Careless Nudity

Sorry for the confusion...
My motivation for my original post was steeped in anxiety, apprehension and sadness about my GF's behavior regarding careless nudity. Why? Because once I and a woman are serious enough to add physical expression to our feelings and relationship, I hold great value and meaning to this physical bonding. I feel a sense of betrayal if the woman disrespects and devalues this by abusing the privacy this aspect should naturally have.



In a similar sense as this quote, breeching the privacy and specialness of her naked body and the physical expression that are a part of this relationship, does indeed devalue and cheapen the beautiful nature that I feel this is supposed to have for the people in the relationship.

I may have been trying to express my feelings on this at the same time I was trying to get the situation described and in doing so created some ambiguities in the hastened process. Sorry! Looking back I can see how things I said might be misinterpreted and not made totally clear.

I think the main problem here is that I have tried to describe many incidents here in summary and they came across as conflicting. The main point being that there are many instances and variations of my GF either flaunting herself or talking about it. So relative to some specific posts here, there were multiple times when my GF was naked or partially naked in front of me and her girls or other people. For example: (all different times here)

Coming out of the shower and into the bedroom, me still in bed (covered) and either the girls open the closed door to come in to ask the mother something.

GF in bed with me, the door closed, the girls knock and want to come in. GF says it's ok to come in, we are under the covers. At some point covers slide off GF's top or GF gets out of bed naked in front of them (different instances). I make sure I stay covered. GF and I always have the door shut and even locked. One of the times this happened the one daughter wanted to cover my eyes.

The other day we were in bed with the door locked and the girls unlocked the door (poke tool though small hole in typical bedroom door handle) and came in. We were under covers but had started engaging in something. We stopped quickly enought when we heard the door opening and we were completely covered.

We were under the covers girls were in the room asking what we wanted for breakfast as they were going to make it for us. GF told the girls to leave the room so we could get up. GF walks out of bedroom totally naked while I was getting up and dressed with the door closed. About 10 minuttes later I walked into the living room and GF was sitting at a piano totally naked while the girls were on the couch watching TV. The girls made a comment about her being naked in front of me and she got up and said something like "Oh gosh girls...it's just skin!" I was leaving and I told her to put something on so she puts on a shirt or jacked and walks me to the door totally bottomless. I felt uncomfortable even opening the door to go out with her standing right there like that.

There were similar times when some of this kind of thing took place, like the one I mentioned in the other post where she had a robe on. Sorry for the confusion in the way I jumped around with the different incidents.

Years ago she was topless on the courthouse lawn with the father of her kids.

She sometimes wears a top that is way too loose when not wearing a bra so that leaning forward exposes her breasts. Even her 9 year old made a commeny about this.

She has worn a shirt that was somewhat transparent depending on how the light hit it and she was not wearing panties.

As far as GF parading around in public view: She does live in the country with no neighbors close by except her mother and step father about a couple hunders yards away with no direct view between the houses. There are hunters just about right in her yard in the fall and the house is angled to the road enough to have visibililty. There is also not much traffic on this country road. GF claims she is very careful when hunters are around. She does not have curtains on her windows and at night with the lights on in the house one can see in through the windows. Granted someone would have to be peeping from her yard or from the woods or just driving up the road but that certainly is not unheard of. Just like the one quote of the person seeing the woman undressing in front of the window.

I don't trust her discretion day or night whether I'm there or not there. I have seen her walk out into the living room at night when I was sitting in a chair in front of the curtainless windows with the lights on. She was totally naked and had no reservations whatsoever.

I have never seen or heard anything about her prancing around her yard naked. Although I fear this kind of thing. She was at my house which is also out in the country but I do have neighbors on either side of me and across the street. The 2 on either side can see into my back screened in porch and the one across the street could see part of my driveway. On one side there are kids who do come over here occasionally to ask to borrow something. They also play in their yard, between our yards and in the field sometimes behind my house. GF parks her car in the middle of my cirular driveway visible from all neighbors. She was standing in my kitchen naked one morning and wanted to run out to her car totally naked to get some clothes she left there. I was freakin' out and would not let her do this. She was defending it saying it's just a matter of convenience and that no one is around to see. She has absolutely no way of knowing who is around or not around relative to my neighbors.

Another time this summer she wanted to have sex with me out on MY screened in porch. Again someone could see us if they looked over at the porch. Or if someone (like kids next door) came over they come to the back of the house where the porch is and would clearly see us. I told her we should go into the bedroom or at least on the living room floor but she wanted the porch. She was walking around out there with no reservations and she got her way.



