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THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, ELEVENTH THREAD

 
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2007 07:14 pm
hbg, I agree with the Forbes article.

I agree that Bush and his administration are incompetent.

I agree that we better damn well succeed in Iraq or we shall pay dearly for our failure back home in America.

I agree that Gore is more incompetent than Bush.

I agree that Kerry is more incompetent that Gore and is a fraud.

I agree that in 2008, we damn well better elect someone president who is less incompetent than Bush.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2007 07:14 pm
here is another report by the SPECIAL INSPECTOR GENERAL which is not painting a very rosy picture about reconstruction efforts in iraq .

i'm not sure sure that bechtel alone can be blamed for not completing the projects because security threats interfere with the work ; that seems to point to a more serious problem LACK OF SECURITY !
hbg



Quote:
Bechtel's Projects Lacking In Iraq
Less Than Half Of Jobs Complete, Report Concludes

By Dana Hedgpeth
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, July 26, 2007; D08



A government oversight agency has found that Bechtel National successfully completed less than half of the reconstruction jobs that the government hired it to perform in Iraq.

In a report released yesterday, the Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction analyzed 24 job orders that Bechtel contracted to perform at a total direct cost of $761.2 million. Of those, 11 were successfully completed, 10 were incomplete, canceled or transferred to someone else, and the final status of 3 could not be determined.

"This is emblematic of the problem that contractors have experienced in Iraq reconstruction," said Stuart W. Bowen Jr., the inspector general for Iraq. He said his office has found that 40 percent of projects in Iraq were in danger of not being completed under the original contract.

"When you enter a contract, you expect the work to be done," Bowen said. "If half the job orders aren't met, you didn't get what you bargained for."

"It has been typical for [contractors] to have projects delayed because of security or delays by subcontractors," he said. "That's why virtually every project in Iraq has cost more or taken longer than expected, and as is the case with the Bechtel contract, some projects didn't get finished at all."

Bechtel was hired under a $2 billion contract to provide engineering, procurement and construction services and to rebuild infrastructure in Iraq. The report pointed out that Bechtel did finish several of its costliest undertakings, including an $88.4 million project to do maintenance work, provide spare parts and train Iraqis at 19 power plants, and a $126.5 million project to build and refurbish electrical substations.

Among the jobs that Bechtel did not successfully complete was one to build a landfill in Baghdad. After security problems and troubles with the land's ownership arose, the $3.7 million job was canceled. Bechtel was paid for its work, and $2.6 million worth of equipment was turned over to the Iraqis.

"We couldn't find an adequate site for the landfill," said Bill Shoaf, program director for Bechtel's work in Iraq. "It was determined the most beneficial use was for Bechtel to turn over the equipment. We had gone through all the options, and it was difficult finding a suitable site. So in time, the job order was amended."

Bechtel started work on a new $24.4 million water-treatment plant in Baghdad's volatile Sadr City district but did not finish the job. The company turned the project over to the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers after completing 88 percent of the work.

In another case, Bechtel did not finish building a children's hospital in the southern city of Basra because of security threats. The hospital, championed by first lady Laura Bush, was supposed to provide state-of-the-art care. Bechtel transferred the hospital to the Corps of Engineers after completing 45 percent of the work.




source : BECHTEL FAILS TO COMPLETE MANY PROJECTS
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2007 07:34 pm
hbg,

I agree that we must solve the security problem in Iraq before we can solve the infrastructure problem in Iraq.

I agree that those people repeatedly posting what some think is going wrong in Iraq, little about what some think is going right in Iraq, and nothing at all about what some think needs to be done to succeed in Iraq to correct the wrongs in Iraq, is evidence that those people do not want us to succeed in Iraq.

I agree that we better damn well succeed in Iraq or we shall pay dearly for our failure back home in America.
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2007 07:35 pm
ican wrote :

Quote:
I agree that in 2008, we damn well better elect someone president who is less incompetent than Bush.


i certainly do not envy the person becoming the next president of the united states !

reminds me of the story of being asked to clean the swamp when the alligators are snapping at your "tender parts" !
hbg
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2007 07:43 pm
sorry i did not point out that the FORBES report was based upon a report by ASSOCIATED PRESS which ican considers unreliable .
i do think , however , that the special inspector general being quoted might be considered a reliable source .
since he was appointed by and is reporting to the u.s. government , i doubt he has any reason to file a fudged report .
hbg
0 Replies
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2007 08:02 pm
while the u.s. government is planning to spend gobs of money to supply weapons to saudi-arabia and other middle-eastern states , the US ambassador to the United Nations said ally Saudi Arabia was undermining efforts to stabilize Iraq.
does this indicate some disagreements ???
hbg

from the : jerusalem post
Quote:
The US ambassador to the United Nations said ally Saudi Arabia was undermining efforts to stabilize Iraq.

