time, the deadliest terrorist attack ever, and still the deadliest act of terrorism in Canadian history. A second Air India flight from Canada was targeted on the same day, but the bomb exploded at the Tokyo airport, in the luggage outside the aircraft, killing two baggage handlers, bringing the total death toll of the act to 331.
July 10: Greenpeace vessel Rainbow Warrior bombed in Auckland harbour by operatives from the French foreign intelligence agency (DGSE), killing one person.
and October 7 – October 10: Achille Lauro cruise ship hijacking by Palestinian Liberation Front, during which passenger Leon Klinghoffer is shot dead.
October 11: Arab anti-discrimination group leader Alex Odeh is killed when a bomb explodes in his Santa Ana, California office.
November 6: Palace of Justice siege: M-19 guerrillas seize the Supreme Court building in Bogotá, Colombia. The next day, an operation to free the hostages leaves some 100 people dead.
November 23: EgyptAir Flight 648 hijacked by Abu Nidal group, flown to Malta, where Egyptian commandos storm plane; 60 are killed by gunfire and explosions.
December 7: Paris, Galeries Lafayette and Printemps shops, two bombs, 51 injured, attributed to pro-Iranian Lebanese Hizbollah
December 27: Rome and Vienna Airport Attacks.
Investigators associated with the WHO reported that U.S.-funded Contras repeatedly destroyed health-care facilities and murdered health-care workers in Nicaraqua.

1986
A bomb place on a bus in the West Bank kills one and severely injures three. A Jordanian Mahmoud Mahmoud Atta is arrested, extradited to Israel, convicted, sentenced to life in prison and freed by the Israeli Supreme Court. After the September 11 attacks, he was confused with ringleader Egyptian Mohammed Atta.[22]
February 3: Paris, Claridge passage (Champs Élysées) seven injured, another bomb failed to explode in the Eiffel tower, pro-Iranian (Fouad Ali Saleh group)
February 4: Paris, Gibert book shop, seven injured, Fouad Ali Saleh
February 5: Paris, FNAC-sports, 15 injured
March 17: TGV Paris, nine injured
March 20: Paris, Galerie Point-Show bombed, two dead, 21 injured
April 2: TWA Flight 840 bombed on approach to Athens airport; four passengers (all of them American), including an infant, are killed.
April 6: the La Belle discotheque in Berlin, a known hangout for U.S. soldiers, was bombed, killing three and injuring 230 people, for which Libya is held responsible. In retaliation, the US bombs Libya in Operation El Dorado Canyon, hitting civilian targets and killing at least 100 people,[23] while trying to kill Colonel Muammar al-Qaddafi, who survived the attack.
May 3: A bomb explodes aboard a Sri Lankan airliner in Colombo, Sri Lanka, killing 21 and injuring 40
June 14: ANC bombs Why Not Restaurant and Magoo's Bar in Durban, South Africa, three people killed, 73 wounded.
July 15: ETA Basque militant group bombs a Guardia Civil police truck, killing twelve.
September 5: Pan Am Flight 73, an American civilian airliner, is hijacked; 22 people die when plane is stormed in Karachi, Pakistan.
September 8: Paris town hall's post office bombed, one dead, 16 injured
September 12: Paris La Défense, Casino Supermarket's restaurant bombed, 43 injured
September 14: Paris, Pub Renault bombed, two dead, one injured
September 15: Paris, police headquarters bombed, one dead, 45 injured
September 17: Paris, Rue de Rennes a bomb explodes in the street, seven dead, 54 injured.
December 25: Iraqi Airways Flight 163 is hijacked. The pro-Iranian group "Islamic Jihad" claimed responsibility.
December 31: New Year's Eve fire at the Dupont Plaza Hotel in San Juan, Puerto Rico, claimed 97 lives, mainly in the casino area. Fire set by three hotel workers, trying to make tourists stay away from Puerto Rico as a protest to their working wages.

1987
April 21: Car bomb at bus terminal in Colombo, Sri Lanka kills 110 people.[24] This attack carried out by Sri Lankan Tamil terrorists belonging to the LTTE.

