"It's Genetic." Riiiight.

The average real live woman is a lot plumper than we are conditioned to think in the American media. The concept of what is beautiful is largely a construct of popular culture. Witness what Renoir saw as beautiful. She certainly couldn't sell Victoria's Secret, huh?

This is an interesting topic to read.

Obesity, weight, metabolism, etc. are all part of an incredibly complex system -- as complicated as the weather and maybe more so. One thing or another is not the cause, nor will it be the cure.

Just to throw a few more things out there.
1) People are living longer than ever before, and the US is, on average, older than it used to be (e. g. there are more people living longer and fewer babies being born). This contributes to an overall feeling that there are more overweight people when that's a byproduct of the fact that there are a lot more middle-aged and young old people -- and these folks tend to be heavier.
2) Smoking is down considerably in the last 20 years. The dirty not so secret secret is that nicotine (and the loss of the sense of smell from smoking) are appetite suppressants/oral substitutes. Eat something, even something very healthy, or smoke a cigarette? Smoking doesn't pack on calories, but even apples do.
3) High fructose corn syrup -- oh yeah, preach it. It is in everything, way more than ever before. Most of our food either contains corn or is a meat from an animal fed corn. It is everywhere in our diet, and it ain't helping things.
4) Also, good old trans fats, cholesterol, etc. Plus, like Slappy, etc. said, good old fashioned calories. Portions are huge. I'm not even talking about fast food. Go to the diner near us and you are served not on a plate but on a platter. This is not a rarity.
5) People eat out more because people are busier. They work long hours, chauffeur their children from tennis to soccer to chess club to wherever and they don't have time to cook. There's all sorts of junk hidden (and in plain sight) in restaurant meals and there's very little regulation. Go to Pizzeria Uno some time and check out thei nutritional information. http://www.unos.com/kiosk/nutritionUnos.html This is typical.
6) Yo-yo dieting not only does not work, it makes things worse. A person of 140 lbs. who diets down to 120 can end up back at 160, then yo-yo down to 120 or 130 and then up to 190, all in a few years and not with a lot of slacking off when the weight goes back on. It's no great secret that it's a helluva lot easier to gain weight than it is to lose it. Many of us do the former extremely well and efficiently, even when not trying, but have a devil of a time with the latter, even when thrown into it 100%.
7) Lack of education is likely not the case for most overweight people. The message is all over the place so perhaps that strategy should be rethought. Telling someone to eat less or better, yet to not give them the means to do so (better choices in the school cafeteria; cheaper healthier food; put the nutrition of restaurant meals front and center; slow down our go-go lives so that people have a chance to cook, etc.), well, that's kinda useless, dontcha think?
8) I believe that set point has a meaning. That is, you get to a higher weight, your body kind of "gets used to" it (I need a better way to explain that) and it doesn't budge unless you really whip yourself. I have been the exact same weight for 3 years running, despite cooking at home 6 out of 7 days a week, watching the hell out of my cholesterol and walking a mile every day in commuting alone. I am not sitting at home eating bon bons and I cannot remember the last time I had fast food. As in, it was something like 10 years ago. My cholesterol, yes, has retreated. But my weight? Nope, it sits there, like a rock. So don't tell me I won't stop eating or I eat junk or I don't exercise or anything of the sort, or even that I was an overweight child, 'cause it ain't true. Do I need to do more? Absolutely, I do not deny that for one minute. But the point I am making is that a simple pronouncement of one type or another is not accurate. It's no more accurate than saying that a hurricane is the result of a 5 degree rise in temperature on one day in July. It isn't, it's due to the temperature, the humidity, wind, water, land mass and the price of tea in China for all anyone knows. Yes, we have a lot more info than we ever did, but there's a lot more out there, not yet known. I suspect we will find, among other things, that the corn syrup is killing us but also that there are several complicated genes controlling a lot of this or giving us dispositions in one direction or another. Too many calories? Of course. Not enough exercise? Hey, I'm on your page. But I think there's plenty more to be discovered in this area.

Oh and by the way, a quick pitch here. Personally, whatever you all think of the overweight, that's nice, whatever, but do, on occasion, think of what you are saying about your fellow human beings. Weight has become a fine place for people to park their prejudices. Name-calling, finger-pointing, blame-giving, yep, it's all there. So do, hold a little kindness for people, if you please, who are, it is likely, fighting an uphill battle and not just sitting around stuffing their faces every five seconds. And, as Bear has attested, get yourself bedridden for a short period of time, and you could get on this funhouse ride, too, yanno.

