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"It's Genetic." Riiiight.

 
 
Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Dec, 2006 09:14 am
Green Witch wrote:
Sorry I didn't mean to interrupt the Slappy, Bear and Bella orgy. Embarrassed


You can slap my fluffy ass too if you'd like.
0 Replies
 
Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Dec, 2006 09:15 am
Green Witch wrote:
Sorry I didn't mean to interrupt the Slappy, Bear and Bella orgy. Embarrassed


You can slap my fluffy ass too if you'd like.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Dec, 2006 09:43 am
Bella, it is personal. I live with it. I also live with all the ridicule, jokes and judgements in my daily life and on this message board. The only way to get away from it is to hide out in my room with the covers over my head. And I refuse to do that anymore.

After the insults and jokes, I gave my personal account to show that you aren't fat (or skinny) simply because of what you eat or how lazy you are. It isn't always as simple as just eating less and exercising more when you're obese. There are complications. (Just as there are for skinny types that Diane wrote about.) Others wrote similar accounts. Yes, it is personal. Tears were streaming down my face as I wrote about my personal failures with my battle against fat.

None of the people responding after the posts by Jespah, Shewolf and I even acknowledged that we had posted, they just went on with their jokes. How much value do you think that places on us and what we had to say about our personal experiences?

I then made it very personal and asked how much would be enough and what would it take for people to just accept me for me whether I was fat or not regardless of the cause. However, that is a mistake. It isn't just very personal for me. It is also a huge problem in our society. We have to answer those questions of mine and find solutions for our children too.

We have a younger population of girls who starve themselves to death because no one teaches them how much is enough and how to love themselves and each other regardless of what they look like. We have a younger population of emotional wrecks consoling themselves with food because they are taught to feel like failures for not looking like the people in magazines.

Why do I insist on making the subject of weight about whether or not I am a person of value? Because society does and I am sick and tired of it. In your words, it grosses me out.

Why do I make it personal and express my anguish and pain for everyone to see? Because, someday maybe people will understand how much damage their petty judgements cause. You want the people around you to change their lives? A big way to do so is to be an active participant in their lives, not a critic on the sidelines.

We have a pretty good list of what society changes through the last few generations contributed to today's fat generation. In today's financial climate, it isn't possible for everyone to reverse trends and go back to family farms and working to grow our own food. Society needs incentive to educate themselves to make better choices in food production and consumption. The task before all of us is how to do that. Judgemental comments and jokes don't work. They just hurt.
0 Replies
 
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Dec, 2006 09:47 am
Slappy, obesity is rising sharply in Asian countries recently.

Rising rates of obesity, diabetes a 'disaster' for Asian countries, experts say

Pretty much every time this subject comes up I refer to an article by Atul Gawande in the New Yorker that appeared a few years ago and made a huge impression on my thinking about this whole thing. The line I always quote from it is that "we are a species that has evolved to survive starvation, not to resist abundance." Jes covered a lot of it, but another aspect that has to do with Bella's complaints is how will fits into the whole thing.

I haven't been able to find the whole article back online (I wish I would have copied the whole thing back when it was available), so these quotes come from previous times I've talked about it here...

Heh, when I went looking for it, I found I'd addressed it to Bella before, too.

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1554315#1554315

This is more specifically what I'm going for, from a very similar article though not the one I had in mind:

Quote:
It is hard to contemplate the human appetite without wondering if we have any say over our lives at all. We believe in will - in the notion that we have a choice over such simple matters as whether to sit still or stand up, to have a slice of pie or not.

Yet very few people, whether heavy or slim, can voluntarily reduce their weight for long. The history of weight-loss treatment is one of near unremitting failure. We are a species that has evolved to survive starvation, not to resist abundance.

The revealing moment is the meal. There are at least two ways that humans can eat more than they ought to at a sitting. One is by eating slowly but steadily for far too long. The more common pattern, however, relies on rapid intake. Human beings are subject to what scientists call the "fat paradox".

When food enters your stomach, it triggers receptors that signal the hypothalamus to induce satiety. Nothing stimulates the reaction more quickly than fat. Yet still we eat too much fat.