Zalmay Khalilzad's comments Sunday follow word from a senior defense official that a planned US weapons sale to Saudi Arabia and other moderate Gulf states was expected to be a topic this week when Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Defense Secretary Robert Gates visit the Middle East. The sale is expected to total $20 billion in sophisticated weaponry.

Khalilzad, a former US ambassador to Iraq, said an opinion column he wrote for The New York Times this month accusing US allies of pursuing destabilizing policies toward Iraq referred in part to Saudi Arabia.

"Saudi Arabia and a number of other countries are not doing all they can to help us in Iraq," he said Sunday. "At times, some of them are not only not helping, but they are doing things that are undermining the effort to make progress."

US officials have stepped up public criticism of Saudi Arabia but remain cautious in dealing with a crucial ally in the region.

Iraqi officials have accused Saudi Arabia of allowing a flow of funding to support Sunni insurgents and failing to prevent would-be suicide bombers from crossing the Saudi border to infiltrate Iraq.

On their trip, Rice and Gates are expected to ask Saudi King Abdullah for greater cooperation in Iraq. The United States says it will push for forgiving millions in Iraqi debt dating to the Saddam Hussein era and security help for the government of Iraq's prime minister, Nouri al-Maliki.

Two House Democrats, Representatives Anthony Weiner and Jerrold Nadler of New York, said Sunday they would introduce legislation to block the Saudi arms deal.

"We need to send a crystal clear message to the Saudi Arabian government that their tacit approval of terrorism can't go unpunished," Weiner said at a news conference in New York. "Saudi Arabia should not get an ounce of military support from the US until they unequivocally denounced terrorism and take tangible steps to prevent it."

Weiner and Nadler noted that 15 of the 19 hijackers on Sept. 11, 2001, were Saudi citizens.

A House Republican leader, Minority Whip Roy Blunt of Missouri, said he was inclined to support the sale.

"But on these issues regarding Saudi Arabia, we have a bigger problem in the House all the time, because of the disappointments with the Saudis, who have traditionally been good friends of ours, who have been allies in the region, but continually seem to not understand the situation we're in right now," Blunt said.

"And so, the votes that we've had have been harder and harder as related to Saudi Arabia. And the administration's going to have to really make the case here that this is needed, that there are reasons beyond what we can see, that the Saudis continue to be helpful to us. And that will be a challenge for them, I think."



source : MILITARY AID FOR SAUDI ARABIA
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2007 08:24 pm
ican, You're an idiot. We can't win in Iraq with 160,000 troops. When will you absorb that in your brain? The 160,000 troops are over-worked, and exposed to danger 24/7. Many come back with mental illnesses that our government refuses to take care of.

You are an idiot.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Jul, 2007 08:42 pm
Ican, you are entitled to be wrong now and then, but you definitely abuse the privilege. BTW, Gore is all about competence and accomplishments. No Rep can hold a candle to him.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2007 07:46 am
I'm surprised it has taken so long.



Iraqi leader faces revolt within party
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2007 09:40 am
http://static.firedoglake.com/2007/07/20070729_baghdad_street_ce.jpg

One good news from Iraq; don't know if I expressed it yet, but congradulations to iraqis on their win. Here are a few words by the captain of the soccer (football?) team.

Quote:
Iraq's 1-0 victory over Saudi Arabia on a 71st-minute header by captain Younis Mahmoud was an inspirational triumph for a team whose players straddle bitter and violent ethnic divides. After the game, Mahmoud called for the United States to withdraw its troops from his nation.

"I want America to go out," he said. "Today, tomorrow, or the day after tomorrow, but out. I wish the American people didn't invade Iraq and, hopefully, it will be over soon."



source
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2007 09:41 am
Advocate wrote:
Ican, you are entitled to be wrong now and then, but you definitely abuse the privilege. BTW, Gore is all about competence and accomplishments. No Rep can hold a candle to him.


Ditto
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2007 12:12 pm
Advocate wrote:
Ican, you are entitled to be wrong now and then, but you definitely abuse the privilege. BTW, Gore is all about competence and accomplishments. No Rep can hold a candle to him.

