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Americans United for Separation of Church and State

 
 
Phoenix32890
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2006 10:30 am
LoneStarMadam- Jesus Christ??? I don't know whether you have noticed, but Christianity is NOT the only religion on this earth. How would you feel if your kids were obliged to read from the Koran in a public school?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2006 10:34 am
Quote:

A church is for everyone.


... who chooses it, of course.

It isn't for forcing on anyone, ever.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2006 11:22 am
Phoenix32890 wrote:
LoneStarMadam- Jesus Christ??? I don't know whether you have noticed, but Christianity is NOT the only religion on this earth. How would you feel if your kids were obliged to read from the Koran in a public school?

I would not have a problem with any religious book being taught from or read in school. I mention JC because He is the one I pray to.
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2006 11:24 am
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Quote:

A church is for everyone.


... who chooses it, of course.

It isn't for forcing on anyone, ever.

Cycloptichorn

Did I say that people should be forced to attend church? No, I don't believe I did.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2006 11:27 am
LoneStarMadam wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Quote:

A church is for everyone.


... who chooses it, of course.

It isn't for forcing on anyone, ever.

Cycloptichorn

Did I say that people should be forced to attend church? No, I don't believe I did.


The use of religious teachings and documents in school is roughly akin to forcing kids to attend church; thus the original article in the thread.

Religion has no place in schools whatsoever. None. The place for religion is a church/equivalent.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
kickycan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2006 11:35 am
I had never heard of this group before now. Thanks, Phoenix, for posting about them. They have the right idea.
0 Replies
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2006 11:40 am
LoneStarMadam wrote:
talk72000 wrote:
It is in the church's best interest to keep the sacred separate from the secular.

A church is for everyone. Myabe Barry Lynns church doesn't believe that everyone should be welcomed, but that is not the teaching of Jesus Christ.
The first amendment guarantees us "freedom OF religion", not freedom FROM religion.


Wrong the first ammendment gaurentees both freedom of and from religion. Think about it!
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2006 12:03 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
LoneStarMadam wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Quote:

A church is for everyone.


... who chooses it, of course.

It isn't for forcing on anyone, ever.

Cycloptichorn

Did I say that people should be forced to attend church? No, I don't believe I did.


The use of religious teachings and documents in school is roughly akin to forcing kids to attend church; thus the original article in the thread.

Religion has no place in schools whatsoever. None. The place for religion is a church/equivalent.

Cycloptichorn


What is the problem with teaching or reading religious literature in schools? Schools celebrate black history month, Christmas, etc, etc.. Is there any danger of kids becoming black because black history is taught? Or becoming Christian because Christmas is a federal holiday & recognized in schools? Then too, you do realize what the first Thanksgiving was about, right?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2006 12:56 pm
Quote:

What is the problem with teaching or reading religious literature in schools?


Because the school has no place teaching anything having to do with religion at all. It implies endorsement and that is completely unAmerican.

The founding fathers would have a fit if they saw people trying to mix gov't and religion the way some on the Right would like.

Anyone who wants to send their child to a school that does endorse a specific religion is more than welcome to do so, and in fact many parents do exactly that. And I don't have a problem with it; they just can't use the public money to pay for it.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2006 12:57 pm
au1929 wrote:
LoneStarMadam wrote:
talk72000 wrote:
It is in the church's best interest to keep the sacred separate from the secular.

A church is for everyone. Myabe Barry Lynns church doesn't believe that everyone should be welcomed, but that is not the teaching of Jesus Christ.
The first amendment guarantees us "freedom OF religion", not freedom FROM religion.


Wrong the first ammendment gaurentees both freedom of and from religion. Think about it!

In that sense, you're right.
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2006 01:00 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Quote:

What is the problem with teaching or reading religious literature in schools?


Because the school has no place teaching anything having to do with religion at all. It implies endorsement and that is completely unAmerican.

The founding fathers would have a fit if they saw people trying to mix gov't and religion the way some on the Right would like.

Anyone who wants to send their child to a school that does endorse a specific religion is more than welcome to do so, and in fact many parents do exactly that. And I don't have a problem with it; they just can't use the public money to pay for it.

Cycloptichorn


Again, what is the problem with teaching religion ir reading it in school?
You apparently haven't read much about our FFs & their stance on religion or God.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2006 01:05 pm
LoneStarMadam wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Quote:

What is the problem with teaching or reading religious literature in schools?


Because the school has no place teaching anything having to do with religion at all. It implies endorsement and that is completely unAmerican.

The founding fathers would have a fit if they saw people trying to mix gov't and religion the way some on the Right would like.

Anyone who wants to send their child to a school that does endorse a specific religion is more than welcome to do so, and in fact many parents do exactly that. And I don't have a problem with it; they just can't use the public money to pay for it.

Cycloptichorn


Again, what is the problem with teaching religion ir reading it in school?
You apparently haven't read much about our FFs & their stance on religion or God.


