Foley Quits Amid Allegations of Email Sex Scandal

dlowan wrote:

I would be very interested for Timber to make clear what he considers to be the ethical distinctions between "ephebophilia" and "paedophilia".

I think the main point being made is that one term means one thing and is apparently accurate in this case, while the other is not. Pedophilia denotes sex between an adult and a minor, and it does not appear that is germane to this matter.

Now, would you like to explain your ethical distinction between what Foley did and what Clinton did?

OK, ok, I'll admit to ignorance of the term and recent usage of the word 'ephebophilia'.

Could one of you smarties clue in the rest of us so we can follow the arguments?

I just saw something that seems awfully amusing to me, and this seems as good a place as any to mention it: I'm watching Fox news right now, and they keep flashing on the bottom of the screen, "Mark Foley (D) Fla." ! They've done it a bunch of times, but they only leave it up for a second, and then a while later, they pop it up again...

Oh, my, I'm sure they'll be so absolutely miffed when they see that someone messed that up! An honest mistake, to be sure...

Ticomaya wrote:

dlowan wrote:

I would be very interested for Timber to make clear what he considers to be the ethical distinctions between "ephebophilia" and "paedophilia".

I think the main point being made is that one term means one thing and is apparently accurate in this case, while the other is not. Pedophilia denotes sex between an adult and a minor, and it does not appear that is germane to this matter.

Now, would you like to explain your ethical distinction between what Foley did and what Clinton did?

Paedophilia technically implies no such thing necessarily...only liking. As does ephebophilia. Both tend to get used to also imply the action, ephebophilia is often a term favoured by politically active paedophiles, to attempt to give it the cachet of Ancient greek.

Your distinction is absolutely meaningless.


If there is an argument to be mounted distinguishing them, it would be along the lines of youth being closer to age of consent, and therefore an allegation that abusing them is less harmful.

Yes, sure.

Clinton had sex with a consenting adulty, Foley got his rocks off in conversations with underage boys.

Is that so very difficult? I would have thought you could manage to see a difference between children and adults for yourself.

Oh well......no surprise.

§ 22-3020. Aggravating circumstances.


(a) Any person who is found guilty of an offense under this subchapter may receive a penalty up to 1 1/2 times the maximum penalty prescribed for the particular offense, and may receive a sentence of more than 30 years up to, and including life imprisonment without possibility of release for first degree sexual abuse or first degree child sexual abuse, if any of the following aggravating circumstances exists:

(1) The victim was under the age of 12 years at the time of the offense;

(2) The victim was under the age of 18 years at the time of the offense and the actor had a significant relationship to the victim;

(3) The victim sustained serious bodily injury as a result of the offense;

(4) The defendant was aided or abetted by 1 or more accomplices;

................

Moral Outrage

dlowan wrote:

Paedophilia technically implies no such thing necessarily...only liking. As does ephebophilia. Both tend to get used to also imply the action, ephebophilia is often a term favoured by politically active paedophiles, to attempt to give it the cachet of Ancient greek.

Your distinction is absolutely meaningless. [..]

[b]Pedophilia [/b]- [i]sexual activity[/i] of an adult with a child [b]Ephebophilia [/b]- a [i]sexual preference[/i] in which an adult is primarily or exclusively sexually attracted to postpubescent adolescents

dlowan wrote:

Ticomaya wrote:

dlowan wrote:

I would be very interested for Timber to make clear what he considers to be the ethical distinctions between "ephebophilia" and "paedophilia".

I think the main point being made is that one term means one thing and is apparently accurate in this case, while the other is not. Pedophilia denotes sex between an adult and a minor, and it does not appear that is germane to this matter.

Now, would you like to explain your ethical distinction between what Foley did and what Clinton did?

Paedophilia technically implies no such thing necessarily...only liking. As does ephebophilia. Both tend to get used to also imply the action, ephebophilia is often a term favoured by politically active paedophiles, to attempt to give it the cachet of Ancient greek.

Your distinction is absolutely meaningless.


If there is an argument to be mounted distinguishing them, it would be along the lines of youth being closer to age of consent, and therefore an allegation that abusing them is less harmful.

[b]Pedophilia [/b]- [i]sexual activity[/i] of an adult with a child [b]Ephebophilia [/b]- a [i]sexual preference[/i] in which an adult is primarily or exclusively sexually attracted to postpubescent adolescents

Are you using a Clintonian definition of the phrase, "sexual activity"?

Quote:

Yes, sure.

Clinton had sex with a consenting adulty, Foley got his rocks off in conversations with underage boys.

Is that so very difficult? I would have thought you could manage to see a difference between children and adults for yourself.

Oh well......no surprise.

Oh, okay. I have a problem with what Foley did, and I too see the problem as with the age of the boys.

But, as has been stated earlier in this thread, the age of consent in D.C. is 16. Thus, 16 year-olds -- being of the age of consent -- can by definition, consent.

So, Clinton had actual sex activity with a female above the age of consent, and Foley engaged in sexually explicit conversations with a male(s) above the age of consent.


Just so we're clear.

Assuming Foley never had sex with a page may be wrong. He may at least have met up with one in person. Maf54: I miss you lots since san diego.
Teen: ya I cant wait til dc

Ticomaya wrote:

dlowan wrote:

Paedophilia technically implies no such thing necessarily...only liking. As does ephebophilia. Both tend to get used to also imply the action, ephebophilia is often a term favoured by politically active paedophiles, to attempt to give it the cachet of Ancient greek.

Your distinction is absolutely meaningless. [..]

[b]Pedophilia [/b]- [i]sexual activity[/i] of an adult with a child [b]Ephebophilia [/b]- a [i]sexual preference[/i] in which an adult is primarily or exclusively sexually attracted to postpubescent adolescents

Are you making these definitions up yourself, Tico?

Webster.com:

Main Entry: pe·do·phil·ia
: sexual perversion in which children are the preferred sexual object

American Heritage Dictionary:

ped·o·phile
An adult who is sexually attracted to a child or children.

Healthline, main definition:

Pedophilia is a paraphilia that involves an abnormal interest in children. [..] Pedophilia is also a psychosexual disorder in which the fantasy or actual act of engaging in sexual activity with prepubertal children is the preferred or exclusive means of achieving sexual excitement and gratification.

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In short, a pedophile is a pedophile even if he does not engage, or currently engage, in sexual activity with children.

All you and Timber are engaging in is wordplay in any case, intended to blur the issue and instill doubt about just how bad exactly it is what Foley did - pedophile or 'just' ephebophile?, etc. Starting discussions that succeed in bogging indignation down in the contested intricacies of definition does tend to be pretty effective in dispelling negative impact - it scatters the attention.

But by not only engaging in mere wordplay but actually, it seems?, making the word definitions up yourself as you go along to suit the conclusion you want to reach, you sure do go the extra length...