Gore is a fool. I base that allegation on his books and speeches both before and after he ran for president. They are obviously irrational. If it were actually true that no Rep can hold a candle to him, then all the other Reps would have to be seriously retarded.

My critic credentials are admittedly modest: a successful 30 year career: in research and development engineering; a second successful three quarters of another 30 year career in commercial aviation.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2007 12:15 pm
Quote:
They are obviously irrational.


What about them is irrational, specifically?

I submit that you are losing your faculties to judge such things, due to the onset of senescence. therefore, more then just a blanket statement is necessary for you to be taken seriously on this or any other issue.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2007 12:16 pm
Ican, are we supposed to bow and scrape considering your credentials. Relative to a2k, I am underwhelmed.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2007 12:39 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Quote:
They are obviously irrational.


What about them is irrational, specifically?

I submit that you are losing your faculties to judge such things, due to the onset of senescence. therefore, more then just a blanket statement is necessary for you to be taken seriously on this or any other issue.

Cycloptichorn

Laughing

I submit that you are not competent to judge whether anyone else is losing his faculties.

I'll try to help rescue you without transcribing Gore's first book on the cause of earth warming.

Gore's repeated reasoning technique:

If A were true, then by logical argument B is true.
Since B is true, C by logical argument is true.

Gore and other politicians of his competence level use this technique extensively.

However, my favorite is this: Excess CO2 emissions now can be "offset" by paying low emitters of CO2 to plant more trees now.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2007 12:41 pm
Advocate wrote:
Ican, are we supposed to bow and scrape considering your credentials. Relative to a2k, I am underwhelmed.

Question "bow and scrape" Question

How did you infer that possibility?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2007 12:44 pm
ican711nm wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Quote:
They are obviously irrational.


What about them is irrational, specifically?

I submit that you are losing your faculties to judge such things, due to the onset of senescence. therefore, more then just a blanket statement is necessary for you to be taken seriously on this or any other issue.

Cycloptichorn

Laughing

I submit that you are not competent to judge whether anyone else is losing his faculties.

I'll try to help rescue you without transcribing Gore's first book on the cause of earth warming.

Gore's repeated reasoning technique:

If A were true, then by logical argument B is true.
Since B is true, C by logical argument is true.

Gore and other politicians of his competence level use this technique extensively.

However, my favorite is this: Excess CO2 emissions now can be "offset" by paying low emitters of CO2 to plant more trees now.


Unsourced allegations lacking in content. You'll have to do better then this; there is a vast wealth of material by and about Gore online, so no transcription is necessary.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2007 12:46 pm
Mullen cites limited progress in Iraq


By KIMBERLY HEFLING, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 29 minutes ago



WASHINGTON - President Bush's choice to head the military Joint Chiefs of Staff said Tuesday an increase of troops in Iraq is giving commanders the forces needed to improve security there.

"Security is better, not great, but better," said Navy Adm. Michael Mullen, speaking before the Senate Armed Services committee at his nomination hearing.

However, Mullen acknowledged under questioning that, "there does not appear to be much political progress" in Iraq.

"I believe security is critical to providing the government of Iraq the breathing space it needs to work toward political national reconciliation and economic growth, which are themselves critical to a stable Iraq," Mullen said. "Barring that, no amount of troops and no amount of time will make much of a difference."


He said morale is still high, but he doesn't take for granted the service of U.S. troops. He said the war has spread forces thin.

"I worry about the toll this pace of operations is taking on them, our equipment and on our ability to respond to other crises and contingencies," he said.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2007 01:09 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:

...
Unsourced allegations lacking in content. You'll have to do better then this; there is a vast wealth of material by and about Gore online, so no transcription is necessary.

Cycloptichorn

Read his books! If those books were online, you could avoid transcription and resort merely to reading and copying excerpts on line.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jul, 2007 01:11 pm
ican711nm wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:

...
Unsourced allegations lacking in content. You'll have to do better then this; there is a vast wealth of material by and about Gore online, so no transcription is necessary.

Cycloptichorn

Read his books! If those books were online, you could avoid transcription and resort merely to reading and copying excerpts on line.


I have read some of them. However, as the person who is making the affirmative argument that Gore is illogical, the burden of providing proof of this argument is upon you, not me.

Please produce evidence of illogic, or withdraw your accusation.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
 

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