NORTH KOREA CONDUCTS NUCLEAR TEST

Well, not all reports are in yet, but it appears that no radioactivity has leaked.

According to a Russian report the bomb case was a cylinder about ten feet long weighing around 3 tons. That's consistent with a gun type device similar to the Hiroshima bomb. I'll be interested to see what sort of yield they seem to have gotten. I'm a little surprised, in that I expected the DPRK design to be closer to Fat Man. Oh well ....

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http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Clintons/AlbrightandKimJonIl.jpg

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Asherman wrote:

I'll be interested to see what sort of yield they seem to have gotten.

Apparently 550 tons TNT. US said intelligence had detected a "seismic event". The White House said it cannot confirm a nuclear test at the moment. Russia said it was "100 percent certain" that a nuclear test had occurred.

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Text of the official announcement:

Quote:

"The field of scientific research in the DPRK (North Korea) successfully conducted an underground nuclear test under secure conditions on October 9, Juche 95 (2006) at a stirring time when all the people of the country are making a great leap forward in the building of a great, prosperous, powerful socialist nation.

"It has been confirmed that there was no such danger as radioactive emission in the course of the nuclear test as it was carried out under a scientific consideration and careful calculation.

"The nuclear test was conducted with indigenous wisdom and technology 100%. It marks a historic event as it greatly encouraged and pleased the KPA (Korean People's Army) and people that have wished to have powerful self-reliant defence capability.

"It will contribute to defending the peace and stability on the Korean peninsula and in the area around it."

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Next question: how will China respond?

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Mission Accomplished. Bushiehit the ground running on nukes doing a 180 on American policy. Clinton had reunited Korean families seperated for 50 years. Bushie smashed that goodwill to bits. "Fueling the Nuclear Fire:
Nuclear Policies of the Bush Administration
by David Krieger, August 19, 2003

The George W. Bush administration came into office with the clear intention to strengthen US global military dominance, including its nuclear dominance, and it has been true to this major policy goal. Under this administration, military expenditures have increased by some $100 billion to approximately $400 billion annually, and nuclear weapons have assumed a far more central role in US security policy.

The administration's blatant disregard for the United Nations Security Council and for long-standing arms control and disarmament efforts are clear signs that it is prepared to chart a unilateral course with regard to security issues. The US has signaled its desire to overhaul its nuclear arsenal by developing smaller and more usable nuclear weapons, which could be used as part of the new "Bush doctrine" of preemption. The administration has developed contingency plans for the use of nuclear weapons against seven other countries and against weapons of mass destruction (WMD) stockpiles of what it considers to be "rogue" states."
http://www.wagingpeace.org/articles/2003/08/19_krieger_nuclear-fire.htm

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Merry Andrew wrote:

Next question: how will China respond?

From the BBC:

Quote:

The US said the reported test was a "provocative act", while China denounced it as "brazen".

In an unusually strong statement against its ally, China expressed its "resolute opposition" to the claimed test and said it "defied the universal opposition of international society".

[...]

The BBC's Rupert Wingfield-Hayes in Beijing says China's statement is an indication of how strongly it is angered by North Korea's action, although Beijing will still be loath to support tougher sanctions against Pyongyang.

oh, well.....

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timberlandko wrote:

http://www.photo.net/general-comments/attachment/1218210/Rumsfeld%20Saddam.jpg

what's your point?

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I'm not sure what the point is but it does show something.

Albright got North Korea to agree to not test or pursue its nuclear ambitions. That didn't change until Albright was no longer in a position of authority. Albright never sold N Korea any military weapons.

Rumsfeld thought Saddam was a great guy and sold him weapons. Rumsfeld then oversaw the invasion to oust Saddam for the way he used those weapons.

.

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Its nice to know that Bush has made us safer. Only one of his "axis of evil" has tested a nuclear device. Another seems to be on its way, but dang its almost like baseball.

He's batting .333, (almost high enough to win the batting championship) which has to mean we are safer.

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Asherman wrote:

Well, not all reports are in yet, but it appears that no radioactivity has leaked. According to a Russian report the bomb case was a cylinder about ten feet long weighing around 3 tons.

Does it surprise you that no radioactivity has leaked? And, absent radioactivity, how do we know they exploded a half-kiloton nuclear bomb, as opposed to just half a kiloton of TNT? (None of theseare rhetorical questions by the way. I truly don't know.)

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Thomas I heard a Russian report that the yield was in the order 5 - 15 kilotonnes.

How can they tell it was nuclear? I'm not sure either but I think the seismic trace might show a particular nuclear character.

I heard someone saying the Korean bomb is far from being weaponised. Although of course they have missiles. And they need oil, perhaps they might do a little deal with Iran. All in all another triumph of GW Bush foreign policy.

