THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, ELEVENTH THREAD

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No worries... That is pretty much the context. I found it quite enlightening, though, that ican pretty much admitted that he stopped posting the numbers because they didn't match his rosy predictions.

UPDATE OF IRAQ'S VIOLENT NON-COMBATANT DEATHS BY MONTH

January 2006 .... = 1267 ... January 2007 .... = 2516(est.)

Monday, December 18, 2006
CNN poll: U.S. support for Iraq war falls to 31 percent
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Fewer than a third of Americans still support the war in Iraq, and more than half say they want U.S. troops out of the country within a year, according to a CNN poll released Monday.

ican, You're in the third; not even close to support for this war.

Seventy-one percent of Americans say the country is headed seriously off on the wrong track.

Sixty-four percent of Americans call the war a mistake.

U.S. support for Iraq war falls to 31 percent.

More than half of Americans polled say they want U.S. troops out of the country within a year

from ican's post :

Quote:

UPDATE OF IRAQ'S VIOLENT NON-COMBATANT DEATHS BY MONTH

January 2006 .... = 1267 ... January 2007 .... = 2516(est.)

is this great news or what ?
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this sure is progress , isn't it ?
hbg ...

"Do you think the war in Iraq is a worthy cause or a hopeless cause?"

.

Worthy
Hopeless
Both (vol.)
Neither (vol.)
Unsure
% % % % %
2/12-15/07 39 56 2 2 1
.

"Would you favor or oppose Congress cutting all funding for the Iraq war?"

.

Favor
Oppose
Unsure
% % %
2/12-15/07 29 68 3
.

"Would you favor or oppose Congress cutting funding for the additional troops President Bush wants to send to Iraq?"

.

Favor
Oppose
Unsure
% % %
2/12-15/07 38 60 2
.

"Do you think sending more troops to Iraq would help stabilize the situation there, or not?"

.

Would Help
Would Not
Unsure
% % %
2/12-15/07 32 64 4

.

"Do you think most Iraqi civilians are sympathetic to the insurgency or opposed to the
insurgency?"

.

Sympathetic
Opposed
Unsure
% % %
2/12-15/07 22 66 12


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"Do you approve or disapprove of the way [see below] are handling the situation in Iraq?"

.

Approve Disapprove Unsure

% % %
"The Democrats in Congress"

2/9-11/07
30 63 7
.

"The Republicans in Congress"

2/9-11/07
27 70 4
.

"As you may know, the Bush Administration has begun to significantly increase the number of U.S. troops in Iraq to help stabilize the situation there. Do you favor or oppose this?"

.

Favor Oppose Unsure

% % %
2/9-11/07
38 60 2

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"From what you have seen or heard about the situation in Iraq, what should the United States do now? Should the U.S. increase the number of U.S. troops in Iraq, keep the same number of U.S. troops in Iraq as there are now, decrease the number of U.S. troops in Iraq, or remove all its troops from Iraq?"

.

Increase Keep the
Same Decrease Remove All Unsure
% % % % %
2/8-11/07
26 17 23 28 6

"Regardless of whether you think taking military action in Iraq was the right thing to do, would you say that the U.S. is very likely to succeed in Iraq, somewhat likely to succeed, not very likely to succeed, or not at all likely to succeed in Iraq?"

.

Very
Likely Somewhat
Likely Not Very
Likely Not at
All Likely Unsure
% % % % %
2/8-11/07
13 37 26 21 3

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"Do you think the U.S. should keep military troops in Iraq until the situation has stabilized, or do you think the U.S. should bring its troops home as soon as possible?"

.

Keep Troops Bring Home Unsure
% % %
2/7-11/07 42 53 5

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"Regardless of what you think about the original decision to use military force in Iraq, do you now believe that the United States will definitely succeed, probably succeed, probably fail, or definitely fail in achieving its goals in Iraq?" N=769, MoE ± 4 (Form 2)

.

Definitely
Succeed Probably
Succeed Probably
Fail Definitely
Fail Unsure
% % % % %
2/7-11/07 7 40 34 12 7

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"How much, if anything, have you read or heard about George W. Bush's new plan that will send an additional 21,000 U.S. troops to Iraq . . . ?"

.