It turns out that food can trigger receptors in the mouth which, obversely, get the hypothalamus to accelerate our intake - and, again, the most potent stimulant is fat. A little bit on the tongue, and the receptors push us to eat fast, before the gut signals otherwise. Apparently, how heavy one becomes is determined, in part, by how the hypothalamus and the brain stem adjudicate the conflicting signals from the mouth and the gut.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/main.jhtml?xml=/health/2002/10/21/hfat.xml

At any rate, I think that there are different enough uncontrollable, physiological things going on that it gets really dangerous to say "if that person would just..." If YOU just did that, you'd probably not be fat. That doesn't necessarily extend to the person you're referring to. It's the 7-footer saying to the 5-footer "you just gotta extend your arms a bit more and then you can dunk." It doesn't mean that no 5-footer can dunk, ever (could Spud Webb dunk? I forget), but that the effort required for the 7-footer to do it and the effort required for the 5-footer to do it are very different. And, in case it needs saying, people who can stay thin just by eating reasonably and exercising (even a lot) are the 7-footers and 6-foot-6'ers...

I do think the yo-yo dieting part is huge here, too. I think that people who in previous eras would have been seen as pretty much normal (snood's picture) now consider themselves fat and start down a destructive road. Part of the Gawande article (though widely available information) is that every time you lose weight through starvation methods, it's much much easier to gain weight.

As in, if you start out at 120 pounds when you're 20 and then don't do anything in particular (eat normally, exercise a fair amount), all else being equal you're likely to add a certain number of pounds every decade until you're 140 or 150 or whatever -- not so slim, not fat though, either.

But, if you think 120 pounds is way too fat and awful, and you diet through starvation down to 110, the process is then accelerated. You gain back those 10 pounds quickly, and because things have been re-set, 10 more. Then you try to get those off -- hard, but you can do it with extraordinary effort. Back down to 120. Then gain back the 10... etc. And within a decade, you're up to 160 already and things are still getting worse.

I saw something like that with my mom and have avoided any kind of starvation diets. I'm not as thin as I'd like to be but not following her course. I'm trying to do it through exercise alone, which helps a lot when I do it (whaps self over head).

At any rate, I wanted to get the will thing in there but overall I agree with Jes that it's not any one single factor, that there are all of these things swirling around that contribute.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Dec, 2006 09:51 am
Bella Dea wrote:
Green Witch wrote:
Sorry I didn't mean to interrupt the Slappy, Bear and Bella orgy. Embarrassed


You can slap my fluffy ass too if you'd like.


NOW you have my full attention.....
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Dec, 2006 10:06 am
Quote:
Human beings are subject to what scientists call the "fat paradox". When food enters your stomach, it triggers receptors that signal the hypothalamus to induce satiety. Nothing stimulates the reaction more quickly than fat. Yet still we eat too much fat...

Apparently, how heavy one becomes is determined, in part, by how the hypothalamus and the brain stem adjudicate the conflicting signals from the mouth and the gut.


To personalize this once again, sorry Bella, that's the problem I've been experiencing post surgery and maybe all my life. I just realized what was happening in the last month and don't listen for my body to signal fullness anymore. It doesn't happen.

In the last stages of the tumor's growth in my body, I wasn't able to eat much at all without feeling stuffed. Until I learned to eat very small portions. Even then, I frequently vomited from trying to satisfy the constant feeling of hunger. The tumor's compression of my intestines and stomach acted like a gastric bypass surgery, except nothing much bypassed, it fed the tumor.

What I've learned post surgery is that my stomach has rarely felt full without a tumor helping it to do so. I kept eating what my body craved, fruit and vegetables, but never got the same sensation of fullness to signal when to stop. Since I figured that out, I've cut my portion sizes way back to that similar to a gastric bypass diet again in an effort to at least maintain the weight loss.

Okay, done personalizing for now.
0 Replies
 
Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Dec, 2006 10:08 am
Butrflynet wrote:
Bella, it is personal. I live with it. I also live with all the ridicule, jokes and judgements in my daily life and on this message board. The only way to get away from it is to hide out in my room with the covers over my head. And I refuse to do that anymore.
.


