Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Aug, 2006 04:26 pm
Epi,

It had to be Jesus. He had no sin. 1/3 of the angels that went with Satan were in rebellion against God and therefore were obviously sinning. Jesus was incapable of sin, without blemish, spotless, and perfect.
0 Replies
 
EpiNirvana
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Aug, 2006 04:37 pm
What about the other two thirds? That showed there were capable of sin but the remaining didnt. All it had to be was sinless blood....so find a sinless angel and send him to be sacrificed.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Aug, 2006 07:25 pm
Oh, let's see so if God just chose an angel to be crucified on the cross you think that should have been good enough? The point is Epi, THERE WAS NO SIN IN HIM. HE WAS COMPLETELY INCAPABLE OF SIN. The angels were obviously capable of it. Caps meant for emphasis only.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Aug, 2006 07:30 pm
Arella Mae wrote:
Epi,

It had to be Jesus. He had no sin. 1/3 of the angels that went with Satan were in rebellion against God and therefore were obviously sinning. Jesus was incapable of sin, without blemish, spotless, and perfect.
Careful. You may wish to think that Jesus was incapable of sin. That fits in well with the trinitarian point of view. But, remember that in addition to resisting temptation, Jesus, "Although he was a Son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered" (Hebrews 5:8) Obedience makes little sense if one is incapable of disobedience, n'est pas?
0 Replies
 
EpiNirvana
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Aug, 2006 07:30 pm
If he was incapable of sin then why would satan tempt him?
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Aug, 2006 07:34 pm
Good question, Epi.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Aug, 2006 07:37 pm
EpiNirvana wrote:
If he was incapable of sin then why would satan tempt him?


Because Satan refuses to believe He has the power, authority, etc. that he has. Satan already knows he's lost the game but it doesn't stop him from trying, does it?

Neo,

Jesus was not capable of sin. He was perfect. He was the Son of God.
0 Replies
 
EpiNirvana
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Aug, 2006 07:45 pm
So Jesus ,being god, atually died for 3 days. He forsakend the world then? Isnt there a vers saying god doesnt sleep yet always watches us?
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Aug, 2006 07:46 pm
God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. The body of Jesus died. Not His spirit.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Aug, 2006 07:47 pm
We should stop for a moment and look at how and why God sent Jesus to the world.

He was sent as a man. Capable of feeling what man feels; capable of knowing what man knows; capable of speaking as man speaks; capable of seeing what man sees.

It certainly follows that Jesus was capable of sinning. That is why he was tempted. Of course, he did not sin. But, he would be capable of it. This shows that we have the ability to be perfected. Some of us will take longer than others is all.
0 Replies
 
EpiNirvana
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Aug, 2006 07:50 pm
IF jesus was god and became man i think he was capable of sin b/c he was all man, but as the bible says he did not sin, yet he was tempted. Plus doesnt it take more power not to sin then not to be able to sin?
0 Replies
 
kate4christ03
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Aug, 2006 07:56 pm
ok epi and neo i will repost this once more....
"Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. "mt 4:1

when in doubt check the greek....the term tempted used in this verse and throughtout this story is Peiravzw which literally means
(by impious or wicked conduct to test God's justice and patience, and to challenge him, as it were to give proof of his perfections) It doesnt mean that CHrist struggled with sinning...
You might ask if CHrist couldnt succumb to sin, why would satan try to tempt him......well look at satans past...he a created being tried to overthrow his creator (God)....it wasnt possible but satan in his pride thought he could succeed....same in the case of matthew 4.....
and btw Neo there are no flaws in the trinity its biblical
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Aug, 2006 07:58 pm
Thank you Kate, I couldn't have said it better myself!
0 Replies
 
EpiNirvana
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Aug, 2006 08:00 pm
Well kate's explaination makes sense enough. I still believe its another verse added after the the orignal writings.

here is a hypothetical, LISTEN A HYPOTHETICAL!

What if Jesus had sinned, he couldnt die for sins and such, so couldnt god have to send an angel then? I mean his son was already tainted so...?
0 Replies
 
kate4christ03
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Aug, 2006 08:01 pm
LOL EPI .....I GIVE UP Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Aug, 2006 08:32 pm
Well, I still say He was incapable of sin.

