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THE US, THE UN AND IRAQ, ELEVENTH THREAD

 
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jul, 2007 03:49 pm
Quote:
Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant to step over the ocean and crush us at a blow? Never! All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined, with all their treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest, with a Bonaparte for a commander, could not by force take a drink from the Ohio, or make a track on the Blue Ridge, in a trial of a thousand years. At what point then, is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide.
Abraham Lincoln
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jul, 2007 04:34 pm
book cover of Denesh D'Souza's THE ENEMY AT HOME
Quote:
Whenever Muslims charge that the war on terror is really a war against Islam, Americans hasten to assure them they are wrong. Yet as Dinesh D'Souza argues in this powerful and timely polemic, there really is a war against Islam. Only this war is not being waged by Christian conservatives bent on a moral crusade to impose democracy abroad, but by the American cultural left, which for years has been vigorously exporting its domestic war against religion and traditional morality to the rest of the world.

D'Souza contends that the cultural left is responsible for 9/11 in two ways: by fostering a decadent and depraved American culture that angers and repulses other societies--especially traditional and religious ones--and by promoting, at home and abroad, an anti-American attitude that blames America for all the problems of the world.

Islamic anti-Americanism is not merely a reaction to U.S. foreign policy but is also rooted in a revulsion against what Muslims perceive to be the atheism and moral depravity of American popular culture. Muslims and other traditional people around the world allege that secular American values are being imposed on their societies and these values undermine religous belief, weakon the traditional family, and corrupt the innocense of children. But it is not "America" that is doing this to them, it is the American cultural left. What traditional societies consider repulsive and immoral, the cultuural left considers progressive and liberating.

Taking issue with those on the right who speak of a "clash of civilizations," D'Souza argues that the war on terror is really a war for the hearts and minds of traditional Muslims--and traditional peoples everywhere. The only way to win the struggle with radical Islam is to convince traditional Muslims that America is on their side.

We are accustomed to thinking of the war on terror and the culture war as two distinct separate struggles. D'Souza shows that they are really one and the same. Conservatives must recognize that the left is now allied with the Islamic radicals in a combined effort to defeat Bush's war on terror. A whole new strategy is therefore needed to fight both wars. "In order to defeat the Islamic radicals abroad," D'Souza writes, "we must defeat the enemy at home."
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jul, 2007 04:36 pm
Report: Iraqi base shortages herald big problems
Posted 13m ago



The assessment, delivered by Stuart W. Bowen Jr., the Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction, said the Al Rasheed Brigade facility was not receiving enough electrical power from the city grid and was relying on generators. But contractors were not supplying enough fuel to keep the five generators going, leading to failures in the wastewater processing and refrigeration systems.

In the most significant incident, the report said 300 Iraqis were hospitalized with intestinal illnesses after eating bad food. The report added that "emergency medical care is severely affected by insufficient power."

To compensate for the lack of fuel, the report said, portable generators have been "jury-rigged" to individual buildings and created potential fire hazards. The unused equipment will deteriorate, particularly if the Iraqis keep turning it on and off to save fuel.

The report recommended that officials better coordinate with the ministers of oil and finance to make sure the military gets a continuous supply of the fuel.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jul, 2007 04:48 pm
This line invalidates anything else D'Souza might have to say:

Quote:
Conservatives must recognize that the left is now allied with the Islamic radicals in a combined effort to defeat Bush's war on terror.


He's just another Right-wing nutjob, with a unique shtick. You lower yourself by even quoting him, ICan.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jul, 2007 04:53 pm
ican has already lowered himself too low for anything said by anybody else will be elevated. ican uses straw man examples like he's a kid in a candy store; without a penny in his pocket.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jul, 2007 05:00 pm
It doesn't matter what the American People and the congresss wants, or what general Petraeus says, or what the world-at-large are saying - to bring our troops home, because we're staying as long as Bush is president. All Petreaus has to do to lose his job is to say we're losing in Iraq. I don't think he has the ethics or guts to tell the truth.