Yeah mine too...herein lies the problem. With the exception of this whole nudity thing and a couple of other smaller issues, everything else about this woman is incredible, wonderful and seemingly almost perfect. You know like a soulmate. I have never had most of the feelings I have for her with anyone else in my life. I have always questioned if I ever really was in love with anyone before in my various relationships. I feel overwhelming feelings for this GF but I keep forcing myself to hold back because of this big problem as I see it. She wants me to let go and love her back and take things to the next level. The times I try to talk to her about her nudity quirks she gets agitated and defensive and usually makes me feel embarassed and prudish for feeling the way I do. I have not given her an ultimatum and and realize that you cant just tell someone to stop or change. If she can't truely see the problem and want to change herself then it will never happen. If she manages to then she would probably resent me and it would probably resurface at some time in the relationship.

So I was not exagerating anything and then trying to correct it but rather referring to different times and instances. I'm not sure I understand why anyone would get on here and make stuff up and I really don't get how someone could get a thrill out it. This is depressing for me. The best prospect for a true love finally comes into my life and then there has to be a show stopper type of problem with her.

She has demonstrated some conflicting views on things especially related to some femminist type viewpoints. I think that she has had the need in her past to subscribe to some femminist views and that original need may not be present anymore. I think she has had a need to show a wild side in her past that she really doesn't need to display anymore. I think the nudity flaunting is really a kind of immature hold over from a need it fulfilled at a different place and time in her life. She is professing very intense feelings and love for me now including talk of spending the rest of her life with me in marriage. She tells me things I have never heard a woman tell me before and we experience things (feelings) neither of us have ever experienced before. She is an intelligent woman working on her masters and plans to go on for her PhD. She has a history of abuse as a child from her real father and spent a lot of time living in different places with differnet people like older sisters as a result of the abusive home. I know that adult survivors of child abuse can have mental problems and issues related to this.

So to the possible end that she see the light and mend her ways recognizing that she might be holding on to some outdated behaviors and attitudes, I have hope and have not given up yet.

So I hope I have made clear what my intentions were in posting here. I hope I clarified everyones points of confusion. I really was looking for a site to ask a psychologist about much of this but have not found one yet. Does anyone know of any??? Dr. Phil maybe? They probably don't answer many emails like that though.

From now on I would insist she wear socks.

Seriously...

Is it possible your girlfriend is an exhibitionist?

Might she be getting a little thrill by all this?



Women don't wear semi-transparent skirts with no panties by accident, believe me.

I thought this from the very first post.

The lady obviously gets turned on by the thought of being watched, or having the risk of being caught, IMO.

I like girls like this. A friend of mine's wife loves to show off. She will oftentimes display herself in a short skirt sans panties. Amazing how many times she has to bend over.

It's the main reason I bought a camcorder.

Re: Sorry for the confusion...


Why not ask a real psychologist? In person? If you guys are seriously considering getting married, there are clearly issues that need to be resolved first -- and there is only so much that we can do, there.

For example, even if we all agree that she's tripping on another planet and needs to get her act together -- then what? Us saying so won't make it happen. You saying "I told these people on a website about you and they say you should quit already," probably won't make her say, "Sure, no problem!"

You guys need to talk to each other, if you want to make this work, with the assistance of a professional. IMO.

Re: Sorry for the confusion...

Good post, JPB.

That's enough! I am never going out with a naked woman again!

I can't help it, I burst out laughing every time I read the part about being careful around hunters. Smart girl!


<smooches to LE>

I hope you're not trying to expose yourself whilst giving me a virtual smooching, JPB.

I have an elephant gun, don't y'know.

Am i the only one wondering what the hell her kids are doing jimmying the lock on the bedroom door...?

Glad this had been entertaining..
If I were not involved in this I would probably be lauging at it too..... I can see how a lot of this looks but don't forget their is always ambiguity in written expression. Things get left out, things get assumed and things get glossed over and misinterpreted....

We definately are not in sync on this issue. That's a no brainer... But there are enough mixed signals for me to question how much of this is a neccessary part of who she really is and how much is based on something that is no longer paying off. When I said outdated behavior I meant from a psychological perspective, people do form habits and behaviors to serve a purpose at a give time. But that behavior can stay with a person long past the life of that original purpose. If I believed that this was totally cut and dry and that this is just the way she is, had been and always will be then I will be long gone. She vascillates betwee this kind of behavior and the total opposite prim and proper behavior all the time. She defends her behavior some times but condemns it in other people other times.

