a short assessment of iraq benchmarks . i was , of course , tempted to do a bit of highlighting ; i refrained , except for the last paragraph .
hbg
Quote:GOAL: Laws to begin disarming militias and demanding loyalty to the central government.
PROGRESS: Too early to assess.
REALITY CHECK: Such reforms are extremely difficult to achieve and directly challenge Iraqi cultural and tribal traditions.
source :
IRAQ BENCHMARKS
cicerone imposter wrote:Bush Lies In State Of The Union Speech
Bush: "By the year 2042, the entire [social security] system would be exhausted and bankrupt."
...
Bush didn't lie, because he believes what he said. Furthermore, if the social security system is not fixed long before 2042, it will not receive adequate taxes to pay its retirement obligations.
It really is a straight forward calculation to show that as the size of the social security paying population decreases (as forecast), and the retired social security receiving population increases (as forecast), the system will run out of money and will have to be funded by higher social security taxes and/or higher other taxes. Either or both social security taxes or other taxes will have to be increased to levels intolerably confiscatory to the working population. The system must be fixed long before that happens.
Reality is becoming an increasingly hard sell. It must be stamped out. Congress must pass a law to do just that. 
Ignorance doesn't exonerate what is told as fact but are in fact lies. People have the responsibility to check out their facts before sharing it with others - that's especially true of presidents and other leaders of responsibility.
Their mistakes/lies can kill thousands of people or cost billions of dollars.
could ican possible have missed this statement by dr. fingar ?
Quote:In prepared testimony, Fingar reports there have been "few appreciable gains" in the political situation following the surge.
and it seems there were not many (any ?) gains BEFORE the surge either , if my memory isn't too faulty yet .
the mision was accomplished long ago and still , every day more americans and iraqis are dying by continued violence - something doesn't make sense .
hbg
cicerone imposter wrote:Ignorance doesn't exonerate what is told as fact but are in fact lies. People have the responsibility to check out their facts before sharing it with others - that's especially true of presidents and other leaders of responsibility.
Their mistakes/lies can kill thousands of people or cost billions of dollars.
I agree that ignorance doesn't exonerate what is told as fact but are in fact
falsities. Persons doing that are demonstrating their
incompetence.
One tells a
lie when one tells a falsity
knowing it is a falsity. A person is innocent of lying until
proven guilty of lying.
Saying a person is lying when knowing you cannot read that person's mind is itself lying.
Your repeated accusations that Bush lied or is a liar are your repeated lies.
hamburger wrote:could ican possible have missed this statement by dr. fingar ?
Quote:In prepared testimony, Fingar reports there have been "few appreciable gains" in the political situation following the surge.
and it seems there were not many (any ?) gains BEFORE the surge either , if my memory isn't too faulty yet .
the mision was accomplished long ago and still , every day more americans and iraqis are dying by continued violence - something doesn't make sense .
hbg
1. I did not miss that statement of Fingar's.
2. Bush said the samething in his press conference.
http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=2756841#2756841
President Bush's Press conference, July 12, 2007
3. The sign suspended across the bridge of that aircraft carrier was not referring to Bush's mission as the incompetent opinion news media claimed. That sign was referring to the crew and their aircraft carrier's mission. That mission
was accomplished when Saddam was removed and they headed for home. Why do I think that? I think that because Bush
repeatedly said both before and after the invasion of Iraq that it would be difficult and take a long time to secure a democracy in Iraq. He continues to repeatedly say that (see 2.). Unfortunately, he was and probably is right about that.
Here's some of Bush's non-lies.Here's the lie:
Bush responded,
Here's what Bush said:
Stay the Course.
BUSH: We will stay the course. [8/30/06]
BUSH: We will stay the course, we will complete the job in Iraq. [8/4/05]
BUSH: We will stay the course until the job is done, Steve. And the temptation is to try to get the President or somebody to put a timetable on the definition of getting the job done. We're just going to stay the course. [12/15/03]
BUSH: And my message today to those in Iraq is: We'll stay the course. [4/13/04]
BUSH: And that's why we're going to stay the course in Iraq. And that's why when we say something in Iraq, we're going to do it. [4/16/04]
BUSH: And so we've got tough action in Iraq. But we will stay the course. [4/5/04]
TORTURE
We are finding terrorists and bringing them to justice. We are gathering information about where the terrorists may be hiding. We are trying to disrupt their plots and plans. Anything we do ... to that end in this effort, any activity we conduct, is within the law. We do not torture." - President Bush (Nov. 7, 2005).