Bodies of young monks massacred by the LTTE in Aranthalawa, Sri Lanka on June 6, 1987 April 25: Bombing of Greek Air Force bus carrying American military personnel. A group called November 17 claims responsibility.[25]
May 8: An assault by an IRA team on Loughgall RUC base is stopped by SAS commandos, who kill eight attackers. See Loughgall Ambush.
June 6: The LTTE massacres 33 monks and their mentor, Chief Priest Ven. Hegoda Indrasara, at Aranthalawa in Eastern Sri Lanka.[26]
June 19: ETA Basque militant group bomb in Hipercor Mall's parking in Barcelona, kills 21, 45 injured.
November 8: Remembrance Day Bombing parade in Enniskillen, County Fermanagh by the IRA. Eleven are killed and 63 injured.
November 29: KAL Flight 858 bombed by North Korea.
December 11: ETA Basque militant group bomb a Guardia Civil police bedrooms in Zaragoza, kills eleven, 40 injured.

1988
April 12: Japanese Red Army terrorist Yu Kikumura was arrested at a rest stop on the New Jersey turnpike in possession of pipe bombs on his way to New York.[27]

Wreckage of Pan Am Flight 103 in Lockerbie, Scotland. December 21: Pan Am Flight 103 bombing over Lockerbie, Scotland. At the time, it was the worst act of terrorism perpetrated against the United States, and involved the greatest number of peacetime fatalities (270) in the United Kingdom. Just over 12 years after the event, at the conclusion of the Pan Am Flight 103 bombing trial, a Libyan agent, Abdelbaset Ali Mohmed Al Megrahi, was convicted on 270 counts of murder and was sentenced to life imprisonment. Libya subsequently agreed to pay relatives of the Lockerbie bombing victims $2.7 billion ($10 million each) in compensation.
March 16: Michael Stone killed three mourners in an attack on an Irish Republican Army funeral in Belfast in as Sinn Fein leaders, including Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness stood by the grave.[28]

1989
July 9: Two bombs explode in Mecca, killing one pilgrim and wounding 16 others.
September 16: A bomb explodes on a bus bound from Tbilisi to Baku, USSR when it passes near Yevlakh, Azerbaijan, killing five people and wounding 27.[29]
September 19: Suitcase-bomb destroys UTA Flight UT-772 en route to Paris, killing all 171 passengers and crew. Libyan intelligence involved.
September 22: Deal barracks bombing: Eleven Royal Marines bandsmen are killed and 22 injured when base in Deal, Kent, is bombed by the IRA.
November 27: Avianca Flight 203 bombed over Colombia; 110 victims. Medellín drug cartel claimed responsibility.
December 6: Truck bomb kills 52 and injures 1,000 outside a security building in Bogotá, Colombia; blast is blamed on drug lord Pablo Escobar.
December 6: Anti-feminist Marc Lépine shoots 26 people, killing 14 women, at the École Polytechnique de Montréal - The event is dubbed the Montreal massacre.

1990

February: The IRA detonate a bomb at Leicester Army Recruiting Office. MP Keith Vaz suggests that the army may have planted the bomb.[30]
July 20: The IRA detonate a bomb at the London Stock Exchange causing damage to the building. Nobody was injured in the blast.[31]
July 30: Ian Gow MP killed by a car bomb planted by the IRA while at his home in Sussex.
August 10: A bus going from Tbilisi, Georgia to Agdam, Azerbaijan is blown up, allegedly at the hands of Armenian terrorists. Twenty people die and 33 are injured.[32]
October 24: A series of car bombings directed by the IRA in Northern Ireland leave seven people dead and 37 wounded.
PLF attack in the beaches on Tel Aviv
PLO attack on the US embassy
November 5: Assassination of Meir Kahane head of Israel's Koch party and founder of the American vigilante group the Jewish Defense League in a Manhattan, New York hotel lobby by early elements of Al Queda.

1991
February 7: The IRA launched a mortar shell into the back garden of 10 Downing Street, London. (See 10 Downing Street#Security)
May 21: Former Indian prime minister Rajiv Gandhi assassinated in a bomb blast believed to be the work of Sri Lankan Tamil terrorists belonging to the LTTE.[24] This is also the first time that the suicide vest is used by any terrorist group.
May 29: Basque ETA terror group bombs the Guardia Civil police barracks in Vic (Barcelona), killing ten people.
May 30: A train traveling from Moscow to Baku explodes near Karvin-Yurt station between Gudermes and Makhachkala in Dagestan, Russia. Eleven people die and eight are injured.[33]

1992
January 17: Eight Protestant builders killed by an IRA bomb on their way to work at an Army base near Omagh.
February 28, 1992: A bomb explodes at London Bridge station injuring 29 people.
March 17: Israeli Embassy bombing by "Islamic Jihad" in Buenos Aires, Argentina; 29 killed, 242 injured.
April 5, 1992: The Iranian embassy in Ottawa is stormed by members of MEK, an Iraq-supported religious right group.
April 10, 1992: A large bomb explodes in St Mary Axe in the City of London killing three people and injuring 91. Many buildings are heavily damaged and the Baltic Exchange is completely destroyed.
October 12, 1992: A device explodes in the gents' toilet of the Sussex Arms public house in Covent Garden killing one person and injuring four others.

