What causes racial hatred: racists or racial friction?

Sentanta: (he's fixated on rape--shades of the resurgent Klu Klux Klan lynchings of the late 19th and early 20th centuries!).

My aunt was ganged raped about a year ago, by whites, so I don't know if I am fixated on this, as you say, but maybe that situation makes rape more pronounced in my mind.

Sentanta: any substantiation on his part, anyone here would be a fool to accept his base premises about the motivations for crime

I don't know how to answer this one. Do you really think there are no racially-motivated crimes in America? Do you really think that there is no job or housing discrimination, no hate speech, no hate crimes....

0 Replies

Frank: Essentially the same arguments Joe is using could be used to logically show that if we kill everyone in a particular country and there is no one left alive -- there will be no racial hatred or friction there.

No, what I am saying is that racial friction is a function of racial diversity.

For example, if Israel were mono-racial, Jews only, she would still have hate from other sources, but Israel would be dramatically less filled with hate.

Do you really think that there would still be a thousand people a year placed in torture chambers in Israel, as has been the case, if Israel was mono-racial? Would the whites there start putting other Jews in torture chambers? Would Jews start strapping dynamite to themselves and blowing other Jews up?

0 Replies

Craven: I repeat, Brazil has far less in way of racially motivated crime than the US.

I've read too much about the subjegation and mistreatment of the Indians and Blacks there to believe what you say. Its been very bad historically.

But, can you give me a source for the numbers of hate crimes there, or the problems in housing and job discrimination?

0 Replies

JosephMorgan
I just happened upon this thread and haven't read all the comments. However, along with your many specious statements you classify the problems in Israel as stemming from racism. Let me advise you that both the Palestinians and Jews are Semitic peoples and the problem is not one of race but religion. If one looks back at history they would find that religious differences and intolerance is as deadly as racism.

0 Replies

Joseph,

You neglect burden of proof. YOU contend that "Brazil is saturated with racial cruelty and hate" so come up with your own data before I spend time refuting it.

Your logic is absurd.

You say that X esists only where A exists therefor A causes X.

Let's play with that simple logic for a while:

Violence only occurs between humans breathing in amounts of oxygen. Therefore oxygen causes violence.

Violence does not occur between dead people, therefore life causes violence.

Racial tention between humans does not exist in areas where humans are not found, therefore we should rid ourselves of humans to be free of racial tension.

When you are done finding proof for your claims about brazil we can tackle this logic. It's flawed and in the most obvious ways.

0 Replies

More "Joe" logic:

Flies are found where there is rotten meat. Therefore rotten meat is how flies are produced.

This could get very fun.

0 Replies

JosephMorgan wrote:

Iceland and Japan are devoid of racially-motivated rapes, murders, assaults, robberies, housing discrimination, and job discrimination. They are mono-racial.

Japan is not so much devoid of "racially-motivated crime" as it is simply relatively devoid of crime in general. Japan is a nation that has traditionally been very racist towards those outside its borders (now where does that fit in your theory), but racism continues to drop as Japan becomes an ever more multi-cultural environment (both in its business dealings & the number of foreigners living here). In certain parts of Tokyo the population is less than 50% Japanese. I live in Japan. Like a number of others here have done, I implore you to avoid subjects you know nothing about.

Additionally, you have completely ignored my last post, which, as I have also suggested above, noted that increased racial diversity frequently reduces racially motivated violence.

Monger wrote:

..a study from Germany stated the neighborhoods with the highest levels of racially motivated hate crimes had some of the lowest levels of interratial diversity. This study documented that, in German areas where the foreign population has been increasing over the years, the rate of race-related violence has been dropping.

My explanation for this would be that it's a lot harder to stay racist when many of your friends, family and people you respect are of a different race than you.

0 Replies

Joe, you quoted me saying "Essentially the same arguments Joe is using could be used to logically show that if we kill everyone in a particular country and there is no one left alive -- there will be no racial hatred or friction there"...

...and then wrote:

Quote:

No, what I am saying is that racial friction is a function of racial diversity.
Quote:

Why did you include the word "no" in that sentence.

Not only is my statement correct -- it probably is more logical as a solution to the problem as you posit it than is your solution.

If you are correct that racial diversity is a cause of racial friction -- one way of ensuring there is no racial diversity is to have everyone dead.

Do you not acknowledge that even among what may seem to be a racially non-diversified large group (a country of people is a large group) -- there actually exists racial diversity?

How does one insure that there is no racial diversity unless everyone (perhaps save one individual) is eliminated?

Quote:
For example, if Israel were mono-racial, Jews only, she would still have hate from other sources, but Israel would be dramatically less filled with hate.

Let me give you an example based upon my statement above: Do you not agree that if everyone in Israel were killed -- Israel would be even more dramatically less filled with hate than if it were composed of only mono-racial Jews?

Quote:
Do you really think that there would still be a thousand people a year placed in torture chambers in Israel, as has been the case, if Israel was mono-racial? Would the whites there start putting other Jews in torture chambers? Would Jews start strapping dynamite to themselves and blowing other Jews up?

That seems to have more to do with certain racial hatreds you are dealing with (seemingly not too successfully) than with bolstering what you are asserting here. In any case, I categorically reject your assessment that my comment about your comments being equivalent to suggesting we kill everyone in order to get closer to acheiving racial harmony are not correct.

0 Replies

I was wondering if Monger would do the Japan and racism thing. I have lived there for years and if he didn't do it I would have.

Going back to Brazil:

Racial subjugation existed there in a big way. The Catholic church recognized Indians as human beings rather late in the game.

Now Brazil suffers from very low levels of racially motivated crime. It sffers greatly from hate crime against homosexuals, now I bet you start a topic saying that crimes against homosexuals donot occur when there are no homosexuals, therefor homosexuals are the cause of crimes against homosexuals :-).

