0
   

NORTH KOREA CONDUCTS NUCLEAR TEST

 
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Oct, 2006 08:17 am
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Oct, 2006 08:51 am
I shan't begrudge you the rare opportunity to tout when you think your hero got one right, Thomas. After all, I'm sure it's a rare occasion.

But the idiocy of Krugman shines through in his focus on the actions of the Bush Administration as the impetus of North Korea's nuclear ambitions. Krugman implies that the only reason North Korea has nuclear weapons to test today is because of the failures of the Bush Administration. In doing so, he fails to account for the failed policies of the Clinton Administration that paved the way for DPRK to acquire the nuclear weapons in the first place. Does he seriously think North Korea's quest for a nuclear weapons program began when Bush pronounced North Korea a member of the Axis of Evil?

No, he does not, for he acknowledges that they probably had a couple prior to the start of the Iraq War. He blames the Bush administration for not taking military action when it became clear DPRK had violated the 1994 agreement and was enriching uranium, and it is here that I agree with Krugman. But he falls short in stating what the Bush Administration should have done -- typical of a leftist pundit ... full of complaints, but no solutions. He seems to say economic sanctions, at least the ones taken then, are nothing more than "a rap on the knuckes," but does not have the intestinal fortitude (the nads, if you will) to state what Bush's policy should have been.

Just Krugman tilting at windmills again. It's what he's best at.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Oct, 2006 09:02 am
Archives can be fun.

Quote:
U.S. Aid Helps N. Korea Build Nukes, Congress Told
By Lawrence Morahan
CNS Staff Writer
17 April, 2000

(CNSNews.com) - North Korea's nuclear production capacity will increase from a dozen nuclear bombs a year to 65 a year by 2010, thanks in large part to American taxpayer money, two renowned U.S. nuclear scientists told congressional leaders last week.

North Korea observers have long suspected the communist dictatorship is using Western humanitarian aid to starving North Koreans to feed Kim Jong Il's million-man army.

But an aid policy initiated by the Clinton administration in the mid-1990s to finance two light water nuclear reactors in North Korea puts the isolated communist country on the fast track in the manufacture of nuclear weapons, William R. Graham and Victor Gilinsky told members of the House Policy Committee.

North Korea's missile proliferation has accelerated dramatically since the Clinton-Gore administration began giving aid to the regime in 1994.

"There were no known No-dong missile sales abroad until after the United States signed the so-called Agreed Framework with North Korea," House Speaker Dennis Hastert's North Korea advisory group reported.

But since U.S. aid began, the communist state has sold crucial technology to Iran for the Shahab missile that now threatens U.S. forces and their allies in the Middle East, and for a Pakistani missile in 1998 that disrupted the fragile stability of South Asia.

In 1994 the Clinton administration signed an agreement with North Korea that was designed to halt North Korea's nuclear weapons development program. North Korea sought light water reactors to provide for their energy needs and the U.S. agreed to provide them in exchange for North Korea giving up its nuclear program.

Western aid also earned donor countries the right to inspect the North Korean nuclear facilities.

The U.S. believed the plutonium produced would have to be refined before it could be used for weapons grade plutonium, said Chuck Downs, a leading North Korea expert and author of "Over the Line: North Korea's Negotiating Strategy," in an interview with CNSNews.com. But even though the plutonium wasn't the same yield as that used by the U.S. and some NATO countries, it could still be used to make nuclear weapons, he said.

For the past six years the United States has been trying to put in place two 1,000-megawatt light water reactors in North Korea.

The Clinton administration gambled that construction would take so long that North Korea would collapse politically and economically before the reactors were put in place, Downs said.

"As things have turned out, North Korea has received $380 million in aid from various countries last year, $210 million of it from the U.S., and that is enough to satisfy the needs of their regime. So the regime is roaring drunk and not at all collapsing," Downs said.

When they are in place in 2010, the light water reactors will give the North Koreans 490 kilograms of plutonium every year, allowing them to build 60 to 100 nuclear weapons a year.

"The kinds of facilities that existed in 1994 could only have produced two bombs a year and the kind they conceived [before U.S. aid] a dozen a year," Downs said.

Nuclear critics say it is impossible to decouple the risks from the benefits of nuclear power, or the ability of countries that have nuclear power to manufacture nuclear weapons.

Ted Taylor, a nuclear scientist and critic of U.S. nuclear policy, told CNSNews.com that all of the world's 450-odd nuclear power plants automatically make plutonium as a side product. "So there's a huge amount of plutonium, which is the stuff from which nuclear weapons are made or can be made, spreading worldwide without adequate safeguards against criminals, terrorists, or governments that are disobeying rules."

