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Republicans branching out to old Dem stronghold.

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jul, 2003 04:22 pm
Thanks, will be a good reading during the survey.
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snood
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jul, 2003 04:29 pm
au1929 wrote:
Frank
Quote:
The government would do well to get out of the marriage business all together -- but if it chooses to remain in it, it should be blind to things like race, ethnicity, gender and the like.


There are no restrictions relative to race or ethnicity. As for gender as long as there is one of each it is perfectly acceptable. If not a trip to Canada is in order.


hear, hear (or is that here, here?)
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jul, 2003 04:51 pm
Walter, here is a link for your:

The Library of Congress Legislation Section[/color]

and here is a link for historical documents, which includes the Constitution:

Historical Documents[/color]

When you read the copy of the constitution at that site, you will see portions which are underlined, and function as a link. The link takes you to an amendment of the constitution which has superceded the portion of the constitution which you found underlined--a very useful feature. Of course, it helps if you know what you are looking for in the first place.

I mentioned above case of Marbury v. Madison. Mr. Marbury had been appointed a Justice of the Peace by the John Adams administration (in the District of Columbia--as it is not a part of any state, the Federal government has traditionally appointed the municipal officers). Jefferson was elected President, and appointed James Madison as his Secretary of State, and Madison refused to deliver to Mr. Marbury the commission issued by Mr. Adams. Marbury brought suit against Mr. Madison, as the responsible representative in the case. The relevant portion of the constitution concerning the Federal Courts, Article III, reads in part:

"In all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, and those in which a State shall be Party, the supreme Court shall have original Jurisdiction."

Therefore, the case went immediately to the Supreme Court. The Chief Justice was John Marshall. Marshall and his companions on the Court, in pursuance of the Judiary Act, also sat at that time as the circuit judges, and were all dedicated to keeping the courts above politics--which was very much against the trend of the times. Marshall was a very careful lawyer indeed. The Federalists were a party on death's doorstep, although no one knew that at the time. Jefferson's Republican party would within a few years, be the only party in the country. Marshall did his level best to keep the judiciary out of the bitter, even vicious political struggles of the day--and this case was tailor made for a man of such meticulous mind, who wished to stake out the "moral high ground" for the Federal judiciary.

Marshall proceeded in the anciently traditional manner of precedential jurisprudence. In his opinion, he first examined whether or not Mr. Marbury had a right to have his commission delivered to him. This was the finding of fact. His argument was constitutionally unassailable, something which Madison undoubtedly knew--as he was a man of considerable intellect, and a lawyer not less careful than Marshall. I cannot imagine that any of this episode was pleasant for him. Having arrived at the conclusion as a finding of fact that Mr. Marbury was entitled to the delivery of his commission or a copy from the record, basing this upon Article II, Section 3, which reads, in part:

". . . he [i.e., the President] shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed, and shall Commission all the Officers of the United States."

Marshall then asserted, correctly, upon the finding of fact, that the remedy would be a writ of mandamus for the delivery of the commission or a copy from the record. He then inquires rhetorically whether or not the Supreme Court has the authority to issue the writ. What follows is one of the mostly closely and elegantly reasoned passages in the history of Supreme Court opinions, and is without any doubt the most important opinion ever issued by any Justice of that Court. Very carefully, Marshall makes the contention that a people making a social contract for the governance of their nation, who begin that process with the writing of a constitution, which is subsequently adopted by ratification, have intended that document to be the supreme law of the land. If you refer back to the portion of Article III which i have quoted above, you will see that this "supreme law" accords the Supreme Court authority as the court of original jurisdiction in the types of cases outlined there, and the preceding text of the Article lists those matters in which the Supreme Court has appellate jurisdiction. In those cases, the Court cannot comment unless and until an issue become the matter of an appeal. With this opinion, Marshall established the authority of the Court to pass upon the constitutionality of any legislation or executive order--either with original jurisdiction (and therefore judicial remedy) in the situations mentioned above, or appellate jurisdiction in all other matters. Given that situation, you can understand why those losing an appeal to the Federal courts will push on to the Supreme Court if possible. Marshall's decision has defined the place of the Supreme Court in our government ever since, and it has imposed upon the Justices of the Court an unwritten duty to stay above partisan struggles--which was the object of Marshall and most of his colleagues from the outset of the Judiciary Act. That not all Justices have pleased partisans of one party or another is almost not worth mentioning--it is that obvious that this will occur. That some Justices have not felt any responsibility to remain above the partisan affray should surprise no one. On balance, i would comment that the Court has an honorable record of which every citizen may justifiably be proud for its probity in excluding partisan politics from juridical review.

Whew . . . man are my fingers tired. You know, the Supremes piss people off all the time . . . so ?
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jul, 2003 05:31 pm
Au said
Quote:
There are no restrictions relative to race or ethnicity. As for gender as long as there is one of each it is perfectly acceptable. If not a trip to Canada is in order.