1993
January 25: Mir Aimal Kansi, a Pakistani, fires an AK-47 assault rifle into cars waiting at a stoplight in front of the Central Intelligence Agency headquarters, killing two and injuring three others, see FBI Ten Most Wanted Fugitives.
February 26: World Trade Center bombing kills six and injures over 1000 people, by coalition of five groups: Jamaat Al-Fuqra'/Gamaat Islamiya/Hamas/Islamic Jihad/National Islamic Front,[34] see FBI Most Wanted Terrorists, FBI Ten Most Wanted Fugitives, Ramzi Yousef.
March 12: Mumbai car bombings in India leave 257 dead with 1,400 others injured.
March 20: IRA bomb in Warrington kills two children (See Warrington Bomb Attacks).
April 24: IRA detonate a huge truck bomb in the City of London at Bishopsgate, killing two and causing approximately £1bn of damage.[35]
May 1: Suicide bomber in Colombo, Sri Lanka kills Sri Lankan President Ranasingha Premadasa. This is one of the few occasions in modern history in which an existing head of state has been assassinated by a terrorist group. Attack carried out by Sri Lankan Tamil terrorists belonging to the LTTE.[24]
May 27: A car-bomb placed by mafia in the neighbourhood of the Uffizi museum in Florence kills five people and wounds 40.
June: Failed New York City landmark bomb plot, see FBI Most Wanted Terrorists
June 21: ETA Basque terrorist group bombs a military truck in Madrid, kills seven, 36 injured.
July 5: the IRA detonate a 1500lb car bomb (the largest used in Northern Ireland) in the centre of Newtownards in Northern Ireland, no one is killed but severe property damage is caused to the town centre.
July 27: Three car-bombs explode simultaneously and in a street in the center of Milan, killing five, and in front of two churches in Rome. The attack is attributed to mafia.
August: Dr. George Tiller was shot outside of an abortion facility in Wichita, Kansas. Rachelle Shannon was charged with the crime and received an 11-year prison sentence.
October 23: the Shankill Road bombing at a fish and chip shop on the Protestant Shankill Road, Belfast kills ten people, including two children.
October 30: Seven people killed in the Rising Sun Bar massacre, when Loyalist UFF gunmen attack a bar in Greysteel, County Londonderry.

1994
February 25: In the Cave of the Patriarchs massacre, Baruch Goldstein kills 29 Palestinian civilians in an attack in the Cave of the Patriarchs in Hebron.
March 1: In the Brooklyn Bridge Shooting, Rashid Baz kills a Hasidic seminary student and wounds 4 on the Brooklyn Bridge in New York City in response to the Cave of the Patriarchs massacre.[36]
June 18: Six Catholic men shot dead by Loyalists in a pub in Loughinisland, Co Down.
July 18: Bombing of Jewish Center in Buenos Aires, Argentina, kills 86 and wounds 300. Generally attributed to Hezbollah acting on behalf of Iran.
July 19: Alas Chiricanas Flight 00901 is bombed, killing 21. Generally attributed to Hezbollah.
July 26: Israeli Embassy Attack in London and a Jewish charity are car-bombed, wounding 20. Attributed by Britain, Argentina, and Israel to Hezbollah.
December 11: A small bomb explodes on board Philippine Airlines Flight 434, killing a Japanese businessman. Authorities found out that Ramzi Yousef planted the bomb to test it for his planned terrorist attack, see FBI Most Wanted Terrorists, FBI Ten Most Wanted Fugitives
December 24: Air France Flight 8969 is hijacked by GIA members who planned to crash the plane on Paris but didn't succeed.