0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jul, 2007 06:20 pm
Quote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayyid_Qutb
Sayyid Qutb
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Sayyid Qutb

Sayyid Qutb ...; 9 October 1906[1] - 29 August 1966) was an Egyptian author, Islamist, and the leading intellectual of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood in the 1950s and 60s. He is best known in the Muslim world for his work on the social and political role of Islamic fundamentalism, particularly in his books Social Justice and Ma'alim fi-l-Tariq (Milestones). His extensive Quranic commentary Fi zilal al-Qur'an (In the shades of the Qur'an) has contributed significantly to modern perceptions of Islamic concepts such as jihad, jahiliyyah, and ummah. He is best known in the West as "the man whose ideas would shape Al Qaeda." [2] Alternative spellings of his first and last names include Saïd, Syed, Koteb (rather common), Qutub, Kotb, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayyid_Qutb#Works
Whether he esposed dictatorship, or later rule by Sharia law with essentially no government at all, defensive jihad or later offensive jihad, Sayyid Qutb's mature political views always centered on Islam - Islam as a complete system of morality, justice and governance, whose Sharia laws and principles should be the sole basis of governance and everything else in life. In an earlier work [18], Qutb described military jihad as defensive, Islam's campaign to protect itself. [19] On the issue of Islamic governance, Qutb differed with many modernist and reformist Muslims who claimed democracy was Islamic because the Quranic institution of Shura supported elections and democracy. Qutb pointed out that the Shura chapter of the Qur'an was revealed during the Mekkan period, and therefore, it does not deal with the problem of government. [20] It makes no reference to elections and calls only for the ruler to consult some of the ruled, as a particular case of the general rule of Shura, [21] and argued a `just dictatorship` would be more Islamic. [22] Qutb also opposed the then popular ideology of Arab nationalism, having become disillusioned with the 1952 Nasser Revolution and having been exposed to the regime's practices of arbitrary arrest, torture, and deadly violence during his imprisonment.

[edit] Jahiliyyah vs. freedom
This exposure to abuse of power undoubtedly contributed to the ideas in his famous prison-written Islamic manifesto Ma'alim fi-l-Tariq where he advocated a political system the opposite of dictatorship. There Qutb argued:

The Muslim world had ceased to be and reverted to pre-Islamic ignorance known as jahiliyyah, because of the lack of sharia law. All non-Islamic states are thus illegitimate, including that of his native land Egypt

Rather than rule by a pious few, (or democratic representation [23]), Muslims should resist any system where men are in "servitude to other men" -- i.e. obey other men -- as un-Islamic and a violation of God's sovereignty (Hakamiyya) over all of creation. A truly Islamic polity would not even have theocratic rulers since Muslims would need neither judges nor police to obey divine law [24] [25]

The way to bring about this freedom was for a revolutionary vanguard [26] to fight jahiliyyah with a two-fold approach: preaching, and abolishing the organizations and authorities of the Jahili system by "physical power and Jihaad."

The vanguard movement would grow until it formed a truly Islamic community, then spread throughout the Islamic homeland and finally throughout the entire world. Islamically-correct Jihaad now being interpreted by Qutb as offensive, no longer "narrowly" defensive as those "defeated by the attacks of the treacherous Orientalists!" believe. [27]

Qutb emphasized this struggle would be anything but easy. True Islam would transform every aspect of society, eliminating everything non-Muslim. True Muslims could look forward to lives of "poverty, difficulty, frustration, torment and sacrifice." Jahili erzatz-Muslims, Jews and Westerners would all fight and conspire against Islam and the elimination of jahiliyyah.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jul, 2007 06:31 pm
Quote:
"The Head of the Snake"
...
The general charge that fundamentalists make against despots past and present is that in exchange for U.S. military and political support for their regime, they open up their countries to the polluting influences of American social institutions and popular culture. Fundamentalists charge that in every case, the United States seeks to strengthen those forces that are operating in the Muslim world to secularize the society, destroy the family, corrupt the children, and degrade the culture.
0 Replies
 
Amigo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jul, 2007 06:36 pm
God bless the Iraqi people.

God damn the war profiteers.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 18 Jul, 2007 10:46 pm
How many mistakes and hiding those mistakes by our military be tolerated?





Advertisement


Dole: Notify Marines of toxic exposure

The Associated Press
Military officials should directly inform hundreds of thousands of Marine families and workers that they drank and washed in toxin-contaminated water at Camp Lejeune in North Carolina, Sen. Elizabeth Dole said Wednesday.
Dole wants to force the secretary of the Navy to locate and notify Marines and civilians who were exposed to the water up until the mid-1980s when the base shut down contaminated wells.

