Rosie and Extremism

plainoldme wrote:

David -- I am not going to paste and pare your posts,

Mine, or MM's ?

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so I will tell you that being honorable and being logical
are neither mutually inclusive nor exclusive.

I already know that;
I don 't know Y u felt a need to point that out.
David

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timberlandko wrote:

Abuzz Campaign medals are a dime a dozen here, OSD,
and the war stories that go with 'em won't even bring that

I was not an Abuzz campaigner;
I just expressed my opinions there.
David

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woiyo wrote:

Anyone care to support her position with facts showing "christian extremists" blowing themselves up and taking out thousand of innocent victims?

Have any facts of Christian extremists taking hostages and chopping heads off?

Any facts at all ?

ummm..... lessee...

* vlad the impaler

* torquemada and the inquisition

* the crusades ( nah... that one is too easy..)

* the roasting of jacques de molay along with the torture and extermination of the templars ( defenders of the christian faith during said crusades) by philip of france with help from pope clement V

* the witch trials of europe

* the salem witch trials

* hitler and the nazis identified themselves as christians

* the kkk

* eric rudolph

* timothy mcveigh (although this one is questionable)

how's that for starters ? Laughing

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David -- You did not "just express opinions," you battered people, just as you are here with your obnoxious type faces.

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DontTreadOnMe wrote:

woiyo wrote:
Anyone care to support her position with facts showing "christian extremists" blowing themselves up and taking out thousand of innocent victims?

Have any facts of Christian extremists taking hostages and chopping heads off?

Any facts at all ?

ummm..... lessee...

* vlad the impaler

Eh? Dracula was a Christian extremist? You sure?

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* torquemada and the inquisition

* the crusades ( nah... that one is too easy..)

Yes, but it's about all you got, so you better run with it.

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* the roasting of jacques de molay along with the torture and extermination of the templars ( defenders of the christian faith during said crusades) by philip of france with help from pope clement V

* the witch trials of europe

* the salem witch trials

Okay, the most recent of all of the above occurred several hundred years ago.

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* hitler and the nazis identified themselves as christians

Well, they weren't.

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* the kkk

The KKK is/were not Christian extremists, as far as I know. No doubt some were Christians, but they did not act in the name of their faith.

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* eric rudolph

Let's assume, arguendo, that this is true -- although we can only guess at his motivations. That's one within the last 300 years.

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* timothy mcveigh (although this one is questionable)

Yes, questionable. But even if he was, that's only two.

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how's that for starters ?

Okay, nice start ... I guess. You have identified two violent persons who are arguably/questionably Christian extremists, who's actions have occurred within the last 300 years.

It appears your main argument requires you to look back 300 years ago or more for support.

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Quote:

Quote:
* hitler and the nazis identified themselves as christians

Well, they weren't.

You can't say this with any real authority. They were no more or less christian than anyone else who identifies themselves as Christian.

It would be akin to saying 'all the Muslims who commit these bad acts, aren't really muslim, so you can't blame Islaam for what is going on.' A proposition which has been shot down by the right in the past.

Cycloptichorn

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Quote:

It appears your main argument requires you to look back 300 years ago or more for support.

Setting aside the many contemporary Christians (mainly American) who yearn for conflagration in the middle east, why would this 300 years be relevant?

Did the essential or intrinsic nature of Christianity change? Or did the behavior and values of Christians change as a consequence of other factors outside of intrinsic chrisitianity?

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

Quote:

Quote:
* hitler and the nazis identified themselves as christians

Well, they weren't.

You can't say this with any real authority. They were no more or less christian than anyone else who identifies themselves as Christian.

It would be akin to saying 'all the Muslims who commit these bad acts, aren't really muslim, so you can't blame Islaam for what is going on.' A proposition which has been shot down by the right in the past.

Cycloptichorn

I can certainly say it with as much authority as you can claim he was a Christian, or directed in his actions by his Christian faith.

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blatham wrote:

Quote:
It appears your main argument requires you to look back 300 years ago or more for support.

Setting aside the many contemporary Christians (mainly American) who yearn for conflagration in the middle east,

It seems to bear repeating that the fact that many Iraq War supporters are Christians does not mean the Iraq War is a religious war, or motivated by Christian beliefs. Many Iraq War supporters are not Christian.

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... why would this 300 years be relevant?

Because of the topic of this thread. Rosie thinks Christian extremists are just as dangerous as Muslim extremists. That is the thesis that is being discussed.

If you think Christian extremists are as dangerous as Muslim extremists based upon the actions of Christians over 300 years ago, be my guest. But I would urge you, just as I urged kuvasz, to live in the now.

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Did the essential or intrinsic nature of Christianity change? Or did the behavior and values of Christians change as a consequence of other factors outside of intrinsic chrisitianity?

My suspicion is the latter is more apt.