1995

Wreckage of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City following the April 19 bombing. January 6: Oplan Bojinka plot to bomb eleven U.S. airliners is discovered on a laptop computer in a Manila, Philippines apartment by authorities after an apartment fire occurred in the apartment, by Jemaah Islamiyah/Konsojaya/Abu Sayyaf Group/Ramzi Yousef/Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, see FBI Most Wanted Terrorists
March 8: Terrorists in Karachi, Pakistan, armed with automatic rifles, murdered two American consulate employees and wounded a third as they traveled in the consulate shuttle bus. See Rewards for Justice.
March 20: Sarin gas attack on the Tokyo subway by AUM Shinrikyo cultists kills twelve people and injures 6000.
April 19: ETA Basque militant group tries to kill José María Aznar (then leader of the Popular Party, later a Spanish Prime Minister) bombing his car, kills a woman.
April 19: Oklahoma City bombing kills 168 people, 19 of them children; the most deadly act of domestic terrorism in the United States to date.
May 6: A synagogue is bombed by terrorists in Riga.
June 14—June 19: Budyonnovsk hospital hostage crisis, 105 civilians and 25 Russian troops were killed.
July—October: Bombings in France by a GIA unit led by Khaled Kelkal kill eight and injure more than 100.
August 27: Suicide bomber in Colombo, Sri Lanka kills 24 civilians, injures 40. Attack carried out by Sri Lankan Tamil terrorists belonging to the LTTE.
October 9: An Amtrak Sunset Limited train is derailed by anti-government saboteurs near Palo Verde, Arizona. One person is killed and 78 are injured.
November 11: Suicide bombing of army headquarters in Colombo, Sri Lanka kills 15.Attack carried out by Sri Lankan Tamil terrorists belonging to the LTTE.
November 13: Bombing of OPM-SANG building in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia kills seven
November 19: Bombing of Egyptian Embassy in Islamabad, Pakistan kills 19.
December 11: ETA Basque militant group bombs a military truck in Madrid, killing six civilians.

1996
January: In Kizlyar, 350 Chechen militants took 3,000 hostages in a hospital. The attempt to free them kills 65 civilians and soldiers.
January: Provisional Irish Republican Army plants a bomb that police defuse at the Canary Wharf towers in London.
January 31: LTTE carries out Central Bank Bombing in Sri Lanka kills 90 and wounds 1,400.
February 9: IRA bombs the South Quay station, killing two people. (see 9 February 1996 South Quay bombing)
February 25 - March 4: A series of four suicide bombings in Israel leave 60 dead and 284 wounded within ten days.
June 11: A bomb explodes on a train traveling on the Serpukhovsko-Timiryazevskaya Line of the Moscow Metro, killing four people and seriously injuring at least twelve.[37]
June 15: A bomb containing 1500 kg of explosives was detonated by the IRA in Manchester city centre. Due to a warning being given the area was evacuated and nobody was killed. (see Manchester bombing by IRA).
June 25: Khobar Towers bombing -- In all, 19 U.S. servicemen and one Saudi were killed and 372 wounded, by Hizballah Al-Hijaz (Saudi Hizballah) with Iranian support, see FBI Most Wanted Terrorists
July 24: LTTE plants bomb on commuter train in Sri Lanka kills 57.
July 27: Centennial Olympic Park bombing, killing one and wounding 111.
August: Marina Roscha Synagogue in Moscow is bombed shortly after being rebuilt after a fire in 1993.
December 17: Japanese embassy hostage crisis begins in Lima, Peru; it ends April 22, 1997 with the deaths of 14 rebels, two soldiers and a hostage.

1997
Israeli settlers spray pesticides on grapevines in two Palestinian villages, destroying up to 17,000 metric tons of grapes.[18]
February 24: Ali Abu Kamal opens fire on tourists at an observation deck atop the Empire State Building in New York City, United States, killing a Danish national and wounding visitors from the United States, Argentina, Switzerland and France before turning the gun on himself. A handwritten note carried by the gunman claims this was a punishment attack against the "enemies of Palestine". His widow claimed he became suicidal after losing $300,000 in a business venture. In a 2007 interview with the New York Daily News his daughter said her mothers story was a cover crafted by the Palestinian Authority and that her father wanted to punish the United States for its support of Israel.[38]
June 28: A bomb explodes on a train traveling from Moscow to Saint Petersburg, Russia, killing three and injuring seven.[39]
February 25: Three bus bombs in Urumqi destroy the No. 2, 10, and 44 buses, killing nine people.
November 17: Luxor Massacre – Islamist gunmen attack tourists in Luxor, Egypt, killing 62 and injuring 24 people, most of them European and Japanese vacationers.
December 22: Acteal massacre – 46 killed while praying in Acteal, Chiapas, Mexico. A paramilitary group associated with ex-president Salinas is held responsible.
Luis Posada Carriles organized a string of bombings at luxury hotels in Cuba in 1997 in order to discourage the growth of the tourism industry. One Italian tourist died.

