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What is a Nazarene?

 
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 05:26 pm
I think I could make a bunch of money if I started an institute for logic and debate. Not that I'm so great at it, but I'd hire those who understand it and can teach it.

From my fairly quiet observation of political and religion-spirituality threads - though I pop in with emotional burps from time to time - several people on different sides of questions can discuss things smartly. For example, on another thread, JoefromChicago and Thomas and others are arguing civilly and, in my pov, smartly, on WalMart and its discontents. Or Neo and Timber, here.

I don't want to tell people to be quiet, but I will say a lot can be learned from reading the history of threads in these forums on a2k - which hardly anyone ever looks back at, which is too bad - some about the subjects, and much about the nature of argument.

One of the first problems that I see as an observer, is that Bible enthusiasts often figure other people don't know about it, whereas a number of the people arguing with them know the texts in their different forms cold, and can discuss them at length.
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kate4christ03
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 05:33 pm
Quote:
... that Bible enthusiasts often figure other people don't know about it, whereas a number of the people arguing with them know the texts in their different forms cold, and can discuss them at length.



i agree....Ive met a few very educated non christians that know more about the bible than many christians...but that really wasnt the point here.....we aren't debating scripture
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 05:51 pm
K - I am not engaged enough to go hunt up quotes... but I do get the general impression from what I've read of your posts on different topics that you do speak in a tone of authority, whereas those you announce to have years of reading and study on your points of discussion - or some of them do. They pick up condescencion from 'below' in bible text knowledge, and that aggravates some of them, on whatever side of any given question.

Those who say they are not slamming you but the arguments you make - frustrating as that appears - are trying to get you to hone your argument ability, at the same time they're trying to get you to not equate argument of your points with personal slams.
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Herema
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 05:52 pm
Shocked
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Herema
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 05:58 pm
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b212/Herema/classic40.gif
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 06:01 pm
Condescension is the word I meant, and the spelling still looks wrong to me, after spellcheck.

Various people here are trying to clue you in, Kate, to look to your own discussion style. I just commented on it myself.
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echi
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 06:13 pm
ossobuco wrote:
Various people here are trying to clue you in, Kate, to look to your own discussion style. I just commented on it myself.


Trying to clue her in? Come on. You've done a good job of that, osso. But Setanta and timber, I think, have mostly been having some fun with her. (No disrespect, sirs... you guys rock!)
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 06:18 pm
If ya ain't havin' fun, echi, yer doin' it wrong Mr. Green

I'll certainly not assay to speak for the esteemed Setanta, but I'll cop to havin' a blast with this digression here myself.
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 06:21 pm
I'm with you, Herema.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b212/Herema/classic40.gif

Er, is there a Hisema?
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 06:24 pm
Oh, and for those who have not had the oportunity, seeing Set and timber set on one another can be quite a show - we're freinds, and share a great deal of respect for one another, but in particular when fencing with one another neither offer nor request quarter.
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kate4christ03
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 06:24 pm
ossobuco......i understand what your saying...but to be honest as a christian the basic tenets of my faith are ones that i feel strongly on and will not change.....if that looks to be arrogant...im sorry for that but i wont be swayed from my beliefs.... also this convo wasnt started bc of differences of beliefs or opinions...this started bc of a remark that was made to me that appeared to be snide....and its honestly hypocritical for some people to get mad at christians on here for being firm on their beliefs yet those same people are justified in their firm beliefs that God is an imaginary friend...all christians are violent....etc....and the only people on here who are trying to "clue me in thus far" is you and setanta (who will disagree with whatever i saw bc he sees me as a "bible thumper" who believes in "fairy tales")
and i cant comprehend how you think that isnt a personal slam but an educated point of argument!?
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neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 06:38 pm
Set calls me a bible thumper; and I call him a godless barbarian.

Well, not in so many words. Usually I just call him Set match game.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 06:43 pm
kate4christ03 wrote:
ossobuco......i understand what your saying...

Evidently, you do not accept what is being said, understand it or not.

Quote:
but to be honest as a christian the basic tenets of my faith are ones that i feel strongly on and will not change.....if that looks to be arrogant...im sorry for that but i wont be swayed from my beliefs.... also this convo wasnt started bc of differences of beliefs or opinions...this started bc of a remark that was made to me that appeared to be snide....and its honestly hypocritical for some people to get mad at christians on here for being firm on their beliefs yet those same people are justified in their firm beliefs that God is an imaginary friend...all christians are violent....etc....and the only people on here who are trying to "clue me in thus far" is you and setanta (who will disagree with whatever i saw bc he sees me as a "bible thumper" who believes in "fairy tales")
and i cant comprehend how you think that isnt a personal slam but an educated point of argument!?