The notification requirement was in an amendment she offered Wednesday to a broad military money bill before the legislation was pulled from the floor in a showdown over Iraq. The larger bill may be back as soon as September.

Government health officials have estimated as many as 1 million people may have been exposed during three decades of water contamination going back to 1957, a situation examined in a recent Associated Press investigation. The numbers include Marines in barracks and military families living on the sprawling Atlantic training and deployment base, and civilians who worked there.

"We cannot correct a past mistake by pretending that this contamination did not take place, and we cannot avoid the hard and unpleasant facts associated with this tragic situation," said Dole, R-N.C.
Her measure also aims to help answer questions about health effects by having those exposed give government health investigators information on their illnesses.

Declining to comment specifically on Dole's proposal, spokeswoman Capt. Amy Malugani said the Marines "continue to work closely" with Dole and other lawmakers on the issue.

The Corps is seeking "ways to improve and enhance our communications and notification processes," she said. The base in 1985 told residents about "minute, trace amounts" of contamination, when some levels had reached more than 200 times today's safe drinking water standards.

The groundwater contamination stemmed from industrial activity and hazardous waste on the base and from a neighboring dry cleaner. Trichloroethylene and tetrachloroethylene, solvents used for degreasing and dry cleaning, and other toxic chemicals were identified in water sampling that eventually led to the well closures.

Studies have linked the chemicals to leukemia, non-Hodgkin's lymphoma, birth defects and several other cancers.
Dole's amendment differs from an earlier measure that allows the military to reach out through the media rather than directly notifying those exposed, and requires notification only after completion of a government health study.

Dole's new measure would require notification to begin shortly after the bill's passage.

"Enough is enough," Dole said. "Our Marines and their families must be notified of what has happened."

Officials at the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry said they received some 1,500 calls from citizens who didn't know of the contamination until they read about it in an Associated Press investigative story and subsequent coverage of a congressional hearing in June. Many of those who called were former base residents who wondered if their cancers and other illnesses were related to it.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2007 10:08 am
Quote:
Insurgents form political front to plan for US pullout
Leaders of Iraqi groups say attacks will go on until Americans leave

Seumas Milne in Damascus
Thursday July 19, 2007
The Guardian


Seven of the most important Sunni-led insurgent organisations fighting the US occupation in Iraq have agreed to form a public political alliance with the aim of preparing for negotiations in advance of an American withdrawal, their leaders have told the Guardian.

In their first interview with the western media since the US-British invasion of 2003, leaders of three of the insurgent groups - responsible for thousands of attacks against US and Iraqi armed forces and police - said they would continue their armed resistance until all foreign troops were withdrawn from Iraq, and denounced al-Qaida for sectarian killings and suicide bombings against civilians.

Speaking in Damascus, the spokesmen for the three groups - the 1920 Revolution Brigades, Ansar al-Sunna and Iraqi Hamas - said they planned to hold a congress to launch a united front and appealed to Arab governments, other governments and the UN to help them establish a permanent political presence outside Iraq.

Abu Ahmad, spokesman for Iraqi Hamas said: "Peaceful resistance will not end the occupation. The US made clear it intended to stay for many decades. Now it is a common view in the resistance that they will start to withdraw within a year. "

The move represents a dramatic change of strategy for the mainstream Iraqi insurgency, whose leadership has remained shadowy and has largely restricted communication with the world to brief statements on the internet and Arabic media.

The last three months have been the bloodiest for US forces, with 331 deaths and 2,029 wounded, as the 28,000-strong "surge" in troop numbers exposes them to more attacks.

Leaders of the three groups, who did not use their real names in the interview, said the new front, which brings together the main Sunni-based armed organisations except al-Qaida and the Ba'athists, had agreed the main planks of a joint political programme, including a commitment to free Iraq from foreign troops, rejection of cooperation with parties involved in political institutions set up under the occupation and a declaration that decisions and agreements made by the US occupation and Iraqi government are null and void.