Taylor, an architect for decades of the U.S. nuclear program, including the program at Los Alamos, was a member of a presidential commission to investigate the nuclear accident at Three Mile Island in 1979. "Nuclear energy is a major activity for destructive forces," he said.

North Korea Seeks Relations with South Korea

Doug Bandow, a senior fellow at the Cato Institute who has written extensively on North Korea, told CNSNews.com that North Korea seemed to be headed in a more moderate direction politically and has indicated this by agreeing to meet with South Korea for the first time in 50 years.

"I think everyone accepts the fact that the North Korean nuclear program is in deep freeze at the moment, but the question is if we didn't essentially buy them off, what would be the alternative," Bandow said. "They haven't offered any ... There's reason to be critical but if you're going to be critical you have to come up with an alternative and I haven't seen one yet."

But Downs insisted the U.S. should stand firm when dealing with North Korea, especially in view of its known policies of nuclear proliferation to the United States' enemies around the world.

"If you're in the mode of giving gifts, then you give them gifts that don't kill you. You don't hand children the gun. We could have gone in and said we'll give them $20 billion worth of hydroelectric dams and solar energy, wind power, whatever they wanted. We could have thrown in a $5 billion distribution system so that this energy could actually be used. Right now they have two light water reactors that will produce 490 kilograms of plutonium but no distribution system, and they have no idea how they're going to distribute that electricity - if indeed that was their intention at all."


Quote:

Everybody Didn't Do It: Clinton Administration is in a Class by Itself on Damaging Security Practices


(Washington, D.C.): The Clinton Administration's damage-limitation strategy in response to revelations about its failure to safeguard U.S. nuclear secrets from Chinese espionage -- namely, that other presidencies have had such problems, too -- has begun to unravel as scrutiny of the relevant facts has intensified. In particular, a succession of former officials and independent analysts have now established that the current administration departed from past practice significantly, notably by turning a blind eye to Chinese efforts to penetrate the U.S. government and economy and by punishing government employees who have sought to protect American interests.1

The latter aspect was powerfully underscored in an op.ed. article which appeared in yesterday's edition of the Wall Street Journal (see the attached). It was authored by a former Reagan Administration official, Michael Ledeen, who is currently a Resident Scholar at the American Enterprise Institute. Mr. Ledeen describes how President Reagan's administration expected -- and elicited -- enormous help in preventing the flow of high-technology to Communist regimes "from professional civil servants, particularly in the military." He added that: "It would have been unthinkable for those experts to have been silenced or coerced into lying about matters that directly affected national security. Yet, this has happened repeatedly during the Clinton years, as some recently uncovered documents show." (Emphasis added.)

Enter Jonathan Fox

As Mr. Ledeen notes, a case in point is that of Jonathan Fox, an attorney specializing in arms control on the staff of what was, until recently, called the Defense Special Weapons Agency. 2 Mr. Fox ran afoul of the Clinton party line when he wrote a memorandum opposing the President's certification that China was no longer proliferating nuclear weapons technology. According to Mr. Ledeen, "Mr. Fox's memo argued against the agreement on these grounds:

"It 'presents real and substantial risk to the common defense and security of both the United States and allied countries.'


"It 'can result in a significant increase of the risk of nuclear weapons technology proliferation.'


"'The environment surrounding these exchange measures cannot guarantee timely warning of willful diversion of otherwise confidential information to non-nuclear states for nuclear weapons development.'


"There was no guarantee that the nuclear information would be limited to non-military applications in China itself."

Such a presidential certification that effectively found that none of these to be the case was required by law before the United States could embark upon commercial nuclear cooperation with the PRC. 3 Political appointees in Mr. Fox's chain of command gave him the option of changing his memo or losing his job. In the end, the memo was rewritten to suit the Administration's needs for an undeserved Pentagon seal-of-approval. It was not signed in that form by Jonathan Fox, however.

As Mr. Ledeen points out, this is not an isolated case:


"Mr. Fox is not the only weapons expert in the government to have been instructed to lie or remain silent about the true consequences of sending military technology to China. Notra Trulock and his colleagues were told by their superiors at the Department of Energy that they should stop annoying people with accounts of Chinese espionage at Los Alamos. Similarly, professionals in the Pentagon such as Michael Maloof and Peter Leitner 4 were told to keep quiet about the approval of high-tech licenses that would strengthen Chinese military power. Both of them spoke out; others remain silent.