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parados wrote:

Albright got North Korea to agree to not test or pursue its nuclear ambitions. That didn't change until Albright was no longer in a position of authority. Albright never sold N Korea any military weapons.

I think that's a bit of a weasel. It's literally true, but ignores that North Korea, after agreeing not to pursue its nuclear ambitions, continued to pursue them anyway. As far as I've heard, the complaint against Albright is not that she got North Korea to sign an agreement, but that she did not get it to abide by it.

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Thomas wrote:

Asherman wrote:
Well, not all reports are in yet, but it appears that no radioactivity has leaked. According to a Russian report the bomb case was a cylinder about ten feet long weighing around 3 tons.

Does it surprise you that no radioactivity has leaked? And, absent radioactivity, how do we know they exploded a half-kiloton nuclear bomb, as opposed to just half a kiloton of TNT? (None of theseare rhetorical questions by the way. I truly don't know.)

I'm surprised by that fact, too. Would a "seismic event" caused by the detonation of a nuclear bomb be different from one caused by the detontation of a conventional bomb?

Here's a BBC article about underground nuclear tests, which says:

Quote:

The release of radiation from an underground nuclear explosion - an effect known as "venting" - would give away clues to the technical composition and size of a country's device, and therefore its nuclear capability.

That would always happen, I'd assume. Could that be measured somehow, over a longer distance?

And, if the reports are right about that - isn't a 550 ton nuclear device really just a far cry from the 15 kton Hiroshima bomb or the 21 kton Nagasaki device?

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Quote:

That (venting) would always happen, I'd assume.

no I think they go to great lengths (or rather depths!) to prevent this. The gases released can give away many characteristics of the device they want to keep secret. Wasnt this test at the bottom of a deep coal mine?

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Steve 41oo wrote:

Quote:
That (venting) would always happen, I'd assume.
no I think they go to great lengths (or rather depths!) to prevent this. The gases released can give away many characteristics of the device they want to keep secret. Wasnt this test at the bottom of a deep coal mine?

So what evidence (other than the Dear Leader's word) do we have that NK really detonated a nuclear device? How did Russia reach the conclusion that they are "100 percent certain" about it? The White House at least has not confirmed that it really was a nuclear test, right?

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Thomas wrote:

parados wrote:
Albright got North Korea to agree to not test or pursue its nuclear ambitions. That didn't change until Albright was no longer in a position of authority. Albright never sold N Korea any military weapons.

I think that's a bit of a weasel. It's literally true, but ignores that North Korea, after agreeing not to pursue its nuclear ambitions, continued to pursue them anyway. As far as I've heard, the complaint against Albright is not that she got North Korea to sign an agreement, but that she did not get it to abide by it.

Taking some steps to face the problem is probably a more rational response to danger than placing blame as to who dropped the ball. The real reason why North Korea, India, etc. have obtained nuclear weapons is simply that as technology marches on, less affluent and sophisticated entities have the capacity to meet the technological requirement. North Korea will certainly not be the last country to seek nukes, nor will it be the last "high risk" country to do so. Let me define "high risk." Nuclear weapons are not a good thing in anyone's hands, but there are some countries that a rational person would be particularly worried to see obtain them.

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old europe wrote:

Steve 41oo wrote:
Quote:
That (venting) would always happen, I'd assume.
no I think they go to great lengths (or rather depths!) to prevent this. The gases released can give away many characteristics of the device they want to keep secret. Wasnt this test at the bottom of a deep coal mine?

So what evidence (other than the Dear Leader's word) do we have that NK really detonated a nuclear device? How did Russia reach the conclusion that they are "100 percent certain" about it? The White House at least has not confirmed that it really was a nuclear test, right?

Well I for one trust our dear leader. I dont know OE. As I said maybe they can tell from the seismic trace - a bit like a can of petrol goes with a whoosh but gun powder goes with a sharp bang - heard through the earth of course.

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from CNN:

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"The transfer of nuclear weapons or material by North Korea to states or non-state entities would be considered a grave threat to the United States," Bush said. "And we would hold North Korea fully accountable for the consequences of such action."

Bush said the United States was still attempting to confirm that a nuclear explosion had actually taken place.

Still, he said, "such a claim itself constitutes a threat to international peace and security. The United States condemns this provocative act."

[...]

A U.S. government official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of political sensitivity of the situation, said the seismic event could have been a nuclear explosion, but its small size was making it difficult for authorities to verify that.

I'd say the verdict's still out. At the moment Bush has limited his speech to condemning NK for claiming it performed a nuclear test.

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NORTH KOREA CONDUCTS NUCLEAR TEST

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