1998
January: Wandhama Massacre - 24 Kashmiri Pandits are massacred by Pakistan-backed insurgents in the city of Wandhama in Indian-controlled Kashmir.
Aftermath of the LTTE suicide bombing of the Sacred Buddhist Shrine Sri Dalada Maligawa on January 25, 1998 February 14: 1998 Coimbatore bombings - Bombings by suspected Islamic Jihadi groups on an election rally in Indian city of Coimbatore kill about 60 people.
January 25: LTTE bombs the sacred buddhist shrine Sri Dalada Maligawa in Kandy, Sri Lanka killing 17.
April 2/April 6: Two bombs explode in Riga targeting a Synagogue and the Russian Embassy building for Latvia, linked to Fascist extremist movements. See also Riga Bombing 1998.
May 13: A bomb blast destroys the outer wall of the Marina Roscha Synagogue in Moscow. The third time the building has been attacked.
August 7: U.S. embassy bombings in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania and Nairobi, Kenya, killing 225 people and injuring more than 4,000, by al-Qaeda, see FBI Most Wanted Terrorists
August 15: Omagh bombing by the Real IRA kills 29.

1999
January 3: Gunmen open fire on Shi'a Muslims worshipping in an Islamabad mosque, killing 16 people injuring 25.
April: David Copeland's nail bomb attacks against ethnic minorities and gays in London kill three people and injure over 160.
April 20: Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold kill twelve students and a teacher and wound 24 others in the Columbine High School massacre. (Note: this may be commonly considered a general massacre and thus included in the List of massacres, but it also followed death threats on the website of Harris – an attempt to terrorize.)
April 26: An explosion inside an elevator at the Intourist hotel in Moscow injured eleven people.[40]
August 31 – September 22: Russian Apartment Bombings kills about 300 people, leading Russia into Second Chechen War.
December: Jordanian authorities foil a plot to bomb US and Israeli tourists in Jordan and pick up 28 suspects as part of the 2000 millennium attack plots
December 14: Ahmed Ressam is arrested on the United States–Canada border in Port Angeles, Washington; he confessed to planning to bomb the Los Angeles International Airport as part of the 2000 millennium attack plots
December 24: Indian Airlines Flight 814 from Kathmandu, Nepal to Delhi, India is hijacked. One passenger is killed and some hostages are released. After negotiations between the Taliban and the Indian government, the last of the remaining hostages on board Flight 814 are released in exchange for release of four terrorists.

2000

The last of the 2000 millennium attack plots fails, as the boat meant to bomb USS The Sullivans sinks.
German police foil Strasbourg cathedral bombing plot.
May: The Balochistan Liberation Army begins its attacks against government and military targets in Balochistan.
June 8: Stephen Saunders, a British Defense Attaché, was assassinated by Revolutionary Organization 17 November in Athens.
August 8: A bomb exploded at an underpass in Pushkin Square in Moscow, killing eleven people and wounding more than 90.[41]
August 17: Two bombs exploded in a shopping center in Riga, Latvia, injuring 35 people.[42]
October 12: USS Cole bombing kills 17 US sailors and wounds 40 off the port coast of Aden, Yemen, by al-Qaeda, see FBI Most Wanted Terrorists, the Buffalo Six Lackawanna Cell.[43]
December 30: Rizal Day Bombings, terrorists blow up LRts in Manila killing 22 and injuring more than 100 people.