The aim of the alliance - which includes a range of Islamist and nationalist-leaning groups and is planned to be called the Political Office for the Iraqi Resistance - is to link up with other anti-occupation groups in Iraq to negotiate with the Americans in anticipation of an early US withdrawal. The programme envisages a temporary technocratic government to run the country during a transition period until free elections can be held.

The insurgent groups deny support from any foreign government, including Syria, but claim they have been offered and rejected funding and arms from Iran. They say they have been under pressure from Saudi Arabia and Turkey to unite. "We are the only resistance movement in modern history which has received no help or support from any other country," Abdallah Suleiman Omary, head of the political department of the 1920 Revolution Brigades, told the Guardian. "The reason is we are fighting America."

All three Sunni-based resistance leaders say they are acutely aware of the threat posed by sectarian division to the future of Iraq and emphasised the importance of working with Shia groups - but rejected any link with the Shia militia and parties because of their participation in the political institutions set up by the Americans and their role in sectarian killings.

Abd al-Rahman al-Zubeidy, political spokesman of Ansar al-Sunna, a salafist (purist Islamic) group with a particularly violent reputation in Iraq, said his organisation had split over relations with al-Qaida, whose members were mostly Iraqi, but its leaders largely foreigners.

"Resistance isn't just about killing Americans without aims or goals. Our people have come to hate al-Qaida, which gives the impression to the outside world that the resistance in Iraq are terrorists. We are against indiscriminate killing, fighting should be concentrated only on the enemy," he said. He added: "A great gap has opened up between Sunni and Shia under the occupation and al-Qaida has contributed to that."

Wayne White, of Washington's Middle East Institute and a former expert adviser to the Iraq Study Group, said it was unclear, given the diversity within the Sunni Arab insurgency, what influence the new grouping would have on the ground.

He added: "This does reveal that despite the widening cooperation on the part of some Sunni Arab insurgent groups with US forces against al-Qaida in recent months, such cooperation could prove very shortlived if the US does not make clear that it has a credible exit strategy.

"With the very real potential for a more full-blown civil war breaking out in the wake of a substantial reduction of the US military presence in Iraq, Shia and Kurds appreciate that the increased ability of Sunni Arabs to organise politically and assemble in larger armed formations as a result of such cooperation could confront them with a considerably more formidable challenge as time goes on."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,2129675,00.html

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2007 10:22 am
Hard to disagree with this fellow's logic.

Quote:
Iraq hasn't even begunLooking back over a quarter of a century of chronicling current affairs, I cannot recall a more comprehensive and avoidable man-made disaster.


LA Times

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2007 10:35 am
All these analysis on Iraq is meaningless, because Bush already said we're staying in Iraq until we succeed.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2007 11:28 am
Quote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_thought_and_legacy_of_Khomeini
Political thought and legacy of Khomeini
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ayatollah Khomeini
Further information: Ruhollah Khomeini
The Political thought and legacy of Grand Ayatollah Seyyed Ruhollah Mustafavi Khomeini refers to the religious and political ideas and legacy of that leader of the Iranian Revolution, one of the major revolutions of the 20th century. Under his leadership, Iran replaced its millennia-old monarchy with theocracy, currently the only such ruling system in the world. Khomeini brought about a major paradigm shift in Shia religion, declaring Islamic jurists the true holders of political, not just religious, authority; who are owed obediance as "an expression of obedience to God," [1] and whose rule has "precedence over all secondary ordinances [in Islam] such as prayer, fasting, and pilgrimage." [2]
Outside of Iran Khomeini's influence has been less, though it has been felt among the large Shia populations of Iraq and Lebanon.