I guarantee that I've read more about the Founding Fathers than you ever have or will, Madam. You need to realize that the modern myth that they were highly fundamentalist bears no relation to reality...

The problem with teaching religion in school is that modern schools act as a function of government; and government cannot be mixed with religion in a secular society, such as the one we live in. It is specifically prohibited from doing so, in fact.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2006 01:16 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
LoneStarMadam wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Quote:

What is the problem with teaching or reading religious literature in schools?


Because the school has no place teaching anything having to do with religion at all. It implies endorsement and that is completely unAmerican.

The founding fathers would have a fit if they saw people trying to mix gov't and religion the way some on the Right would like.

Anyone who wants to send their child to a school that does endorse a specific religion is more than welcome to do so, and in fact many parents do exactly that. And I don't have a problem with it; they just can't use the public money to pay for it.

Cycloptichorn


Again, what is the problem with teaching religion ir reading it in school?
You apparently haven't read much about our FFs & their stance on religion or God.


I guarantee that I've read more about the Founding Fathers than you ever have or will, Madam. You need to realize that the modern myth that they were highly fundamentalist bears no relation to reality...

The problem with teaching religion in school is that modern schools act as a function of government; and government cannot be mixed with religion in a secular society, such as the one we live in. It is specifically prohibited from doing so, in fact.

Cycloptichorn

If you've read more about the FFs than I ever have, then maybe you've forgotten some of what you read?
Gov't cannot endorse a religion, that doesn't mean that there can't be any religion in schools. Some more food for thought, while federal gov't could not establish nor endorse a religion, states could & did. The Puritans, for instance, was the official state religion of Mass Our USSC has usurped more power than was intended & they legislate more than they intrepret. Things have been added willy nilly to the Constitution that there is no mention of in that document.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2006 01:23 pm
Quote:
Gov't cannot endorse a religion, that doesn't mean that there can't be any religion in schools.


You're right, it doesn't mean that there can't be any religion in schools.

It means that the gov't can't teach or promote religion in schools using gov't monies. Teaching religion is endorsing religion.

This is not a complicated idea to understand

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2006 01:27 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Quote:
Gov't cannot endorse a religion, that doesn't mean that there can't be any religion in schools.


You're right, it doesn't mean that there can't be any religion in schools.

It means that the gov't can't teach or promote religion in schools using gov't monies. Teaching religion is endorsing religion.

This is not a complicated idea to understand

Cycloptichorn

Ah, so the Christian, Muslim, Bhuddist, etc schools that enjoy the largess of FEDERAL tax $$ by way of the FEDERAL gov't voucher system can no longer teach religion?
Not complicated?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2006 01:30 pm
LoneStarMadam wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Quote:
Gov't cannot endorse a religion, that doesn't mean that there can't be any religion in schools.


You're right, it doesn't mean that there can't be any religion in schools.

It means that the gov't can't teach or promote religion in schools using gov't monies. Teaching religion is endorsing religion.

This is not a complicated idea to understand

Cycloptichorn

Ah, so the Christian, Muslim, Bhuddist, etc schools that enjoy the largess of FEDERAL tax $$ by way of the FEDERAL gov't voucher system can no longer teach religion?
Not complicated?


There is a Federal voucher system?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2006 01:32 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
LoneStarMadam wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Quote:
Gov't cannot endorse a religion, that doesn't mean that there can't be any religion in schools.


You're right, it doesn't mean that there can't be any religion in schools.

It means that the gov't can't teach or promote religion in schools using gov't monies. Teaching religion is endorsing religion.

This is not a complicated idea to understand

Cycloptichorn

Ah, so the Christian, Muslim, Bhuddist, etc schools that enjoy the largess of FEDERAL tax $$ by way of the FEDERAL gov't voucher system can no longer teach religion?
Not complicated?


There is a Federal voucher system?

Cycloptichorn


That was new to me too.......
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2006 01:36 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
LoneStarMadam wrote:
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Quote:
Gov't cannot endorse a religion, that doesn't mean that there can't be any religion in schools.


You're right, it doesn't mean that there can't be any religion in schools.

It means that the gov't can't teach or promote religion in schools using gov't monies. Teaching religion is endorsing religion.

This is not a complicated idea to understand

Cycloptichorn

Ah, so the Christian, Muslim, Bhuddist, etc schools that enjoy the largess of FEDERAL tax $$ by way of the FEDERAL gov't voucher system can no longer teach religion?
Not complicated?


There is a Federal voucher system?

Cycloptichorn


You don't know about that program? Shocked
Then maybe you should research it.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2006 01:38 pm
Yeah, I just tried. It doesn't exist.

Provide me a link, please

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
LoneStarMadam
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Nov, 2006 01:47 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Yeah, I just tried. It doesn't exist.

Provide me a link, please

Cycloptichorn


You don't want it to exist, therefore....
You didn't try too hard to find it, the school voucher case has even been heard in the USSC.
http://www.oft.org/topics/vouchers/index.htm
0 Replies
 
 

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