THE FACTS
Quote:The sign suspended across the bridge of that aircraft carrier was not referring to Bush's mission as the incompetent opinion news media claimed. That sign was referring to the crew and their aircraft carrier's mission.
Bull sh*t. You can't actually believe this idiocy.
Cycloptichorn
From CNN:
White House pressed on 'mission accomplished' sign
Navy suggested it, White House made it, both sides say
From Dana Bash
CNN Washington Bureau
Wednesday, October 29, 2003 Posted: 9:18 AM EST (1418 GMT)
President Bush addresses the nation from aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln on May 1 with the banner in the background.
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- What was once viewed as a premier presidential photo op continues to dog President Bush six months after he landed on an aircraft carrier to declare "one victory" in the war on terrorism and an end to major combat operations in Iraq.
Attention turned Tuesday to a giant "Mission Accomplished" sign that stood behind Bush aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln when he gave the speech May 1.
The president told reporters the sign was put up by the Navy, not the White House.
"I know it was attributed somehow to some ingenious advance man from my staff -- they weren't that ingenious, by the way," the president said Tuesday.
Now his statements are being parsed even further.
Navy and administration sources said that though the banner was the Navy's idea, the White House actually made it.
Bush offered the explanation after being asked whether his speech declaring an end to major combat in Iraq under the "Mission Accomplished" banner was premature, given that U.S. casualties in Iraq since then have surpassed those before it.
During the speech in May, Bush said, "The battle of Iraq is one victory in a war on terror that began on September 11, 2001, and still goes on."
The speech and events surrounding it were widely publicized and served as the symbolic end to the war in Iraq.
DOMESTIC SPYING
During the 2004 campaign, Bush claimed "Now, by the way, any time you hear the United States government talking about wiretap, it requires -- a wiretap requires a court order. Nothing has changed, by the way. When we're talking about chasing down terrorists, we're talking about getting a court order before we do so." See video.
The Bush administration has offered the following justifications for its spying on U.S. citizens:
No Time for Warrants It could not wait to get a warrant because it needed "to move quickly to detect" plotting of terrorism between people in the United States and abroad. (President Bush 12/19/05)
Congress Gave Authority: "authorization to use force, which was passed by the Congress in the days following September 11th, constitutes . . . authorization. . . to engage in this kind of signals intelligence. (Attorney General Gonzales 12/19/05)
Eavesdropping Key To Thwarting Terrorist Attacks: "This authorization is a vital tool in our war against the terrorists," Bush said in December. "It is critical to saving American lives." Vice President Cheney claimed wiretapping Americans had "saved thousands of lives." "It is, I'm convinced, one of the reasons we haven't been attacked in the past four years," he added.
- A Program "Very Limited In Nature": The NSA program is one that listens to a few numbers, called from the outside of the United States and of known al Qaeda or affiliate people," Bush has said. "[O]bviously I had to make the difficult decision between balancing civil liberties and, on a limited basis -- and I mean limited basis -- try to find out the intention of the enemy." "It is very limited in nature," Scott McClellan claimed
- Could Have Prevented 9-11. During his State of the Union Address (SOU), Bush claimed "We now know that two of the hijackers in the United States placed telephone calls to al Qaeda operatives overseas. But we did not know about their plans until it was too late. So to prevent another attack -- based on authority given to me by the Constitution and by statute -- I have authorized a terrorist surveillance program to aggressively pursue the international communications of suspected al Qaeda operatives and affiliates to and from America. -- Previous Presidents Have Used Same Authority. Bush also argued in the (SOU) that "[p]revious Presidents have used the same constitutional authority I have, and federal courts have approved the use of that authority."
THE FACTS
Campaign Statement: Bush's statement is false, since he was conducting wiretaps without warrants.