"But even when the professionals stick by their principles, their superiors have chosen to substitute facts with politically expedient disinformation. On at least two occasions, military experts who argued against high-tech exports to China later discovered that their recommendations had been altered in the Pentagon's computerized data base."

The Actual Record
"Disinformation" also describes efforts by Clinton Administration officials -- notably, Secretary of Energy Bill Richardson -- to suggest that the real problems with security took place on the watches of previous Presidents. In fact, as Investor's Business Daily reported on 9 June 1999:

"The declassified version of the House [Cox Committee] report identifies 11 cases of Chinese espionage since the late 1970s. Eight took place during President Clinton's years in office. Two of the three prior cases were first learned in 1995 and 1997. In other words, the vast majority of the leaks over the past 20 years have sprung on Clinton's watch and nearly all the old leaks have shown up then. That's not all.

"The House report doesn't disclose the full extent of Chinese espionage in the Clinton years. Citing 'national security' reasons, the White House censured nearly 375 pages, including several recent cases. At least 24 times, the declassified version of the report states: 'The Clinton administration has determined further information cannot be made public.' Left out are details about Chinese espionage that took place in the 'mid-1990s' or 'late 1990s.'

"'Some of the most significant thefts occurred in the last four years,'said Rep. Chris Cox, R-Calif., who headed the House panel."

The Bottom Line

Conscientious government officials like Messrs. Fox, Maloof and Leitner, who were properly lauded by Mr. Ledeen and others he did not mention by name (notably, Ed McCallum, a retired lieutenant colonel in Army special operations who, in his capacity as DOE's Director of Safeguards and Security, has been warning for years about the Clinton Administration's malign neglect of basic security procedures at the Department of Energy 5 ) have a critical role to play in a real, and urgently needed, national damage-limitation strategy. Congress must ensure that they are given political protection against further retribution by the Clinton Administration.

More important still, these patriots must be given a platform from which they can help to identify the full extent of the Clinton team's malfeasance with respect to physical, information and personnel security matters and to direct corrective actions. An ideal approach to providing such a vehicle would be the creation of a Select Committee of the Senate imbued with the same authority and access to information and resources as the counterpart Cox Committee had in the House to whose staff such individuals might be temporarily detailed. At a minimum, they should be given ample opportunities to testify before this or other relevant committees of the Congress.







1 See the Center's Decision Briefs entitled China's Nuclear Theft, Strategic Build-up Underscore Folly of Clinton Denuclearization, C.T.B. (No. 99-D 31, 8 March 1999) and Campaigns Clinton Legacy Watch # 41: Security Meltdown at D.O.E. ([url=No. 99-D 48]No. 99-D 48, 26 April 1999[/url]).

2 See Broadening the Lens: Peter Leitner's Revelations on '60 Minutes,' Capitol Hill Indict Clinton Technology Insecurity (No. 98-D 101, 6 June 1998).

3 See the Casey Institute Perspective entitled The Big Lie: Long-term U.S. Interests Will Not Be Served By Presidential Misrepresentation Of Chinese Proliferation Acts (No. 97-C 105, 16 October 1997).

4 See Profile In Courage: Peter Leitner Blows The Whistle On Clinton's Dangerous Export Decontrol Policies (No. 97-P 82, 19 June 1997), Profile in Courage: Mike Maloof Speaks Truth to Power about Clinton's Dangerous Tech Transfers to China (No. 98-D 192, 30 November 1998) and S.O.S. -- Save Our Submarines: Latest Revelation About Chinese Espionage Underscores Need to Retain Full Trident Force (No. 99-D 58, 13 May 1999).

5 See Saving Lieutenant Colonel McCallum (No. 99-D 64, 1 June 1999).


blueflame, you've still not answered the question: why might one expect discussions with DPRK now would be any more fruitful than ever have they been in the past?
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Oct, 2006 09:20 am
timberland, I've answered your question in my own way. Until America changes direction no talks will be fruitful We're the one with the big club. We need to put down that club and then we'll be in a better position to try the North Koreans. As I've said Clinton's reunification program was far saner than Bushie's very insane policy of isolation and threats. Since we're nobody to trust we're gonna be unable to trust anyone else. We the ones up to no good. Of course the world will build deterrents to America's threats and pre-emptive wars. The Bushie Doctrine encourages that. The world aint about to not take Bushie's threats seriously.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Oct, 2006 09:44 am
blueflame1 wrote:
timberland, I've answered your question in my own way.