http://al-islam.org/al-tawhid/default.asp?url=greater_jihad.htm
Another Warning
Your future is dark: numerous enemies are surrounding you on every side and from all strata; dangerous fiendish plans are ready to be enacted which will destroy you and the seminaries. The colonialists dream about what they will do with you, they have deep dreams about what they will do with Islam and the Muslims. With the pretence of Islam, they have drawn up dangerous plans for you. Only in the shade of refinement, preparation, and the proper arrangement and order will you be able to push away these corruptions and difficulties, and frustrate the plans of the colonialists.
0 Replies
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2007 12:10 pm
D'Sousa, TEAH, page 179, wrote:
According to Islam, Judaism and Christianity are incomplete but genuine revelations. As monotheists, Jews and Christians have historically been entitled to Muslim respect and every protection. In every Islamic empire, Jews and Christians were permitted to practice their religion and in no Muslim regime has it ever been considered legitimate to kill them. By contrast, polytheists and atheists have always been anathema to Islam. The Koran says: "Fight the pagans altogether as they fight you altogether," and, "Slay the idolaters wherever you find them." These passages, which bin Laden frequently quotes, do not refer to Christians, because Christians are not considered pagans or idiolaters. Rather, they refer to those, like the bedouins of ancient Arabia, who worship many gods or no gods. Muslims are commanded to fight these unbelievers, especially when they threaten the House of Islam.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2007 05:21 pm
Talk about "real fear," ican just doesn't understand imaginary fear and (gripped by) real fear.


U.S. officials say Iraq gripped by fear
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2007 06:01 pm
It's already in the realm of the ridiculous. The American People by a majority want our troops home which is common knowledge around this whole world, and some Bush lieutenant blames Clinton for planning our troops to withdraw from Iraq.

Pentagon rebukes Sen. Clinton on Iraq

By DEVLIN BARRETT, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 1 minute ago



WASHINGTON - The Pentagon told Democratic presidential front-runner Hillary Rodham Clinton that her questions about how the U.S. plans to eventually withdraw from Iraq boosts enemy propaganda.


In a stinging rebuke to a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, Undersecretary of Defense Eric Edelman responded to questions Clinton raised in May in which she urged the Pentagon to start planning now for the withdrawal of American forces.

A copy of Edelman's response, dated July 16, was obtained Thursday by The Associated Press.

"Premature and public discussion of the withdrawal of U.S. forces from Iraq reinforces enemy propaganda that the United States will abandon its allies in Iraq, much as we are perceived to have done in Vietnam, Lebanon and Somalia," Edelman wrote.

He added that "such talk understandably unnerves the very same Iraqi allies we are asking to assume enormous personal risks."

Clinton spokesman Philippe Reines called Edelman's answer "at once outrageous and dangerous," and said the senator would respond to his boss, Defense Secretary Robert Gates.

Clinton has privately and publicly pushed Gates and Joint Chiefs Chairman Peter Pace two months ago to begin drafting the plans for what she said will be a complicated withdrawal of troops, trucks and equipment.

"If we're not planning for it, it will be difficult to execute it in a safe and efficacious way," she said then.

The strong wording of the response is unusual, particularly for a missive to a member of the Senate committee with oversight of the Defense Department and its budget.

Clinton aides said the letter ignored important military matters and focuses instead on political payback.

"Redeploying out of Iraq with the same combination of arrogance and incompetence with which the Bush administration deployed our young men and women into Iraq is completely unacceptable, and our troops deserve far better," said Reines, who said military leaders should offer a withdrawal plan rather than "a political plan to attack those who question them."
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jul, 2007 05:20 am
Quote:
"Premature and public discussion of the withdrawal of U.S. forces from Iraq reinforces enemy propaganda that the United States will abandon its allies in Iraq, much as we are perceived to have done in Vietnam, Lebanon and Somalia," Edelman wrote.

He added that "such talk understandably unnerves the very same Iraqi allies we are asking to assume enormous personal risks."



Oh yeah. Let's not make plans for a withdrawal. America's allies in Iraq would feel abandoned. They are practically begging the US to stay:

Quote:
On Saturday, Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki stated "We say in full confidence that we are able, God willing, to take the responsibility completely in running the security file if the international forces withdraw at any time they want."



And of course, when you have to decide whom to trust - the Pentagon or the American allies in Iraq - on the question whether or not the very same Iraqi allies are unnerved by the mere prospect of US troops planning to withdraw eventually, I'd certainly pick the Pentagon's version.

Pentagon's such a good track record, too.

I'd trust 'em.

Any time.
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jul, 2007 06:51 am
Deals in Iraq Make Friends of Enemies

US to Block Assets of Iraq Destabilizers, US Exempted
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Jul, 2007 07:48 am
ican

I see you still like to read stuff from that right-wing looney D'Sousa.

Tell me ican, what do you think; if we pull out of Iraq will AQ take over the country?
0 Replies
 
 

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