No Time for Warrants: The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act allows the President to seek a warrant up to 3 days AFTER initiating the wiretap. The President never sought any such authority after the fact for this program.
Congress Gave Authority: The administration requested the ability to conduct warrantless searches as part of the September 11th resolution, but Congress rejected this. In fact, Gonzales admitted that he was told by "certain members of Congress" that "that would be difficult if not impossible."
Eavesdropping Key To Thwarting Terrorist Attacks. A New York Times report debunks the administration's claim that the program is vital to America's national security. In fact, the flood of "unfiltered information" from the NSA program "was swamping [FBI] investigators" in the months after 9/11. "There were no imminent plots - not inside the United States," a former F.B.I. official said. "The information was so thin," one prosecut"and the connections were so remote, that they never led to anything, and I never heard any follow-up." Additionally, "some F.B.I. officials and prosecutors also thought the checks, which sometimes involved interviews by agents, were pointless intrusions on Americans' privacy."or said,
Iraq PM: Country can manage without U.S.
By BUSHRA JUHI, Associated Press Writer
2 hours, 45 minutes ago
BAGHDAD - Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki said Saturday that the Iraqi army and police are capable of keeping security in the country when American troops leave "any time they want," though he acknowledged the forces need further weapons and training.
Cycloptichorn wrote:Quote:The sign suspended across the bridge of that aircraft carrier was not referring to Bush's mission as the incompetent opinion news media claimed. That sign was referring to the crew and their aircraft carrier's mission.
Bull sh*t. You can't actually believe this idiocy.
Cycloptichorn
It's reality, not idiocy! All rational observers of Bush on that carrier knew damn well he and that sign were
not talking about our mission in Iraq being accomplished. He was talking about the mission of the aircraft carrier crew and their carrier being accomplished. The incompetent opinion news media has successfully led you down the bunny trail. You can leave that trail any time you want ... if you have the courage.
Here for those unable to think for themselves, are some Bush quotes making it real clear Bush believed the Iraq war was not going to be a brief military episode ending with Saddam's removal.
Before we invaded Iraq:
Quote:
President's 2003 STATE OF THE UNION speech:
http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1839659#1839659
Our war against terror is a contest of will in which perseverance is power. In the ruins of two towers, at the western wall of the Pentagon, on a field in Pennsylvania, this nation made a pledge, and we renew that pledge tonight:
Whatever the duration of this struggle, and whatever the difficulties, we will not permit the triumph of violence in the affairs of men -- free people will set the course of history. (Applause.)
After we invaded Iraq:
Quote:
President's 2006 STATE OF THE UNION speech:
http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1840205#1840205
No one can deny the success of freedom, but some men rage and fight against it. And one of the main sources of reaction and opposition is radical Islam -- the perversion by a few of a noble faith into an ideology of terror and death. Terrorists like bin Laden are serious about mass murder -- and
all of us must take their declared intentions seriously. They seek to impose a heartless system of totalitarian control throughout the Middle East, and arm themselves with weapons of mass murder.
In a time of testing, we cannot find security by abandoning our commitments and retreating within our borders. If we were to leave these vicious attackers alone, they would not leave us alone. They would simply move the battlefield to our own shores. There is no peace in retreat. And there is no honor in retreat. By allowing radical Islam to work its will -- by leaving an assaulted world to fend for itself -- we would signal to all that we no longer believe in our own ideals, or even in our own courage. But our enemies and our friends can be certain: The United States will not retreat from the world, and we will never surrender to evil. (Applause.)
Our own generation is in a long war against a determined enemy -- a war that will be fought by Presidents of both parties, who will need steady bipartisan support from the Congress. And tonight I ask for yours. Together, let us protect our country, support the men and women who defend us, and lead this world toward freedom. (Applause.)
From the White House web site:
President Bush Announces Major Combat Operations in Iraq Have Ended
Remarks by the President from the USS Abraham Lincoln
At Sea Off the Coast of San Diego, California
THE PRESIDENT: Thank you all very much. Admiral Kelly, Captain Card, officers and sailors of the USS Abraham Lincoln, my fellow Americans: Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed. (Applause.) And now our coalition is engaged in securing and reconstructing that country.