You've not answered the question as presented. I must assume either thatyou do not wish to do so or that you are unable to do so - whichever, your practice in such regard is in its own way answer enough.

Quote:
Until America changes direction no talks will be fruitful

Incorrect - any number of approaches have been attempted, by various parties and powers, Western and Asian, across nearly 6 decades. What is unchanged is the behavior of the Kim regime. The solution is clear - the Kim regime has to go if progress is to be made.

Quote:
We're the one with the big club. We need to put down that club and then we'll be in a better position to try the North Koreans.

Incorrect - no "Big Club" has been brabndished by the US toward DPRK in this matter; quite the opposite, in fact - repeatedly, over decades, the US has stated explicitly it has no aggressive intent toward DPRK.

Quote:
As I've said Clinton's reunification program was far saner than Bushie's very insane policy of isolation and threats.

Nonsense - as well demonstrated, Clinton's policies at best offered the Kim regime a smokescreen behind which to persist in unacceptable behavior. Isolation is called for - by the Kim's own actions, and threats are not being offered, warnings are being issued and promises are being made.

Quote:
Since we're nobody to trust we're gonna be unable to trust anyone else. We the ones up to no good. Of course the world will build deterrents to America's threats and pre-emptive wars. The Bushie Doctrine encourages that. The world aint about to not take Bushie's threats seriously.

The US gave up a great deal of legitimacy when it abandoned Southeast Asia, and gave up yet more over the ensuing decades as it persistently failed to demonstrate resolve and commitment in the face of threat. The US indeed may be blamed for much of the situation of the world today; by failing, in the name of political correctness and dialogue, adequately and prudently to address issues, those who oppose freedom, liberty, civilization, and the democratic establishment and rule of law have been both emboldened and enabled. It is long past time we cease abdicating responsiblity and take up our obligations. What must be demonstrated is that The US means what it says and that it will do as it promises.
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Oct, 2006 09:57 am
timberlandko, the problem is you dont wanna admit the evil American foreign policy has done and continues to do. Of course they dont hate us for our freedoms. Take that beam out of America's eye and change course. Stay the course is insane but the blowback it brings has always greatly enriched America's warmongers. That is the bottom line. Your blame the victims approach is a trip to nowhere but death and destruction.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Oct, 2006 10:35 am
Straw man, blueflame; no "blame the victims" is operative, and "i]The Problem[/i]" is that you among others fail to recognize or at least fail to acknowledge that The US now is responding prudently to real external threat - external threat for which the US itself is at least partially to blame, in that The US has enabled and emboldened that threat through prior imprudent lack of commitment and resolve.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Oct, 2006 10:45 am
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Oct, 2006 10:58 am
Ticomaya wrote:
But the idiocy of Krugman shines through in his focus on the actions of the Bush Administration as the impetus of North Korea's nuclear ambitions.

Since Bush was the sitting president, able to change the US strategy, and Clonton was not it made sense for Krugman to criticize Bush but not Clinton. If you read Krugman's Slate articles in the 90s, you would notice that he was perfectly happy to criticize Clinton policies too -- because in the 90s, Clinton was the sitting president. Paul Krugman is not a partisan shill, no matter how hard you try to portray him as one.

timberlandko wrote:
Archives can be fun.

They can, and your article in particular was interesting. I never said Clinton was blameless. You see, I'm not a partisan shill either -- just as Paul Krugman isn't.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Oct, 2006 11:15 am
Thomas wrote:
timberlandko wrote:
Archives can be fun.

They can, and your article in particular was interesting. I never said Clinton was blameless. You see, I'm not a partisan shill either -- just as Paul Krugman isn't.

I know you're not, Thomas - for an elitist eurolefty, anyhow ( :wink: ). My point is the "blame" lies squarely with and nowhere else than DPRK, and that partisan mudslinging does nothing but obscure that fact.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Oct, 2006 11:24 am
timberlandko wrote:
I know you're not, Thomas - for an elitist eurolefty, anyhow ( :wink: ).


He, he! Thomas certainly might be an elist - but never a lefty!
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Oct, 2006 11:29 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
timberlandko wrote:
I know you're not, Thomas - for an elitist eurolefty, anyhow ( :wink: ).


He, he! Thomas certainly might be an elist - but never a lefty!

Depends on perspective, Walter - depends on perspective Laughing
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Oct, 2006 11:33 am
Solving the Korean Stalemate, One Step at a Time
By Jimmy Carter
The New York Times

Wednesday 11 October 2006

Atlanta - In 1994 the North Koreans expelled inspectors of the International Atomic Energy Agency and were threatening to process spent nuclear fuel into plutonium, giving them the ability to produce nuclear weapons.

