IT'S TIME FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

The republicans have been trying to sink UHC by telling lies about how the cuts in Medicare will reduce services to seniors. These lies are not supported by AARP or the OMB.

That's not exactly a lie though CI. The plan by Obama and Congress will reduce services to some seniors. Instead of being a lie, it's much more of a half-truth.

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@maporsche,

I'm not sure, but I think CI was talking about Universal Health Care in general, and not specifically about the plan by Obama and Congress.

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@Diest TKO,

I thought so too, but then he mentioned support from AARP, who have only given their support to the plans in congress, which are NOT (unfortunately) Universal Health Care.

He's confusing me.

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@maporsche,

I think he meant that AARP doesn't support the GOP arguments against UHC. I have no knowledge of what AARP's stance is on UHC. If I'm reading CI right, he's simply saying that the GOP's arguments aren't getting the support of the people they are targeting.

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@Diest TKO,

I think he misused "UHC" when talking about the bills in congress.

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LOL. Why am I proxy for CI? Hey! CI! Where are you? Git in here!

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@Diest TKO,

I've been waiting for you to appear TK to ask your opinion on New York voting against homosexual marriage.

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We can talk about that, but let's not derail this thread.

Go here: http://able2know.org/topic/138878-1

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@maporsche,

maporsche, How do you measure "half truths?" Can you back up what you say? How many Americans understand they are "half truths?" How many seniors have you talked to? Are they all knowledgeable about what's being debated in congress on universal health care? Do you?

Do you know how many seniors still believe the government will have death panels?

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@cicerone imposter,

You sound like you want to change the measurement of truthfulness or lying to be based on the perception of the listener as opposed to the accuracy of words that left the speakers mouth.

That is a very, very, bad idea.

The words that you typed are true. Cuts in the medicare program will reduce benefits to seniors. A more specific statement would be "cuts in the medicare advantage program will reduce some of the medicare advantage benefits to the seniors who are participants in the medicare advantage program."

That is my only point of contention with your post. You are engaging in the exact same practices that you claim to oppose when the other side does it. You're not the only one.

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@maporsche,

I don't "want to change the measurement of truthfulness." Truthfulness should stand on its own merits.

I only question how posters use language to infer something that isn't true.

Everybody can also question my posts if they believe I am changing the measurement of "truthfulness." I have no problem with that!

Your wrote:

Quote:

The words that you typed are true. Cuts in the medicare program will reduce benefits to seniors. A more specific statement would be "cuts in the medicare advantage program will reduce some of the medicare advantage benefits to the seniors who are participants in the medicare advantage program."

I agree with your correction. I can even expand on this if you wish.

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@cicerone imposter,

Why would death panels not be the scientific way to go in the interests of industrial efficiency from a materialist perspective? Don't we already have a version of them. The aging process is a built in death panal in evolution. Elephants lose their teeth and lions get a bit stiff in the joints and that's the end for them.

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@cicerone imposter,

I think it's helpful to call out these instances (where someone is telling a half truth); I just think it's inaccurate to label them as "lies". "Half-truth" has a dictionary definition. Here it is:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/half-truth

Quote:

Main Entry: half"truth
Pronunciation: \-ˌtrüth\
Function: noun
Date: 1658
1 : a statement that is only partially true
2 : a statement that mingles truth and falsehood with deliberate intent to deceive

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Is all this arguing about how to argue merely a method of steering around the main issues and pretending to be in the debate when you're not.

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@spendius,

spendius wrote:

Is all this arguing about how to argue merely a method of steering around the main issues and pretending to be in the debate when you're not.

Yeah, maybe.

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@maporsche,

It becomes "lies" when half-truths give the wrong message that is accepted as the whole truth, and is done to mislead.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

It becomes "lies" when half-truths give the wrong message that is accepted as the whole truth, and is done to mislead.

By definition, that's every time.

Maybe you should write to webster to have them update their definition.

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@maporsche,

Then your perceptions about the "real" world doesn't exist. Science by its very nature requires observation and repeatability of results for it to be truthful. There are many "truths" that we believe in about our physical world that will exist whether some people believe them or not.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

Then your perceptions about the "real" world doesn't exist. Science by its very nature requires observation and repeatability of results for it to be truthful. There are many "truths" that we believe in about our physical world that will exist whether some people believe them or not.

Science also requires words and measurements to have specific meanings. That's all that I'm trying to uphold here.

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@maporsche,

Words and measurements are required tools of science.

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IT'S TIME FOR UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE

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