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Quote:

I can certainly say it with as much authority as you can claim he was a Christian, or directed in his actions by his Christian faith.

You're wrong, because it wasn't I who claimed that they were Christian, it was they. Besides, we're talking about Nazis and Nazism, not just Hitler.

And, because you cannot know what was inside their minds, you cannot say that they were not acting according to their faith. Perhaps they misunderstood their faith or had a different interpretation than you did, but you cannot say that they were not Christian with any sort of authority. So, the Nazis stand as an excellent example of what you asked for.

Cycloptichorn

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tico said

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It seems to bear repeating that the fact that many Iraq War supporters are Christians does not mean the Iraq War is a religious war, or motivated by Christian beliefs. Many Iraq War supporters are not Christian.

Agreed. But I refer to those who yearn for the Tribulations, hot coals and flaming frogs falling from on high, the Glorious Revelation Massacree.

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Because of the topic of this thread. Rosie thinks Christian extremists are just as dangerous as Muslim extremists. That is the thesis that is being discussed.

If you think Christian extremists are as dangerous as Muslim extremists based upon the actions of Christians over 300 years ago, be my guest. But I would urge you, just as I urged kuvasz, to live in the now.

Fair enough. Rosie and I don't agree here as to equal magnitude of present extremism or danger. Which is not to say I don't think that contemporary extremist christianity isn't a serious threat to liberty.

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My suspicion is the latter is more apt.

Agreed again. And that is an important notion to work from as regards our understanding and empathy for a part of the world and culture which, for whatever set of historical reasons, has been left behind or has left itself behind. They are, in many important respects, us, just a short while past.

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And no one seems to realize that the leader of the right, Georgie W. is a "born again" Christian. What other evidence is needed to prove that extremist Christianity is as dangerous as extremist Islam? Who has done the most damage and killed more people since 1990?

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Go away, possum.

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I don't know why people do not want to look at the truth. Everyone who has read about George W. Bush knows that he is a "born again" Christian. No one really knows whether he believes in the "rapture". He might, given his cavalier approach to guarding our country from possible nuclear attack by enemies or. perhaps, even by the CIA. No one has explained the collapse of the WTC adequately. The collapse does look like it happened through controlled explosions. Why is everyone so afraid of the truth? The right wing fundmentalists want to take over the country to make it a theocracy after the people have been frightened to death so they will give up their rights without a struggle.

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Hey fartblossom - no one's buyin your schtick. Get lost.

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Here is a real problem. An African-American who is among the group being savaged by the Bushie "born again" crowd, defending Bushie. Some people would call him an "oreo".

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blatham wrote:

tico said
Quote:
It seems to bear repeating that the fact that many Iraq War supporters are Christians does not mean the Iraq War is a religious war, or motivated by Christian beliefs. Many Iraq War supporters are not Christian.

Agreed. But I refer to those who yearn for the Tribulations, hot coals and flaming frogs falling from on high, the Glorious Revelation Massacree.

You may fear them, but as woiyo said, the folks you refer to are not strapping nail bombs on themselves.

Quote:

Quote:
Because of the topic of this thread. Rosie thinks Christian extremists are just as dangerous as Muslim extremists. That is the thesis that is being discussed.

If you think Christian extremists are as dangerous as Muslim extremists based upon the actions of Christians over 300 years ago, be my guest. But I would urge you, just as I urged kuvasz, to live in the now.

Fair enough. Rosie and I don't agree here as to equal magnitude of present extremism or danger. ...

I'm glad you see it my way, blatham.

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Cycloptichorn wrote:

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I can certainly say it with as much authority as you can claim he was a Christian, or directed in his actions by his Christian faith.

You're wrong, because it wasn't I who claimed that they were Christian, it was they. Besides, we're talking about Nazis and Nazism, not just Hitler.

And, because you cannot know what was inside their minds, you cannot say that they were not acting according to their faith. Perhaps they misunderstood their faith or had a different interpretation than you did, but you cannot say that they were not Christian with any sort of authority. So, the Nazis stand as an excellent example of what you asked for.

Cycloptichorn

No, you're wrong. Hitler had his own religion, if indeed he believed in one. He did not follow the tenents of Christianity. I refer you to the Wikipedia article on the subject. (Note what Joseph Goebbels wrote: "The Führer is deeply religious, but deeply anti-Christian. He regards Christianity as a symptom of decay.")

On the other hand, the Jihadists are certainly following the word of the Quran.

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plainoldme wrote:

David -- You did not "just express opinions,"
you battered people, just as you are here with your obnoxious type faces.

Maybe COUNTERbattered.

I did not START trouble
( with a possible exception for communists;
I don 't mind doing the job on THAT filth ).
David

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omsig

I'm a communist and I would like to have anal sex with you. I think I could troll a thousand American trailer parks and not find a more exciting partner than you.

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Rosie and Extremism

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