With the risk of war on the Korean Peninsula, there was a consensus that the forces of South Korea and the United States could overwhelmingly defeat North Korea. But it was also known that North Korea could quickly launch more than 20,000 shells and missiles into nearby Seoul. The American commander in South Korea, Gen. Gary Luck, estimated that total casualties would far exceed those of the Korean War.

Responding to an invitation from President Kim Il-sung of North Korea, and with the approval of President Bill Clinton, I went to Pyongyang and negotiated an agreement under which North Korea would cease its nuclear program at Yongbyon and permit inspectors from the atomic agency to return to the site to assure that the spent fuel was not reprocessed. It was also agreed that direct talks would be held between the two Koreas.

The spent fuel (estimated to be adequate for a half-dozen bombs) continued to be monitored, and extensive bilateral discussions were held. The United States assured the North Koreans that there would be no military threat to them, that it would supply fuel oil to replace the lost nuclear power and that it would help build two modern atomic power plants, with their fuel rods and operation to be monitored by international inspectors. The summit talks resulted in South Korean President Kim Dae-jung earning the 2000 Nobel Peace Prize for his successful efforts to ease tensions on the peninsula.

But beginning in 2002, the United States branded North Korea as part of an axis of evil, threatened military action, ended the shipments of fuel oil and the construction of nuclear power plants and refused to consider further bilateral talks. In their discussions with me at this time, North Korean spokesmen seemed convinced that the American positions posed a serious danger to their country and to its political regime.

Responding in its ill-advised but predictable way, Pyongyang withdrew from the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty, expelled atomic energy agency inspectors, resumed processing fuel rods and began developing nuclear explosive devices.

Six-nation talks finally concluded in an agreement last September that called for North Korea to abandon all nuclear weapons and existing nuclear programs and for the United States and North Korea to respect each other's sovereignty, exist peacefully together and take steps to normalize relations. Each side subsequently claimed that the other had violated the agreement. The United States imposed severe financial sanctions and Pyongyang adopted the deeply troubling nuclear option.

The current military situation is similar but worse than it was a decade ago: we can still destroy North Korea's army, but if we do it is likely to result in many more than a million South Korean and American casualties.

If and when it is confirmed that the recent explosion in North Korea was nuclear, the international community will once again be faced with difficult choices.

One option, the most likely one, is to try to force Pyongyang's leaders to abandon their nuclear program with military threats and a further tightening of the embargoes, increasing the suffering of its already starving people. Two important facts must be faced: Kim Jong-il and his military leaders have proven themselves almost impervious to outside pressure, and both China and South Korea have shown that they are reluctant to destabilize the regime. This approach is also more likely to stimulate further nuclear weapons activity.

The other option is to make an effort to put into effect the September denuclearization agreement, which the North Koreans still maintain is feasible. The simple framework for a step-by-step agreement exists, with the United States giving a firm and direct statement of no hostile intent, and moving toward normal relations if North Korea forgoes any further nuclear weapons program and remains at peace with its neighbors. Each element would have to be confirmed by mutual actions combined with unimpeded international inspections.

Although a small nuclear test is a far cry from even a crude deliverable bomb, this second option has become even more difficult now, but it is unlikely that the North Koreans will back down unless the United States meets this basic demand. Washington's pledge of no direct talks could be finessed through secret discussions with a trusted emissary like former Secretary of State Jim Baker, who earlier this week said, "It's not appeasement to talk to your enemies."

What must be avoided is to leave a beleaguered nuclear nation convinced that it is permanently excluded from the international community, its existence threatened, its people suffering horrible deprivation and its hard-liners in total control of military and political policy.
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Oct, 2006 11:48 am
Message to Jimmy "the Dunce" Carter"....

Shut the "EF" up. You were the one naive enough to think NK would honor the BS agreement you forced us to enter into. You and your friend Bill Clinton are directly responsible for providing NK with the technology they needed to build a bomb.

Stop blaming Bush for your stupid decisions. You gave them the technology, not Bush.

Go away you old fool!
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Oct, 2006 11:53 am
Ahhhh .... Jimmy Carter - certainly a powerful example of someone able to Recognize and deal with a threat
0 Replies
 
Asherman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Oct, 2006 12:03 pm
Iran and the DPRK ... victims? whew!