It was 1967 when the Supreme Court ruled restriction on interracial marriage to be unconstitutional.
It was November of 2000 when Alabama finally got around to removing its law banning interracial marriage.

America, right at the leading edge of liberty.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jul, 2003 05:35 pm
ps...here's a cute one...what with the color blindness and the horrid horrid mistake of affirmative action and all...
Quote:
Americans' attitudes toward black-white relationships have started to thaw over the years. But it's been a long, slow road. As recently as 1991, the National Opinion Research Center found that 66 percent of white Americans polled opposed a close relative marrying a black man.

More recently, a national survey by The Washington Post, the Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation, and Harvard University found 86 percent of black respondents said their families would welcome a white person. But only 55 percent of white families would respond in kind.

http://csmweb2.emcweb.com/durable/2001/07/25/p15s1.htm
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Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jul, 2003 05:36 pm
Blatham,

Just because it's Canada Day does not mean you have to be so haughty about it. Ok, so Canada is ahead of us poor rich relations. So ok, I'd rather be there than here. Ok, so Canadian men are sexier by far........ok, so you win.
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jul, 2003 05:36 pm
Why, if one is concerned about VD, does one assume everyone goes into marriage virgin? Huh? Gee, am I the only one who has, uh, you know, outside of marriage? If we really want to test for VD, we should peg it to a driver's license, or better, graduation from grade school!
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Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jul, 2003 05:40 pm
no, Tartarin, you're not. :-)
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jul, 2003 05:45 pm
Canada excels the U.S. in poor/rich relations (yes, Tart, i know that's not what you meant) because of the huge gap they found it necessary to eliminate in the latter part of the last century. The last census before World War II found that two out of three Canadians had incomes at or below the government's definition of poverty.

Having laid the bloody hand of retribution upon the insurrectionaries of 1836-37 in Upper and Lower Canada; having not once, but twice slaughtered numbers of the métis of Manitoba; and, having indulged in the casual 19th Century blood sport of the White Anglo-Saxon Protestant--killing off the indigenous peoples--Canadians have since rushed to attain a notable degree civilization, so as better to facilitate a haughty disregard of their unruly southern neighbors.
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jul, 2003 05:46 pm
Thank god, Lola! For a moment there...
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jul, 2003 05:50 pm
setanta

How dare you!? And on Canada Day! The Queen will hear about this, believe you me.
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jul, 2003 06:00 pm
Tartarin, I was - all three times Smile
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jul, 2003 06:00 pm
blatham
You can take those polls and shove them. The truth is IMO that a much higher percentage of both Blacks and Whites would not welcome their close relatives marrying interracially. I would add that if people of strong religious belief were asked the question if they would welcome the marriage out of their religion they would get the same answer.
Many people will not answer those questions honestly. Why? Because it is not politically correct.

Note: There are no laws against interracial marriage in the US.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jul, 2003 06:03 pm
Hey, Mr. Mountie, i already sent ol' Queenie a e-mail on the subject . . .

Happy Dominion Day, Boss . . .

Lover yer new squad car . . .

http://north-van.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/bug_3b55.jpg
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jul, 2003 06:07 pm
au

Thanks for the kind offer. If they were to have given a politically correct answer, then things get even worse.

The point was...there were laws, lots of them, until only very recently. The existence of a law tells us only that there is a law existing. We learn nothing about what ought to be. Bad laws should be pointed to, tipped on their edge, and then sunk deep.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jul, 2003 06:08 pm
Ol' Teddy Roosevelt once observed that the fastest way to get rid of a bad law is to enforce it . . .
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jul, 2003 06:19 pm
setanta

Though small in outward appearance, this vehicle can actually fit seven small Metis...or ten if they are deceased.
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jul, 2003 06:21 pm
Ah, yer a wicked, wicked one, boyo, so ye are . . .

heeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheehee . . .

(par le par, that pic is from the North Vancouver Mountie web site . . .)
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jul, 2003 06:24 pm
Yes...Capilano Volkswagon is a big dealership across the bridge from me.
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 1 Jul, 2003 07:08 pm
Tartarin wrote:
The state should do nothing to assist or prevent a union between two people. There are customs which those two people might like to observe, but that is not a matter for the state.

Mark your calendar, Tart... I'm inclined to agree with you here.

I'm not sure that society--and by extension, government--doesn't have a vested interest in promoting stable relationships, but I don't see why they should do so for certain pairings and not for others. (This is why I advocate for states to pass legislation creating a civil union, analogous to marriage and treated as a marriage is under law, and within which any number of consenting adults could legally join together as a legally recognized familial unit.)

I would leave "marriage" to churches, and let each church decide whom they will join in marriage and whom they will not.
0 Replies
 
 

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