In this battle, we have fought for the cause of liberty, and for the peace of the world. Our nation and our coalition are proud of this accomplishment -- yet, it is you, the members of the United States military, who achieved it. Your courage, your willingness to face danger for your country and for each other, made this day possible. Because of you, our nation is more secure. Because of you, the tyrant has fallen, and Iraq is free. (Applause.)
cicerone imposter wrote:Iraq PM: Country can manage without U.S.
By BUSHRA JUHI, Associated Press Writer
2 hours, 45 minutes ago
BAGHDAD - Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki said Saturday that the Iraqi army and police are capable of keeping security in the country when American troops leave "any time they want," though he acknowledged the forces need further weapons and training.
Wow! If he truly said and thinks that, it's wonderful news. The need for for further weapons and training requires relatively little participation on the USA's part.
Ok, Mr. Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, if you truly believe what you are alleged to have said Saturday, please call your parliament into session, convince a majority to agree with you, and have it pass a resolution saying the same thing. Then the USA can clear out of Iraq ASAP.
wonderful ... wonderful ... wonderful ... God, I hope it's true.
cicerone imposter wrote:From the White House web site:
President Bush Announces Major Combat Operations in Iraq Have Ended
Remarks by the President from the USS Abraham Lincoln
At Sea Off the Coast of San Diego, California
THE PRESIDENT: Thank you all very much. Admiral Kelly, Captain Card, officers and sailors of the USS Abraham Lincoln, my fellow Americans: Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed. (Applause.) And now our coalition is engaged in securing and reconstructing that country.
In this battle, we have fought for the cause of liberty, and for the peace of the world. Our nation and our coalition are proud of this accomplishment -- yet, it is you, the members of the United States military, who achieved it. Your courage, your willingness to face danger for your country and for each other, made this day possible. Because of you, our nation is more secure. Because of you, the tyrant has fallen, and Iraq is free. (Applause.)
Yes indeed! Bush was giving credit where credit was do. The major combat operations in Iraq to remove Saddam's regime were ended then. In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies had prevailed.
And then our coalition became engaged in securing and reconstructing that country. As Bush had predicted, that turned out to be a tougher problem than the battle to remove Saddam's regime.
Only naive or dedicated fools and the incompetent opinion news media interpreted that Bush speech to mean the Iraq war was over.
ican711nm wrote:cicerone imposter wrote:Iraq PM: Country can manage without U.S.
By BUSHRA JUHI, Associated Press Writer
2 hours, 45 minutes ago
BAGHDAD - Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki said Saturday that the Iraqi army and police are capable of keeping security in the country when American troops leave "any time they want," though he acknowledged the forces need further weapons and training.
Wow! If he truly said and thinks that, it's wonderful news. The need for for further weapons and training requires relatively little participation on the USA's part.
Ok, Mr. Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki, if you truly believe what you are alleged to have said Saturday, please call your parliament into session, convince a majority to agree with you, and have it pass a resolution saying the same thing. Then the USA can clear out of Iraq ASAP.
wonderful ... wonderful ... wonderful ... God, I hope it's true.
After they take the whole month of August off they might think about it.
cicerone imposter wrote:
...
Here's the lie:
Bush responded,
...
If Bush did say that falsity, it was obviously at worst a blunder and not a lie. I say obviously since he has stated so many times in public before and after the interview "stay the course," or the equivalent of this quote:
Quote:Our war against terror is a contest of will in which perseverance is power. In the ruins of two towers, at the western wall of the Pentagon, on a field in Pennsylvania, this nation made a pledge, and we renew that pledge tonight: Whatever the duration of this struggle, and whatever the difficulties, we will not permit the triumph of violence in the affairs of men -- free people will set the course of history.
However, perhaps a word or two was left out of the quote of what was actually said between Stephanopoulos and Bush.
By the way, you can provide a complete catalogue of Bush's falsities, and still fail to provide evidence that Bush at the time he said those falsities knew they were falsities: that is, Bush lied. However, if you can supply persuasive evidence you can read Bush's mind, I'll change my mind.