2001
February 5: A bomb blast in Moscow's Byelorusskaya metro station injures 15 people.
February 18: Podujevo bus bombing, 13 Serbian civilians are killed by a bomb attack on a bus in Northern Kosovo.
March 4: A car bomb exploded outside the BBC's main news centre in London. One London Underground worker suffered deep cuts to his eye from flying glass and some damage was caused to the front of the building.[44] (See 4 March 2001 BBC bombing)
March 24: Twenty people die and 93 are injured in three bomb attacks on Russian towns near the border of Chechnya.
March 26: 10 months old Israeli infant Shalhevet Pass is intentionally and fatally shot in the head by a Palestinian sniper in Hebron.
May 6: The Real IRA detonate a bomb in a London postal sorting office. One person was injured.[45]
June 1: 21 civilians, mostly teenagers from the former Soviet Union, are killed by a Hamas suicide bomber in the Dolphinarium massacre in Tel Aviv, Israel
July 24 A suicide squad of the Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE) staged an attack on Sri Lanka's Bandaranaike International Airport and the adjoining air force base at Katunayake. The 14 man-squad destroyed or damaged about 20 aircraft and killed seven Sri Lankan workers and soldiers.
August 3: The last (at time of writing) IRA bomb on mainland Britain explodes in Ealing, West London, injuring seven people.[46] (See 3 August 2001 Ealing bombing)
August 9: A suicide bomber in Jerusalem kills seven and wounds 130 in the Sbarro restaurant suicide bombing; Hamas and Islamic Jihad claim responsibility.
September 11: Attacks killed 2,997 in a series of hijacked airliner crashes into two U.S. landmarks: the World Trade Center in New York City, New York, and The Pentagon in Arlington, Virginia. A fourth plane, originally intended to hit an unknown, but likely prominent, Washington, D.C. target, crashes in Somerset County, Pennsylvania, after an apparent revolt against the hijackers by the plane's passengers; by Al-Qaeda.
Paris embassy attack plot foiled.
October 1: A car bomb explodes near the Jammu and Kashmir state assembly in Srinagar, India killing 35 people and injuring 40 more.
October 17: Israeli tourism minister Rehavam Zeevi is assassinated by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine.
Anthrax attacks on the offices the United States Congress and New York State Government offices, and on employees of television networks and tabloid.
December 12: Jewish Defense League plot by Chairman Irv Rubin and follower Earl Krugel to blow up the King Fahd Mosque in Culver City, California and the office of Lebanese-American Rep. Darrell Issa, foiled.
December 13: Terrorist attack on Indian Parliament.
December 22: Richard Reid, attempting to destroy American Airlines Flight 63, is subdued by passengers and flight attendants before he could detonate his shoe bomb.

2002
Singapore embassies attack plot foiled.
January: Kidnapping and murder of journalist Daniel Pearl by Pakistani terrorists.
March 27: A Palestinian suicide bomber kills 30 and injures 140 during Passover festivities in a hotel in Netanya, Israel in the Passover massacre.
March 31: A Hamas suicide bomber kills 15 and injures over 40 in Haifa, Israel, in the Matza restaurant massacre.
April 11: A natural gas truck fitted with explosives is driven into a synagogue in Tunisia by an al-Qaeda member, killing 21 and wounding more than 30 in the Ghriba Synagogue Attack.
May 8: May 8 Bus Attack in Karachi kills eleven Frenchmen and two Pakistanis.
May 9: A bomb explosion in Kaspiisk in Dagestan kills at least 42 people and injures 130 or more during Victory Day festivities.
May 13: Twelve people are killed in the Jaunpur train crash in India, caused when Islamic extremists cut the rails.
June 14: Car bomb at US Consulate in Karachi kills twelve.
June 18: A Hamas suicide bomber detonates himself on a bus in Jerusalem in the Patt junction massacre. The attack kills 19 people and wounds over 74.
June 20: Car bomb in Riyadh kills Simon Veness, a British National
July 4: An Egyptian gunman opens fire at an El Al ticket counter in Los Angeles International Airport, killing two Israelis before being killed himself.
September 10: A train derailment in India kills 130 people in the Rafiganj rail disaster. Naxalite terrorism is suspected.
September 25: Two terrorists belonging to the Jaish-e-Mohammed group raid the Akshardham temple complex in Ahmedabad, India killing 30 people and injuring many more.
October: John Allen Muhammed and Lee Boyd Malvo conduct the Beltway Sniper Attacks, killing ten people in various locations throughout the Baltimore-Washington Metropolitan Area from October 2 until they are arrested on October 24.
October 6: Limburg tanker bombing in Yemen.
October 12: Bali bombing of holidaymakers kills 202 people, mostly Western tourists and local Balinese hospitality staff.
October 17: Zamboanga bombings in the Philippines kill six and wounds about 150.
October 18: A bus bomb in Manila kills three people and wounds 22.
October 19: A car bomb explodes outside a McDonald's Corp. restaurant in Moscow, killing one person and wounding five.
October 23: Moscow theater hostage crisis begins; 120 hostages and 40 terrorists killed in rescue three days later.
November 21: Hamas orchestrates the Jerusalem bus 20 massacre. Eleven people were killed and over 50 wounded when a suicide bomber detonated on a crowded bus in central Jerusalem.
November 28: Kenyan hotel bombing.
December 21: Kurnool train crash, Islamic extremists derail a train and kill 20 people in India.
December 27: The truck bombing of the Chechen parliament in Grozny kills 83 people.