Jespah

Very thoughtful post.

I couldn't agree more about "set points". I have maintained the same weight for the last three years. For my height it's way too much weight and yet I'm healthy -- blood pressure excellent, cholesterol and sugar are great etc. I told my doctor that was terrible news as it gave me no incentive to change...

Losing the weight would be easy -- if I was 15 years younger (the last time I was my "goal" weight) and I could spend 2 hours a day at least 4 days a week at the gym, and followed a low fat, 1100 calories/day diet with 100% commitment. Yeaahh...

In real life, family, jobs, spouse, books, A2K, all intrude on obsessing endlessly on my weight. Besides, apparently Renoir would have thought I was a real babe.

ding ding ding!

I am what america considers fat, and my body style is that of the older paintings that snood is talking about.

I think that we are ment to be 'pudgy', and not 5 foot 10 and 110lbs .
Being rail thin is not healthy. You should not go hungry all the time to maintain a body style.

But, as jespah said,
it seems easier to poke fun at the fat people. You cant poke fun at black people.. thats against the law. It is called racisim.
Same goes for jews, midgets, asians.. etc.. All of that falls under racisim.

If you do it right, and poke fun at a smoker, you can get in trouble for harassment.. ( seen a few law suits about it )

But where are fat people mentioned?

No where. They are open season for hatred and judgement.



You know why I am pudgy/fat/overweight/obece/round/fluffy/?

Because I want to be.

I used to be a runner. I used to bike, hike, and do all that good stuff.
I was still about a size 14. Wich to the other bikers on the trail, was still fat. I would constantly get the " Good for you" statements.. when I was probally biking longer then they have been alive.

After a certain weight, your body almost will NOT lose its own weight.
I have a 500 lb aunt.
I know for a fact, because I lived with her at the time, that dropping calories and fat in her diet did not help. She still gained weight.

For 3 months she had a 1100 calorie diet. ( for her body size, she should have been on a 1500 calorie diet. We choose 200 less to help her body rid itself of fat)

Mostly vegan food, no sugars, fat below 14 grams a day and every 2 weeks, she was still gaining 1lb at a time.
Apparently this is what our bodies do when we are really fat.

I dont know why.. Im no doctor.

I used to be really heavy myself and I know from THAT experience that weight doesnt just come off.
It took me months to get rid of all that weight. And i had to have medical help.

I think people see being over weight as a choice and that makes it a free for all when it comes to insult throwing.
Pretty sad..

It isnt a choice. It doesnt feel good. And alot of times, it is out of control before we know it.
Somepeople see lables on foods that say low fat, healthy, good for you, Slim fast.. etc.. and use those products thinking they are doing thier bodies some good. When in fact, those are the very foods that are making them fat.

Unless you have a fantastic budget ( 100+ a week) that allows you to afford all organic and chemical free diet, you are eating things that make you fat. Things that break down your digestive abilities, cause cancers, and eat away at your muscle tissue.

most people dont know that.
but I am rambling before my coffee kicks in.. so Im going to stop and get a refill..

Thank you for saying that Jespah. I appreciate your doing so. I hoped I wouldn't have to.

(Long personal story here. If you don't wish to read it, just skip to the last several paragraphs.)

After a life of yo-yo dieting and weighing more than 300 pounds, three years ago I started losing 50 from changing eating habits to more healthy foods and water exercises and kept it off. In the last year, after my periods stopped, my body again ballooned to enormous proportions. I couldn't move easily, I couldn't pick things up from the floor, tie my shoes or easily walk up and down the stairs of my apartment without feeling like my knees were going to give out.

I couldn't understand what was going on. I felt like I was still losing weight and the fat and pounds melted from the rest of my body but my stomach started growing until I finally looked like I was 9 months pregnant. There was no padding between skin and bones. It was painful to lie down, painful to sit. Standing was the only relief. I couldn't do any exercise or walking even if someone paid me a million dollars for me to do so.

When you get past a certain point, it takes more than just a desire and people telling you to exercise more. You need a lot of medical support and encouragement from family and friends. You also need specially designed exercises, coaches and safety gear to prevent injury. Not criticism and "You shoulds," but "let's do this together," and "how are you coping today? Let me help you find your way through it."

I couldn't get the needed medical coverage. Insurance companies refused my applications saying my weight was the cause of their denial, the same insurance companies that had provided group coverage to me for 18 years while I was employed and gained the weight.