A Lot A Little Nothing at All Unsure
% % % %
2/7-11/07
42 47 10 1

After Saddam's regime was removed, the political and military tactics America chose to help the Iraqis establish a government that would be capable of defending the Iraqi people against MMONM were seriously flawed. Those mistakes must be corrected to enable the Iraqis to defend themselves without our help against MMONM in Iraq.

Uniting Iraq's Disparate Cultures a Challenge, Experts Say
Brian Handwerk
for National Geographic News

April 24, 2003
Constructing a representative government from the ashes of Saddam Hussein's totalitarian regime is a daunting challenge for Iraq. "If you look at an ethnic map, you'd say that Iraq's political geography is at odds with its cultural geography," says geographer Harm De Blij, distinguished professor at Michigan State University.

"As with most of the nations in that region, the boundaries [of Iraq] are the result of political decisions, mostly arbitrary, by the colonial powers early last century," said James P. Reams, retired Army Artillery Field officer and former West Point geography instructor. "That the boundaries have lasted into the 21st century is more a tribute to the series of local despots that have run these 'countries' since the colonial powers left."

Now that Iraq's regime has been toppled, the old cultural divisions are again surfacing. How and if different ethnic and religious groups can be united under one peaceful, stable system of government remains to be seen.

Modern Iraq was created after the defeat of the German-allied Ottoman Empire in World War I, when the victorious British and French carved up the territory of their defeated rival. One of their decisions was the establishment of the new nation of Iraq under the rule of King Faisal I. The monarch had led the great war's Arab revolt?-popularized by Lawrence of Arabia?-and had captured Damascus from the Ottomans in 1918.

Within the country's borders, three major groups?-each with an identity and an agenda?-occupy fairly distinct geographic regions (see map): Sunni Muslims, Shiite Muslims, and Kurds. Each calls Iraq home, but each is unsure of what its role will be in the new Iraq. If the country's territorial integrity is to be respected, they must somehow work together.

Iraq is a country that spills over its borders in all directions," says geographer Harm De Blij. Kurds spread from the north into three other nations, Iraqi Shiites blend into Khuzestan, an Arab area in predominantly Persian Iran, and Bedouin Arabs mix into Saudi Arabia in the southwest.

ican continues to agree with most Americans about the mismanagement of this war, but disagrees with most American about pulling out of Iraq.

This guy is really confused! He wants to eat his cake and eat it too! Funny, that.

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indeed , it would be a noble goal "to help the Iraqis establish a government that would be capable of defending the Iraqi people against MMONM " .

the first question might be : can this be accomplished at all ?

To be determined!

the second question might be : is it possible to establish a time-frame for this ? might it be a year , five years or is it an indeterminate goal ;
i.e. "it takes as long as it takes" .

It takes as long as it takes!

since it took centuries for europeans to come to live in (reasonable) peace with each other , is that what one might expect to happen in iraq ?

To be determined!

the third question might be : are those nations now trying to help the iraqis to live in peace which each other willing to make such a committment ; ie. "indeterminate " , if necessary .

To be determined!

the fourth question might be : will it help or hinder the iraqi people in their peace process to have (what is now) "an occupying force" ?

Probably beats having another Saddam-like tyrant murdering them!

the fifth question(and my last one for now) might be : can an iraq state be established within the artificial borders and the tribal and religious divisions exesting now ?

To be determined!

[sixth question] would an iraq consisting of "states" oe "administrative districts" within the state of iraq (for lack of better words) stand a better chance of achieving peace and reducing the bloodshed now being caused (at least to some extent) by these divisions ?

To be determined!

as i stated , it is a noble goal - but noble goals cannot always be achieved .

Seventh question: Can this noble goal be achieved?

To be determined!
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"Try to fail" is an oxymoron in the case of Iraq. It's long been a failure.

It has long been neither a success or a failure. But it has long been a pain in the butt.

The only thing remaining is the question of how to minimize that failure so we don't end up increasing our losses of men and treasure.

ican, It's already a failure.
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I don't see that we are so good a job at defending Iraqis suicide bombers. The Shiites took the militias off the streets but the violence continues. What in the world is the military doing over there, twiddling their thumbs? Why aren't they going after the insurgents?