Is America REALLY that bad?

CI
It does seem like yesterday doesn't it? For 8 of the longest years of my life I lived with a kind of fear that I'll remember for the rest of my life.

Montana - some of those points were outrageous and some were just not so.

So, how does it all end? I mean, how do we change the system?

I have taught special ed in the US. The statements Montana made and her experience are quote common all over America. My own son does well on medication as he has one of the most severe forms of ADD/HD it is possible to have. WITH medication he retains about 2 minutes to 1- minutes in attention span. He only does well with Dexedrine to help him. He was only able to complete school, and graduate from high school with a diploma due to the extensive efforts of his parents. One cannot trust that the schools will do or recommend the right thing. There are many variations of having to fight through "due process" with the schools and in many other aspects of our American society. I have seen everything Montana describes, and in five states. It is only the guts of parents who educate themselves and stick up for their child that will determine a successfull outcome for some. Some folks have no recourse but to pull their child from the public schools and do homeschooling. It's too bad that the American society would like to homogenize everything - from our children to the parents. It takes guts to be the "troublesome parent" who does not go along. I know. It took 2 1/2 years of due process and ended up in the federal court, where we WON, to secure an appropriate education for my son!

This one is priceless. The Massachusetts news sent me a copy of the cassette tape of this supposed awareness meeting for "children" where no adults were allowed. One of the young looking parents desguised as a student went in and taped it and sent it to the Mass news who sent out a copy to anyone who wanted one. You wouldn't believe your ears if you heard what they're teaching young children.


http://www.massnews.com/past_issues/2000/Schools/fistrep.htm

Ok, I could go on and on, but I think I covered all the bases I mentioned and have done my part to provide the proof I needed with the help of others here. Thanks for the help everyone :-)

I also home school my son for those of you who don't already know.

I don't know Littlek, but I'm still trying to change it from here. People need to speak up. The people who are the victims are afraid to fight in fear of losing their children. I know this because I was one of them. My real fight started when I left the country and even though my son is out of harms way, I vowed to fight for the people who are still being victimized. That's why I still tell my story after all these years. I know many of you may be tired of hearing it, but I need to get it out there as much as I can. It doesn't help anyone unless many are aware. Fight the good fight I say ;-)

I've seen Montana's case in many different variations, and what it amounts to is that unless we actively prevent it, the government will take over our role and responsibilities as parent, educator, and doctor. Our kids don't belong to us, unless we take charge of their situation.

After my own nightmare of barely surviving public high school in Massachusetts, I vowed I would never send anyone into such a destructive environment. (But that's just me, and a couple dozen classmates in 1981.) This topic deserves its own thread, just for all the information and discussion it's worth.

--- Back to the Executioner's Song ---

I've read the piece about the Saudi executioner several times now, and I'm still puzzled as to why it was posted. Are there people who think it reflects badly on the Saudi people? How? The title of our thread implies something bad is occurring, so could I get some information about what kind of comparison is asked for here?

Is there something repulsive about using a sword instead of a gun?
Or is it that sentencing involves religion as well as government?
Or are we expected to react that women are executed too, and not just men?
Or that like any trade, there are apprentices and trainees?
What are we supposed to be reacting to? Honestly.

We, as a society, come up with rules and regulations according to our own standards. Naturally, other cultures will use their own values and judgements for their system. Are folks here trying to compare our crimes and punishments with theirs, and then claim one or the other is "better"? Is that what this thread is about?

I'm genuinely asking, because I can't tell if I'm supposed to praise or put down the Saudi's because of this article.

To me it seems like an amazing and interesting culture with tradition, ethics, and integrity. Maybe even more than ours! From surveys I've read, I expect they have stronger family life, less pollution, fewer prisons and less crime. But also maybe less education, less technology, fewer natural resources, different morals and different food.

Reading this article, now I'd like to learn more about them, before somebody tries to destroy their culture and heritage, just to make a buck.

Plus I think my friend the mortician would love to talk with this guy, because the transition to death is a very powerful and moving ceremony. I'd love to share a bottle of wine with both of them, and talk about spirituality, community service and beliefs.

The BBC did a good job with this article! What was your honest reaction to it?

Consider, If you were citizens of Saudi Arabia most of you would now be missing body parts.

So Au, does this mean you consider "most of" us to be thieves?

last of the body snatchers

Setanta
Of course not. I meant for openly expressing our views.

Er, yeah, anyway -- I don't really dig on the capital punishment, so, um, I'm going to 'ahem' over that one.

But to try to elevate us by comparing our government with one that is, in my opinion, horribly abusive and restrictive is specious, as Setanta has pointed out. It also conveniently ignores the fact that, in the interest of our own security and wealth (pursuit of happiness and all) we routinely support, either explicitly or implicitly, similar regimes around the world. If Saudi Arabia is so awful, why no talk of liberating them?

Whatever the merits and demerits of living within the borders of the United States, our impact on other citizens of the world is not always positive.

Nor is it always negative, by any means, but if you're going to defend the actions of our government -- and I can only assume that this interaction was intended to deflect some of the criticism of our current administration -- please do not do so by making comparisons with a country with whom our government does business.

yeah lets talk about the Congo, 3 million dead in the current turmoil

The French are sending in troops as we write . . . I do hope old Leopold of Belgium is burning in Hell . . .

Ferget 'bout it, dys. The Congo's got nothing to sell us.

I am reminded of a post by Wilso before the war, in which he pointed out that the people of Zimbabwe could suffer, starve and die, because they have no oil . . .

Our government doesn't use swords, but they do have their own ways of legalized murder. Why is using a sword under religous beliefs, worse than citizens being spontaneously gunned down by police, for being caught in the act of being black? ("No stricknine for me dammit,give me arsenic!)

Exactly my point about "The point isn't to kill the person, but to set a good example."

Everything we do should set a good example. If we're choosing between hanging, firing squad, electrocution, or sword, what would be the good example to set? ... thinking ... thinking ... They're all horrible!

Every society has their own standards, and there's no way to compare them without getting into the internal consistency and integrity of each system as a whole. Context is everything, so for us to judge others is pretty arrogant.

just curious, how many were executed in Saudi Arabia last year compared to Texas?