Case in point.
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kate4christ03
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 07:04 pm
timber i said i understood but no i dont accept it bc that would go against my faith.....i am assertive that i am right on what i believe as a christian....and i wont be swayed....but ive never been mean to others that disagree with me ......and i am still blown away by the blatant hypocricy of a few in this forum to attack christians for their assertiveness of a particular belief yet turn around and assert their own beliefs filled with ridicule and name calling........do you guys honestly not see it or do you just think its justifiable in those that agree with you but wrong in those that disagree?
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 07:15 pm
Ok, so you aren't interested in any kind of literate argument, but just want to post your particular belief level everywhere. Most readers get that by now.
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kate4christ03
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 07:35 pm
Quote:
Ok, so you aren't interested in any kind of literate argument, but just want to post your particular belief level everywhere. Most readers get that by now.


ossobuco most of the discussions i have joined have had nothing to do with the basic tenants of my faith ie this particular thread...so your comment is inaccurate...and i havent gone about just posting my particular beliefs in reference to my faith...I was just responding to your initial post to me which really had nothing to do with the topic at hand...in no time in this conversation did i condescend towards those i perceive have less bible knowledge with me (scripture had nothing to do with this topic) and you pointed out that i appear that way in other threads yet didnt give examples so i had to make the assumption that it was in times when i did discuss things like Christ being the Savior or God in the flesh etc...which i wont back down on...and i might add that those that disagreed with me didnt back down on their views either...most of the discussions i have had with others in here have been insightful, interesting, and held with a modicum of respect. The only ones thus far that have had a problem with my views are the ones that continuously ridicule the views of many others in here....yet stand firm in their own beliefs...
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 07:36 pm
kate4christ03 wrote:
timber i said i understood but no i dont accept it bc that would go against my faith

Apparently you neither understand nor accept what has been said.

Quote:
.....i am assertive that i am right on what i believe as a christian....and i wont be swayed....

You've every right to be as possessed of any philosophy as suits your fancy, and equally every right to express yourself pertaiing thereto.

Quote:
but ive never been mean to others that disagree with me

Again you misapprejend, alleging attack where none has been offered. It is not you that others attack, it is your proposition and the manner in which you forward that proposition - but as this has been said pricisely in this context a number of times a number of ways, I do not anticipate saying it this time will be of any more positive effect than have been the previous examples.

Quote:
......and i am still blown away by the blatant hypocricy of a few in this forum to attack christians for their assertiveness of a particular belief yet turn around and assert their own beliefs filled with ridicule and name calling

Demonstrate any instance constituting an attack on your person, as opposed to an attack or your proposition and/or its manner of presentation, and you'll have a point. As it stands presently, your proposition has been incompetently presented. You may be capable of competent presentatation, your proposition may be one which can be presented competently, even compellingly - in fact, it is just that, as evidenced by the writings of many, stretching back into the dim mists of antiquity. To date, however, nothing of the sort has been evidenced in this discussion nor on any of the other discussions here of which I am aware of your participation.

Quote:
........do you guys honestly not see it or do you just think its justifiable in those that agree with you but wrong in those that disagree?

Some here see what there is to be seen, others choose to see what they for whatever reason wish or find convenient to be seen. See whatever you wish, for whatever reason you choose to see it so. By and large, one gets from a discussion precisely that which one brings to that discussion, and only that else which one is prepared to take from that discussion. Preparation is the key.
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 07:45 pm
Kate, I don't care one way or the other about your faith. I've been on both sides of those issues. I am saying, faith announcement is not useful as argument, even with many of the faithful.

Being offended, as a person sans faith or a person with one, by someone arguing about those, is what they used to call a red herring - that is, beside the point. Argue the issue or people will be bored fast.
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kate4christ03
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 08:53 pm
this topic has gone way off course my initial point was that you didnt need to seem so snide in your assumption that i didnt care to check out the links....i cant see how this came to you, setanta and ossobuco changing the topic to the manner of my discourse of scripture or me being offended by those that disagree with me...none of you three have given any instances where i am rude to those that disagree with me...or have taken offense to one disagreeing with any statement i have made on scripture....
Quote:
It is not you that others attack, it is your proposition and the manner in which you forward that proposition -

timber can you give examples..Who??..for the most part those that i have discussed with havent been rude or suggested that ive been rude with them... there are only a set few that seem to resort to snide comments and personal insults when debating on here ( and i wasnt speaking of only me being party to insult i specificially said "christians")
Quote:
Demonstrate any instance constituting an attack on your person, as opposed to an attack or your proposition and/or its manner of presentation, and you'll have a point. As it stands presently, your proposition has been incompetently presented


once again i was speaking in general about what ive seen in the past few weeks by those that seem to think christian beliefs are silly.......you have guys that disagree by slinging insults and calling names and ridiculing beliefs..you have guys that think that all christians should be accountable for the atrocities that a few do......and i have already quoted from setanta in particular as an example....and sorry but i dont see how name calling and insults and generalizations of any particular group is preparation for an intelligent debate.....
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kate4christ03
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 09:28 pm
Quote:
I am saying, faith announcement is not useful as argument, even with many of the faithful.
i have used scriptural reference to back every point ive made on here so far in reference to religious discussions....that along with a strong faith in Jesus gives me the assurance im correct in my beliefs as a christian.....i dont just throw faith announcements into an argument and say "that is what i believe so oh well" even in my past post to you i stated that.....
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