I am sorry you feel this way however, you are not the only person in the world who struggles with ridicule, jokes and judgement. Not saying it is right however, what do you want people to do? Have you never made an unfair judgement, even if it was in the privacy of your own head? It must be nice to be so perfect.

I have never in my adult life (as a child or a teen perhaps) openly made fun of a fat person. If I find someone disgusting (and you have to admit some fat people are digusting...note I did not say all) I keep it to myself. I don't point or say "oh gross". I do not stare. I don't do anything different than I would had they been a thin person. You are guilty of what you accuse me of; lumping me into a group of people. I am not the skinny bitch calling you a fat pig.

85% of my family is overweight. Some considered obese. While I cannot say I know how it feels to be them I can say I love and cherish these people none the less. So you're accusing me of devaluing fat people is ridiculous and un called for.

My argument was not with the value of people who are fat. It is with the mindset of many of the fat people I know. And that is the I hate myself and I want to be thin but I won't do anything about it. Perhaps you are different and I truly hope so. But I know that most of the fat people I am close to wish they weren't so fat....but refuse to do anything aout it and it drives me insane. Not everyone can be a size 4 but everyone can lose some weight.

***Ok I needed to edit because a particular statement was sort of a lie. I have made fun of fat people on this forum.
And I apologize.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Dec, 2006 10:11 am
bella please tell me that even if you're a skinny bitch your ass is still fluffy....
0 Replies
 
Slappy Doo Hoo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Dec, 2006 10:12 am
Yes Soz, Spud Webb could dunk....he actually won the dunk contest one year. He's 5'7, it's amazing...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TpPgpl3hjc

One reason yo yo diets don't work in the long run, is because without weight training, every time you lose the weight, you lose both fat & muscle. As you starve yourself to drop pounds, you're slowing down your metabolism. When you go back to your normal eating habits, the weight you put back on is all fat. So if you went from 150 down to 140, then back to 150, your body fat % is higher than it was originally. Which has a negative effect on how well your body burns calories sitting still.

Fat people need resistance training too...it's not all cardio.
0 Replies
 
Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Dec, 2006 10:12 am
Yes, I have a fluffy ass.

I have plenty of cushin' for the pushin'.
0 Replies
 
Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Dec, 2006 10:19 am
Bella Dea wrote:


I am sorry you feel this way however, you are not the only person in the world who struggles with ridicule, jokes and judgement. Not saying it is right however, what do you want people to do? Have you never made an unfair judgement, even if it was in the privacy of your own head? It must be nice to be so perfect.


God I am so off today...I have no idea how I managed to delete part of my post before posting...arg........this should have read: Not saying it is right however, what do you want people to do? Quit being a**holes? That's just not going to happen. In this society we all need a tough skin, like it or not.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Dec, 2006 10:24 am
Quote:
***Ok I needed to edit because a particular statement was sort of a lie. I have made fun of fat people on this forum.
And I apologize.


Yes, you have and so have a few others. I appreciate your realization and apology. Thank you. It makes the painful discussion of these things worth it. Again, thank you.


Slappy, that last post of yours does a whole lot more good toward helping people understand how to lose weight than the first post in this thread. Keep it up! We need more.

Might just be the incentive some fat person needs to ride a cart into your gym and ask for help in losing weight and being more healthy.
0 Replies
 
Bi-Polar Bear
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Dec, 2006 10:27 am
people joke about sensitive issues all the time... it takes the power out of them.... I'm sorry if I offended you buttrfly net... no maliciousness in my intent
0 Replies
 
Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Dec, 2006 10:28 am
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
people joke about sensitive issues all the time... it takes the power out of them.... I'm sorry if I offended you buttrfly net... no maliciousness in my intent


That was never my intent either. I also joke about things that are sensitive and serious. Even my own problems.
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Dec, 2006 10:38 am
Bella, I have grown a thick skin. I'm only now starting to peel off the calloused layers. In doing so, sometimes a few raw spots get nudged. Instead of sucking it up and stuffing my feelings as usual, I now speak out rather than continue to be silent.