2003

One of the compounds hit by the Riyadh Compound Bombings. Suicide attacks in Iraq in 2003.
February 7: Car bomb kills 36 and injures 150 at the El Nogal social club in Bogotá, Colombia; FARC rebels are blamed.
March 4: Bomb attack in an airport in Davao kills 21.
March 5: A Hamas suicide bomber kills 17 people and wounds 53 when he detonates a bomb hidden under his clothing in the Haifa bus 37 massacre.
...
March 20: INVASION OF IRAQ


The terrorism that began long before the invasion of Iraq continued after. To claim that the terrorism that continued after the invasion of Iraq was cause by the invasion of Iraq is STUPID AND/OR FRAUDULENT.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Feb, 2007 12:37 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Ican, according to Mitch McConnell, DNI,

Quote:
“Osama bin laden is in Pakistan actively re-establishing al Qaeda training camps."


Do you advocate the immediate armed invasion of Pakistan?

Cycloptichorn

If they actually exist, I recommend a timely invasion of the al-Qaeda training camps in Pakistan. I do not recommend invasion of any other part of Pakistan. I do not advocate replacement of the Pakistani government.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Feb, 2007 12:40 pm
ican711nm wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Ican, according to Mitch McConnell, DNI,

Quote:
“Osama bin laden is in Pakistan actively re-establishing al Qaeda training camps."


Do you advocate the immediate armed invasion of Pakistan?

Cycloptichorn

If they actually exist, I recommend a timely invasion of the al-Qaeda training camps in Pakistan. I do not recommend invasion of any other part of Pakistan. I do not advocate replacement of the Pakistani government.


Given that there is every evidence that the Pakistan gov't is cooperating with AQ, or at least offering them sanctuary knowingly, why do you not advocate their immediate removal?

Is it not necessary for us to secure the entirety of Pakistan from AQ?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Feb, 2007 12:53 pm
You also may want to have a little chat with Condi Rice - here she is talking about this very issue today:

Quote:
"We believe that we have the commitment of the Pakistanis to fight these extremists because they threaten Pakistan as well," she said.

Rice and General Pace also ruled out the use of American forces in parts of Northern Pakistan with a view to wiping out or eliminating the leadership of the al Qaeda.


Given that we know that Pakistan has a non-agression pact with AQ, how can Rice say such a thing with a straight face? As if it had any relation to reality?

The leadership of Pakistan is not threatened by AQ. They are allied with AQ, and somehow with the US at the same time.

The Bush crew is incompetent!

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Feb, 2007 01:04 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
ican711nm wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Ican, according to Mitch McConnell, DNI,

Quote:
“Osama bin laden is in Pakistan actively re-establishing al Qaeda training camps."


Do you advocate the immediate armed invasion of Pakistan?

Cycloptichorn

If they actually exist, I recommend a timely invasion of the al-Qaeda training camps in Pakistan. I do not recommend invasion of any other part of Pakistan. I do not advocate replacement of the Pakistani government.


Given that there is every evidence that the Pakistan gov't is cooperating with AQ, or at least offering them sanctuary knowingly, why do you not advocate their immediate removal?

Is it not necessary for us to secure the entirety of Pakistan from AQ?

Cycloptichorn

Laughing
First, Cyclo, I require persuasive evidence "that the Pakistan gov't is cooperating with AQ, or at least offering them sanctuary knowingly" before I will consider any kind of invasion of Pakistan. Your assertions absent such evidence are nothing more than humorous.

Second, Cyclo, I also require persuasive evidence that the Pakistani government is or is not mass murdering Pakistani non-murders, before I will even speculate about the best way to secure Pakistan from al-Qaeda. Assuming the Pakistani government is not doing such mass murdering, they are probably persuadable to secure Pakistan from al-Qaeda all by themselves.

Third, Cyclo, we are not capable of simultaneously securing the whole world from al-Qaeda. Our resources are limited. Attempting to secure Iraq and Afghanistan from al-Qaeda is obviously the most we can handle at present.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Feb, 2007 01:09 pm
ican711nm wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
ican711nm wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Ican, according to Mitch McConnell, DNI,

Quote:
“Osama bin laden is in Pakistan actively re-establishing al Qaeda training camps."


Do you advocate the immediate armed invasion of Pakistan?

Cycloptichorn

If they actually exist, I recommend a timely invasion of the al-Qaeda training camps in Pakistan. I do not recommend invasion of any other part of Pakistan. I do not advocate replacement of the Pakistani government.


Given that there is every evidence that the Pakistan gov't is cooperating with AQ, or at least offering them sanctuary knowingly, why do you not advocate their immediate removal?