Quote:
"Could Jesus have sinned? If He was not capable of sinning, how could He truly be able to 'sympathize with our weaknesses' (Hebrews 4:15)? If He could not sin, what was the point of the temptation?"

Answer: No, Jesus could not have sinned. If He could have sinned, He would still be able to sin today because He retains the same essence He did while living on earth. He is the God-Man - and will forever remain so, having full deity and full humanity so included in one person as to be indivisible. To believe the Jesus could sin is to believe that God could sin. Colossians 1:19, "For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell." Colossians 2:9, "For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily."

Although Jesus is fully human, He was not born with the same sinful nature that we are born with. He certainly was tempted in the same way we are, in that temptations were put before Him by Satan, yet remained sinless because God is incapable of sinning. It is against His very nature (Matthew 4:1; Hebrews 2:18, 4:15; James 1:13). Sin is by definition a trespass of the Law. God created the Law, and the Law is by nature what God would or would not do; therefore, sin is anything that God would not do by His very nature.

To be tempted is not in and of itself sinful. A person could tempt you with something you have no desire to do, such as to smoke crack or participate in a homosexual act. You probably have no desire whatsoever to take part in these actions, but you were still tempted because someone placed the possibility before you. There are at least two definitions for tempted:

1) Tempted - To have a sinful proposition suggested to you by someone or something outside yourself or by your own sin nature.

2) Tempted - To consider actually participating in a sinful act and the possible pleasures and consequences of such act to such a degree that the act is already taking place in your mind.

The first definition does not describe a sinful act/thought, the second does. When you dwell upon a sinful act and consider how you might be able to bring it to pass, you have crossed the line of sin. Jesus was tempted in the fashion of definition 1, except that He was never tempted by a sin nature because it did not exist within Him. Satan proposed certain sinful acts to Jesus, but He had no inner desire to participate in the sin. Hence, He was tempted like we are but remained sinless.

Jesus knows what it is like to be tempted, but He does not know what it is like to sin. This does not prevent Him from assisting us. We are tempted with sins that are common to man (1 Corinthians 10:13). These sins generally can be boiled down to three different types: the lust of the eyes, the lust of the flesh, and the pride of life (1 John 2:16). Examine the temptation and sin of Eve as well as the temptation of Jesus, and you will find that the temptations for each came from these three categories. Jesus was tempted in every way and in every area that we are, but remained perfectly holy. Although our corrupt natures will have the inner desire to participate in some sins, we have the ability to "just say no" to sin because we are no longer slaves to sin but rather slaves of God (Romans 6, especially verses 2 and 16-22).

http://www.gotquestions.org/could-Jesus-have-sinned.html
0 Replies
 
EpiNirvana
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Aug, 2006 08:52 pm
Very intresting website i searched around there for awhile but biblically i found problems with alot of things siad on that site. Alot of this is the exact truth mentality...but none the less thanks for the link.
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Aug, 2006 08:54 pm
Arella Mae wrote:
Well, I still say He was incapable of sin.




I say he was capable of sin....His will overcame the temptations to do so.
0 Replies
 
EpiNirvana
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Aug, 2006 09:00 pm
Arella Mae wrote:
Answer: No, Jesus could not have sinned. If He could have sinned, He would still be able to sin today because He retains the same essence He did while living on earth. He is the God-Man - and will forever remain so, having full deity and full humanity so included in one person as to be indivisible.


Im intrested in this paragraph. First of seeing this it seams right. But Jesus died, and he rose again in spirit and his body was taken up, but he did not return physically. So couldnt the Man part of him be separted then? B/c dieing for our sin was the ultimate sacrifice, he didnt need to rise again to complete our ticket to slavation, it was already finished. So the rising agian was just a piece to b/c fully god again.
0 Replies
 
kate4christ03
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Aug, 2006 09:12 pm
jesus in the flesh was still fully God...he was incapable of sin.......there is no scripture to back up the belief that Jesus could have sinned...and dont use the "satan tempted him" thingy please....i already explained that ........ Very Happy
0 Replies
 
 

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