I didn't know about the tumor. I thought it was just my body gaining weight back again after menopause had finally set in. I gave up. I couldn't cope with the disappointment and frustration. I was in so much pain and had such difficulty just existing that I got to the point that I had to decide whether I wanted to live or die. I finally drove myself to the emergency room and was diagnosed with an ovarian cyst. After 13 days in the hospital I left weighing 70 pounds lighter. A 60 pound tumor had been removed, and I had a hysterectomy and hernia repair. I now weighed in at 224 pounds, down from a high of 344. I felt great! I had a second chance and I wanted to take advantage of it.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to keep it off. Recovering from surgery has taken a very long time. I was extremely weak when I went into the hospital. I'm now able to walk a mile and a quarter around the neighborhood park and use my exercise bike a few times a week. It has taken me three months to be able to do that. The first couple months after surgery, I ate like a pig. My body craved fruit and vegetables and had no desire at all for meats (probably because of all the vomiting I did while in the hospital when I was given meat for the first few times after surgery).

I'm still eating mostly fruits and vegetables and have added back eggs, chicken, cheese, tortillas, rice and oatmeal. I have severely cut back the portion sizes again and try to eat more frequent and smaller meals to keep my body from going back into starvation mode. In spite of that, I'm starting to gain back weight. My body has built back a cushion of fat that makes it comfortable to sit and lie down again. My boobs are back and not just flat flaps of sagging skin on my chest. That's a good thing! But it hasn't stopped there and it is so frustrating.

I am eating better than I ever did before and I am getting much more exercise then I was capable of before the surgery. I'm breathing better and my endurance is getting better. Yet, the weight is creeping back up again. I've been fat all my adult life. I can't begin to tell you how frustrated I am. I felt so proud of my much thinner body after surgery and had hope that I'd be able to continue the weight loss now that I was able to be more active. I am angry at not being able to maintain that weight loss much less lose more. I have hope that maybe that will change when the weather gets warmer and my joints don't ache so much. I'll be able to swim again and that always helps me feel better.

I just want to repeat one thing:

When you get past a certain point, it takes more than just a desire and people telling you to exercise more. You need a lot of medical support and encouragement from family and friends. You also need specially designed exercises, coaches and safety gear to prevent injury. Not criticism and "You shoulds," but "let's do this together," and "how are you coping today? Let me help."

And even then, your body sometimes turns against you. Is that genetic? In my case, could be. The maternal side of both sides of the family are known to be plump. There are also male relatives that are skinny. We had the same parenting and environment. Grew up with the same habits. The women are mostly heavy and the men are mostly thin. The family also has a history of hormonal problems. The women manifest it in menstrual problems and the men are prone to diabetes.

Please don't point fingers at us fat people and turn away in disgust. Even if we're fat from stuffing our faces, and not genetics or medical conditions, wave hello now and then. You'll help by giving us an opportunity to wave back and get that needed extra exercise. You have no idea how much a smile and an outreached hand of friendship can encourage a person to keep trying, even if it means we need a tractor-sized scooter to make us visible enough for you to see us.

My sister-in-law's outreached hand encouraged me to insist someone give me medical attention regardless of the cost and my lack of insurance. I'll never be able to tell her enough how much I love her for doing that.

Pffft! Never mind. Just read Shewolf's post. She said it better while I was typing and deciding whether or not to post such a personal story.

thanks Shewolf.

So what about in Asian countries? I'll bet very, very few women are that heavy in Japan....is that all genetics? Or do they all have eating disorders? I'll also bet most obese Asians are here in the US.

It doesn't all really matter anyway. The point of the thread was just showing how it was ironic that obese people were eating this scooter up, to help them wheel around vs. walking, which is obviously much healthier. If you're fat and you don't care, so be it...

don't you think though Slap, that it's more sporting to have a girl sit on your face that could actually kill you? Adds that element of danger that makes you come like a wildcat....

Or suffocate you? Absolutely.

Damn you BP Bear

Now I'll be thinking about that poor girl's stub for an arm all day.......!

Jespah, shewolf and butrflynet have all posted thoughtful, factual responses that cover most of the complexities of genetics, plain old overeating and life-style, but butrflynet said the one thing that is so important to keep in mind:



The meanness with which we treat others for whatever reason shows how small, petty and mean-spirited so many of us are. How sad. Those who think being fat is disgusting are sure to miss out on some of the most remarkable people ever.