Is it not necessary for us to secure the entirety of Pakistan from AQ?

Cycloptichorn

Laughing
First, Cyclo, I require persuasive evidence "that the Pakistan gov't is cooperating with AQ, or at least offering them sanctuary knowingly" before I will consider any kind of invasion of Pakistan. Your assertions absent such evidence are nothing more than humorous.

Second, Cyclo, I also require persuasive evidence that the Pakistani government is or is not mass murdering Pakistani non-murders, before I will even speculate about the best way to secure Pakistan from al-Qaeda. Assuming the Pakistani government is not doing such mass murdering, they are probably persuadable to secure Pakistan from al-Qaeda all by themselves.

Third, Cyclo, we are not capable of simultaneously securing the whole world from al-Qaeda. Our resources are limited. Attempting to secure Iraq and Afghanistan from al-Qaeda is obviously the most we can handle at present.


There does seem to be a truce in place -

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/HI08Df03.html

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/09/pakistan_gives_.html

The question isn't whether or not the Pak gov't is murdering folks, it is whether or not they are allowing sanctuary to AQ, who is going out and murdering folks in other countries.

I agree that we have all we can chew at the present, but how much does that suck that we can't even go after actual places where AQ is growing and thriving - because we're bogged down in Iraq?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Feb, 2007 01:32 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
You also may want to have a little chat with Condi Rice - here she is talking about this very issue today:

Quote:
"We believe that we have the commitment of the Pakistanis to fight these extremists because they threaten Pakistan as well," she said.

Rice and General Pace also ruled out the use of American forces in parts of Northern Pakistan with a view to wiping out or eliminating the leadership of the al Qaeda.


Given that we know that Pakistan has a non-agression pact with AQ, how can Rice say such a thing with a straight face? As if it had any relation to reality?

What is your persuasive evidence that Pakistan has a non-aggression pact with AQ Question

The leadership of Pakistan is not threatened by AQ. They are allied with AQ, and somehow with the US at the same time.

What is your persuasive evidence that Pakistan is allied with AQ Question

The Bush crew is incompetent!

You actually recommend that I "may want to have a little chat with Condi Rice about this" when you assert in the same post "the Bush crew is incompetent!." Rolling Eyes You are hilarious Exclamation Laughing

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Feb, 2007 01:53 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:

...
There does seem to be a truce in place -

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/HI08Df03.html

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/09/pakistan_gives_.html
Question Question Question "seem to be" Question Question Question

The question isn't whether or not the Pak gov't is murdering folks, it is whether or not they are allowing sanctuary to AQ, who is going out and murdering folks in other countries.

How we should handle the alleged problem of AQ in Pakistan does depend on how civilized the Pakistani government is. If they were to be actually mass murdering Pakistani non-murderers, then we surely could not depend on them to remove AQ themselves.

I agree that we have all we can chew at the present, but how much does that suck that we can't even go after actual places where AQ is growing and thriving - because we're bogged down in Iraq?

You jest, right Question AQ will actually grow and thrive in both Iraq and Afghanistan if we fail to remove them from there. Yet you worry about alleged AQ camps in Pakistan, while wanting us to leave Iraq before the Iraqis can defend themselves without our help.
Quote:
Do you favor America leaving Iraq before the Iraqis are able to defend themselves, without our help, against MMONM (i.e., Mass Murderers Of Non-Murders) in Iraq?
YES = Cyclo, Cice Imp?
NO = ican, ?
UNDECIDED = revel, ?
Rolling Eyes

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Feb, 2007 01:57 pm
Quote:

How we should handle the alleged problem of AQ in Pakistan does depend on how civilized the Pakistani government is. If they were to be actually mass murdering Pakistani non-murderers, then we surely could not depend on them to remove AQ themselves.


We can't depend on them to remove AQ regardless of whether or not they are actually murdering people in their own country themselves. That's the whole point, Ican.

Yes, there does 'seem to be' a truce in place in Pakistan between their version of the Taliban/AQ and the Pak government. This isn't news to anyone but yourself.

You have a hell of a lot of trust in Pakistan, I must say.

Quote:


You jest, right Question AQ will actually grow and thrive in both Iraq and Afghanistan if we fail to remove them from there. Yet you worry about alleged AQ camps in Pakistan, while wanting us to leave Iraq before the Iraqis can defend themselves without our help.


No, I want to leave Iraq b/c the Iraqis have no intention of 'defending themselves,' with or without our help.

I'm more worried about AQ training camps in Pakistan than in Iraq, yes.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
 

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