Blueflame, and others are convinced that the United States is evil, and has been evil going back to at least WWII. Apparently only the Saintly Clinton was wise enough to treat the DPRK Kim dynasty as the honest, peace loving people they presumably are. As Saint Clinton was God's gift to the nation, so the demon Bush is the devil incarnate.

The problem, according these folks, seems to be that the United States has a powerful military. I suppose we could make these people happy if we were to give at least one nuclear weapon to every country, or organization who wants one ... and then destroyed the rest of our nuclear arsenal.

It seems to me that blueflame's answer to Timber's legitimate question is:
The DPRK IS trustworthy, has always been willing to negotiate in good faith, but has been victimized by an aggressive Imperial United States. If only the United States disarms and disavows the use of its military anywhere in the world under any circumstances, and accepts whatever demands the DPRK makes, then peace is assured.

Since, according to Blueflame, the Bush adminstration is totally to blame for the situation any further obstruction to the Jong-Il's demands might very well lead to a justified war against ROK to liberate them from American slavery, and any attack on Japan is justified because they are under the thumb of Bush & Co. Blueflame has no solutions beyond casting the blame not on the clear aggressor, but upon the United States (specifically the Bush Administration).

The bottom line is Blueflame has no practical response to the DPRK, or Iranian threats. Nothing, zero, zilch.

DPRK threats to regard any response as a declaration of war is typical of their posture. Give in, and they will up the ante and demand more while continuing their efforts to produce a genuine nuclear weapons system. Tough sanctions, really tough sanctions especially by the PRC are the best chance we have of clipping little Jong-Il's wings. If he fires one artillery shell in the direction of Seoul, a massive military response is called for on the part of the ROK, the U.S., the PRC, and Russia.

In fact, a PRC military sweep down into the DPRK to seize and destroy on the ground all of the DPRK nuclear facilities is a pretty good option. Most of Kim's military is facing south down on the DMZ, so an attack south from the border should encounter very little resistance. This military option would very likely result in the downfall of the Dynasty, raising other questions. The PRC likes having a buffer state between them and the U.S. military, and if the DPRK goes away so does the buffer state. Several alternatives are possible.

1. The PRC might reincorporate the DPRK as a Chinese province. Korea until the late 19th century was an autonomous Chinese province, so Chinese claims to govern the DPRk are at least as good as their claims to Tibet and Taiwan. Frankly, I doubt the PRC wants to be responsible for the DPRK in any fashion.

2. The PRC might withdraw back north of the Yalu River, and support Korean Unification under the ROK. This would probably mean that U.S. forces were reduced to a nominal number ... say, 1,000 men prohibited from having any presence above the current DMZ. With the threat posed by the DPRK, U.S. troop reductions probably would be doable.

If the DPRK did not fall as a result of PRC action taken to neutralize the threats, we would still see a definite improvement in the situation.

Do I really believe this scenario is possible? A qualified yes, I do, but only marginally. The PRC would really have to feel that no other effective alternative exists. They certainly don't want to see a re-militerized Japan, or have an increased U.S. military operating so close to their soil. The PRC doesn't want things to get out of hand and result in fighting on the Peninsula that might escalate into the use of nuclear weapons, or that would bring U.S. forces close to their borders. A PRC military operation taken with the tacit permission of the ROK, Russia, Japan and the U.S. would be a win-win situation for them, and would increase their stature as the leading actor in N.E. Asia. I think this might work even better than a set of sanctions that might not.
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Oct, 2006 12:13 pm
Ashermann, that's right Clinton had a good policy going with Koreans. If we survive the evil policies Bushie we may get back to sanity. But IF is a very big word while Bushie is so determined to start WW3.
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Oct, 2006 12:18 pm
blueflame1 wrote:
Ashermann, that's right Clinton had a good policy going with Koreans. If we survive the evil policies Bushie we may get back to sanity. But IF is a very big word while Bushie is so determined to start WW3.


You apparently have a twisted definition of "GOOD POLICY". Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Oct, 2006 12:24 pm
woiyo, Bushie got what he wanted when the Noth Koreans conducted their test the other day. He's done all he could to re-escalate an arms race. That's how his family and their partners in war manufacturing have always done it. And they'll stay that course until the people understand enough to put a stop to it. Reuniting North and South Koreans is detrimental to the profits of America's war merchants.
0 Replies
 
Asherman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Oct, 2006 12:38 pm
Blueflame, you and people like you are without a doubt one of the reasons that Bush won the last election. You folks are a very strong argument for returning Republicans to office ... keep up the good work.
0 Replies
 
 

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