I'm lucky, even though I go up and down, I found a skinny old cowboy who really, truly loves me. I also think he likes that I can keep him warm (unless I'm dying of the heat!). The only problem is that Dys needs badly to gain weight, while I am always fighting my sweets addiction.

Bear, if the beautiful Squinney ever gets fat, I hope she will sit on your face. You funny old bear, you know you'll love it.

Nothing wrong with fat people. I try not to be prejudiced against anyone, fat people included. The only fat people I have a problem with are the fat people who complain they are fat while eating a Big Mac and a large fries.

I think that there are certain circumstances when there is a medical reason for someone being obese. I wouldn't classify most of America as the medically-weight-challenged but there are I'd bet some.

A lot of the fat people I know, are fat because they are lazy, point blank. I'll say it. I don't care. Most of the fat people I know are fat because they are lazy. They don't want to take the time to cook right. They don't want to walk the extra 50 feet to the store door. They don't want to exercise.

Now, that's not to say I too am not lazy sometimes. I am. But because we are all built differently, I am able (through the grace of god and genetics) to eat a little less healthy than many pople and not balloon out to 300+ pounds. Genetics plays a part in it all THAT way...metabolism and how we burn what we eat. Some of us get dealt a sweet hand and don't have to work much for it. Others got stuck with a slow body that takes some maintenance. And many of those who get stuck with the slow body are too lazy to work at it.

I hope no one takes personal offense to what I just said. I don't want to lump all overweight people into this "lazy" catagory. It's just what I see in my life and what I've noticed. Maybe I just hang around some lazy ass people.

I'd be interested to know about the lifestyle of some of the overweight people here on A2K. Be interested to know what kind of activity you do every day and if it does in fact play a role in your weight. Then maybe we could see if someone who eats healthy and does at least medium exercise is still overweight. And by overweight, I mean really overweight, not pudgy or fluffy. And I don't mean this in a mean or nasty way. I would seriously be interested to hear of people who are overweight with a healthy lifestyle.

It could change the way we look at overweight people. Genetics may then be a realistic reason.

nothing could be better.....

you're welcome....

Why do I have to justify the reasons for my weight problem to anyone before they will even look at me and say "hello" without a snicker or consider me next time they want to make caustic jokes about fat people while near me?

I've already lost 100 pounds, but I'm still fat. Does that let me into your club yet? Do I now qualify as someone to love or at least like? When will it be enough so you can look past the fat and see me and not a lazy fat person?

Does being fat and lazy mean I'm not allowed to socialize even if it means I purchase a cart that makes me more mobile and gives me incentive to leave the four walls of my home?

Why does the question of genetics determine how fat people are treated in public? How do you know which fat person has a medical problem, which has poor genes and which just eats a lot of Big Macs? Are there signs we're supposed to wear that say "It's okay to be my friend. I was born this way!" or "I'm not lazy, I'm sick." ?

What club? Who's saying nobody should like fat people?

I'm not a fatsict. I have fat friends.

How could we tell?

Why is it though, that we can feel disgust at a fat person eating a burger and fries while not feeling the same amount if any, of disgust at a drunk continuing to drink? Or, why not the same disgust at a greedy social climber, doing everything in his or her power to stab anyone in the back who might get in the way? One reason, among many in my opinion, is that fat is all too obvious. The drunk might be sly and sneaky about his addiction; the social climber might appear to have made it on his or her own, with all the glittering accoutrements to make it seem awe-inspiring. Those nasty, immoral, sneaky habits often can be obscured, while fat people have to live with it 24/7. Any time they treat themselves to a treat, they are ridiculed. I'm absolutely not saying that it is alright or that I condone it--god knows I've done it enough myself to know that it really can be disgusting even to the person doing the eating--often moreso than to others. It's just that they are right out there, open to every opportunity for ridicule.

Yes, for me, eating too much is the major reason I gain weight. Getting older is a major reason I have a much more difficult time getting rid of it. Yes, I am stupid for not eating more healthfully. So what? Do I have a sign on my forhead saying, kick me, I'm fat? No, I know it isn't there.

So, maybe all of us should grow up. Admit that many of us just don't take good care of ourselves while others do everything in their power and still find it impossible to lose weight. Many of us need to pick on someone to make ourselves feel superior. That is basically what bigotry is all about. Damn, we need to get over ourselves and stop being so, so so, well, damnit, stupidly, unthinkingly human.

It is possible to be kind, really. Will any of you try if I promise to try to not be so digusting and eat more broccoli?

I would rather share a deep fried snickers bar with you

but

broccoli is ok too..