Also if I didn't give a damn about her I wouldn't be so intense on all of this.

Yes the hunter thing does seem pretty comical but again taken somewhat out of context without the full scope of understanding it sounds ridiculous.



It should be her problem when her kids are crying out for her not to do these things and she blows it off to minutia. If I'm not in her life to deal with this then someone else will be and if they like it that does nothing for the kids.
It's also a problem for her if this is going to drive me away given what she has professed to me as what she wants.
Yes we do have conflicting perspectives...some of the time. Herein lies part of the problem with her mixed signals and internal conflicting attitudes. I'm not trying to attack her in all of this. I'm just struggling with wanting a solution as so many other parts of this relationship are very much right.

I'm not that ultra conservative but I can see how it would seem that way. The majority of people I talk to about anything like this feel pretty close to the way I feel. Granted there are guys out there that not only are accepting of this kind of thing but they thrive on it. Guys who are with strippers or porn stars and guys who want their wives in Penthouse or Playboy etc.. There are all kinds out there. I have no problem at all with naked woman....are you kidding, I think it's great! Hell I dated a stripper 10 years ago or so. I would not have developed a serious relationship with her though because I know how I feel when there are serious feelings involved.

I'm probably going to get in trouble with this one.... but the femminist comments are related to things like it's a woman's right to go around without her shirt on like a man. I'm not arguing this point but rather explaining how it relates to what I have been saying. I do think that femminists, like other groups, sometimes do things to exagerate a point in order to make it. She was on a "kick" about this kind of thing at one time. So my intent is not to determine what she needs or doesn't need, but from her history that she has shared with me I know that there are some femminist ideas and involvement that most definately have shaped her behavior and perspectives. She has had some very unhealthy, severe events that tool place which definately have shaped her outlook and behavior.

Yes she is currently getting counseling but according to her the counselor doesn't want to talk about the abuse issues. Yeah...I know but this is what she told me.... Perhaps he wants to focus one thing at a time.

Do you really think that her behavior and attitude is progressive and healthy and the way of the future? Would you really want your girlfriend or wife or whatever to be flaunting herself for others to see? If so don't you worry about the kind of trouble that could bring? Again I realize that there are some people out there that are into that kind of thing but does that make the concept of private intimacy and physical aspects of that intamacy outdated? Also are the more normal, tradional values especially with regard to the her kids and their voicing of my similar concerns, outdated?

We all have our opinions and I thank you for all our yours....

Oh man, again, so many different issues that it's hard to respond...

I'll start with this.

Say that there's complete agreement here that she is wrong and should always be completely clothed in the presence of anyone but you.

Then what?

Bail or be damned.
I threw in the towel awhile ago about grasping these obfuscating details as it only seems to get darker and darker.

I stand by my original thought. Bail or be damned.

If it were completely valid and on the level then I would feel better equipped to weight and support my presentaton if I am able to get into another sincere heart to heart with her about this. I think one of the reasons people get on forums like this is to look for validation and support. I believe in my original post I acknowledged, in an openly curious way, that I might have some issues regarding the degree I feel some of this.

I will say again -- if your goal is to resolve this issue, talk to her about it in the presence of a professional counselor.

You already have had heart-to-hearts with her about this, right? How did it go. Not very well, right?

I just don't see anything that happens here as helping that much.

It's an interesting subject to debate on non-specific level, as has happened here in between your appearances.

But the vibe I get -- and it's just a vibe, I'm not making any definitive claims here -- is what you're looking for here is ammo. You want to talk about it here and then go back and say that it's not just you, all of these objective strangers think she's a whack-job, too.

While that's your perogative, if your goal is to resolve this issue, I think you need to involve a counselor.

If you've already decided at some level that you need to leave her and you're looking to get "validation and support" for that, that's something else. Personally, I get too many hints of what the other side of this story might be to be comfortable saying that you should do that.

But no matter what, there is a central conflict that needs to be resolved -- whether the resolution is to figure out a way to stay together, or to figure out that you can't stay together.

Good luck.

Whack job...
Good post! Thanks!

I agree and that is in the works to talk together with a counselor. That was a pretty good call as well as making me laugh, about me wanting the objective support that she is a whack job. I hate to call it ammo even though it might be a form of it.

Yes I need to arrive at one decision or the other in staying or leaving. I think the counselor can help with all of this.

Thanks!

Cool.

Let us know how it all goes..!