Look, whenever cultures clash there is a chance that animosity will breed violence. But it is due to ignorant obdurate minds. History has shown us that such relations can be ameliorated and it is said improvements in race relations that show us that it is not the presence of diversity that causes problems so much as the feeble thinking applied in the face of such a situation.

The thinking can change. Sure there will always be the idiots who will not learn but they are not caused by diversity. They are caused by feeble minds and stubborn refusal to get past the color barrier.

I posit that ridding ourselves of such thinking is a more wothwhile attempt.

Sure, we can't get everyone to be rational, this thread is proof of that, but neither can we eliminate diversity. Since diversity is not th cause of such flawed notions we should target what is. Even when it seems hopeless.

0 Replies

JosephMorgan

Quote:

This same racial hatred exists within the Semitic community. Jews are not putting Palestinians in torture chambers because they don't like Islam. Right? They are involved in a race war in Israel. There are also complaints of racism inside Judaism, between the various Jewish groups

Based upon the above quote I would ask you to define your concept of racism. From your ramblings to this point it would seem to have come directly from the KKK handbook.

0 Replies

Au1929: However, along with your many specious statements you classify the problems in Israel as stemming from racism. Let me advise you that both the Palestinians and Jews are Semitic peoples and the problem is not one of race but religion.

Jews want Israel for Jews. Palestinians want Israel, (or occupied Palestine as they call it), for Palestinians. Would the Jews accept the Palestinians if they converted to Judaism, no, because there is a racial test for citizenship for Israel, not a religious test.

Somewhere around half of the Jews in the apartheid state of Israel are not religious, most of the leaders of the takeover of the land were self-professed atheists. The hatred directed at Jews by Palestinians does not differentiate between religious Jews and non-religious Jews, anymore than the hatred directed at Palestinians does not differentiate between religious Palestinians and non-religious Palestinians.

Have you ever heard a Palestinian shout, "Death to the religious Jews!"?

0 Replies

Obviously, JosephMorgan, you don't only know about Brasil and Canada than those living there - you have lived or still live in Israel as well?(Have you ever heard a Palestinian shout, "Death to the religious Jews!"?)

0 Replies

Au1929: However, along with your many specious statements you classify the problems in Israel as stemming from racism. Let me advise you that both the Palestinians and Jews are Semitic peoples and the problem is not one of race but religion.

Monger: Additionally, you have completely ignored my last post, which, as I have also suggested above, noted that increased racial diversity frequently reduces racially motivated violence.

What you say is counter intuitive. How could you have more racially-motivated crimes in Germany where there are no non-whites, compared to places that are multi-racial? For example, how could you have racially divided neighborhoods in an area that was still 100% white?

Since you sited a source for this that you said you have, could you give it?

Monger: Japan is not so much devoid of "racially-motivated crime" as it is simply relatively devoid of crime in general.

Would you increase the amount of racially-motivated crimes and other forms of discrimination in Japan if large numbers of Arabs and Africans moved there? Japan is nearly 100% Oriental, with a small percentage of non-Orientals: Russians, etc. The only way to judge the degree of racism in a country is using practical statistics, not assumptions.

Are there neighborhoods that people are afraid to enter in Japan for racially motivated reasons? That would give you a practical way to judge the degree of hatred that shows itself in Japan. Right? You're using assumptions, because hate crimes and all the other ugly manifestations of racial hatred don’t exist in mono-racial Japan.

The question for the Japanese is, how much would you benifet from multi-culturalism relative to the suffering that would occur from the increase in racial hatred.

That is the importance of people understanding the cause of racism, racial friction, and not mistaking the symptom, racists, with the cause.

0 Replies

Walter: Obviously, JosephMorgan, you don't only know about Brasil and Canada than those living there

I know that people are openly and vigorously trying to address the problems of racial hatred there. I know that commissions, agencies, laws, web sites that have been established to stop the hate are a growth industry.

0 Replies

JosephMorgan

I wonder, when you have been the last time in Germany.

0 Replies

JosephMorgan wrote:

... The only way to judge the degree of racism in a country is using practical statistics, not assumptions.

Are there neighborhoods that people are afraid to enter in Japan for racially motivated reasons? That would give you a practical way to judge the degree of hatred that shows itself in Japan. Right? ...

And you really think, there are statistics about that???

0 Replies

Walter Hinteler wrote:

JosephMorgan

I wonder, when you have been the last time in Germany.[/quote

JosephMorgan
I would also like to know the last time you've been to Canada.

0 Replies

I'm also wondering if JosephMorgan lives in the US? Wink

c.i.

0 Replies

I was wondering that myself CI. Hmmmm.....

0 Replies

JosephMorgan wrote:

What you say is counter intuitive. How could you have more racially-motivated crimes in Germany where there are no non-whites, compared to places that are multi-racial?

That's not difficult to explain. What was happening was that the few non-whites living in & visiting the areas had a much greater proportional risk of danger than they would in far more muti-racial areas.
However, I want to apologize for having quoted a report without offering any information about it. A few months ago I found the article at the top of google news, but I'm not able to locate it anymore. Feel free to disregard what I said about the German study. I'll try to avoid quoting things I can't reference in the future.

JosephMorgan wrote:

You're using assumptions, because hate crimes and all the other ugly manifestations of racial hatred don't exist in mono-racial Japan.
The question for the Japanese is, how much would you benifet from multi-culturalism relative to the suffering that would occur from the increase in racial hatred.

In one sentence you claim I'm simply using assumptions (if that's what you want to call 15 years of first-hand experience), then in the next you make your own ignorant assumption about the dangers that lie ahead should Japan allow "Arabs and Africans" to move in.

0 Replies

What causes racial hatred: racists or racial friction?

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know