It's the new me. Thinner, older and louder. :wink:
0 Replies
 
shewolfnm
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Dec, 2006 09:01 am
Diane wrote:
Honey, a bitch is a bitch.


Laughing

I just had to think quickly on my feet and explain why, to my husband, I was laughing so hard at the computer..

hahahaha
0 Replies
 
shewolfnm
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Dec, 2006 09:46 am
sozobe wrote:


At any rate, I think that there are different enough uncontrollable, physiological things going on that it gets really dangerous to say "if that person would just..." If YOU just did that, you'd probably not be fat. That doesn't necessarily extend to the person you're referring to. It's the 7-footer saying to the 5-footer "you just gotta extend your arms a bit more and then you can dunk." It doesn't mean that no 5-footer can dunk, ever (could Spud Webb dunk? I forget), but that the effort required for the 7-footer to do it and the effort required for the 5-footer to do it are very different. And, in case it needs saying, people who can stay thin just by eating reasonably and exercising (even a lot) are the 7-footers and 6-foot-6'ers...


I am one of those 5 footers in a 7 foot world.


Ya know what I ate last night for dinner?

Tofu, cooked in 1/2 teaspoon of olive oil, spinach noodles, black mushrooms, with some thai meat flavoring.
Dandelion, purple cabbage, baby spinach, and romaine lettuce salad topped with croutons. No dressing.

ALl weighed and measured out, I ate 320 calories for dinner.

My snack during the day - an apple, banana and a cup of yogurt.

Lunch was a sandwich

2 thin slices of turkey, dandelion greens , a teaspoon of mustard, one tomato, and alfafa sprouts

2 glasses of orange juice in the day time, and tons of water

Breakfast was a cup of oatmeal , no sugar, 2 teaspoons of honey in it.

that is how I eat every day.
Very rarely will I break this type of eating. But i do because I enjoy junk food too, but it is minimized to once a week.

and.. uh.. Im considered fat.
Actually.. I guess I am fat.

I eat better then most vegans I know.
I eat less calories then my mil sometimes..
yet, I dont lose a drop of weight.

I clean houses for a living.
Cardio ? Every day for almost 2 hours


im fluffy..
0 Replies
 
jespah
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Dec, 2006 09:55 am
RP and I eat better than we ever have. I cook almost every night. Olive oil (not too much), skim milk, nearly no sugar or flour, no red meat, boneless skinless chicken usually, salads with almost no dressing, nuts, fruit, asparagus or broccoli most of the time, cranberries, that sort of thing -- and we are both heavier than when we used to order pizza all the time or just make pasta loaded up with full milk cheese and 2% milk. Argh.
0 Replies
 
Diane
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Dec, 2006 11:38 am
After reading this, I'm wondering if the plentitude of our society, the great abundance is the determining factor in the huge increase in obesity? My grandmothers were both quite heavy, yet they worked very hard all their lives. One taught school during the day and helped on the farm the rest of the time. Each morning, she sterilized huge milk cans for delivery later, after the milking had been done. As both women slowed down later in life, they gained a tremendous amount of weight. I'm talking about most people, not those like shewolf and Jes. I think they are among the few who really have a genetic problem and maybe a hormonal problem as well.

Also, I wonder if the availability of junk food to young children sets them up for problems later in life, even if they change to a more healthful diet? Is it possible, I wonder, for all those chemicals to change something in our bodies that prevents proper use of energy? Again, this would have a greater effect on those who are already have a genetic tendency to gain weight.

I guess my ancestors were on the verge of starvation most of their lives. Oh, and they were short, damn it, short, vertically challenged, too close to the ground. Short. Sigh.
0 Replies
 
Diane
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Dec, 2006 11:48 am
Shewolf, I'll bet you are healthier than most of your contemporaries. The fact that you had a stroke while pregnant with Bean, means your diet is extremely important. As long as you are healthy, that is the most important factor. And, having the pleasure of meeting you, I know for sure that you are gorgeous, sexy and that Ian can't take his eyes off you.

Fluffy, you're the best.

All the best from your older, let's face it, fluff-losing-out-to-flab, friend.
0 Replies
 
 

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