Trinity?

real life wrote:

. . . The fall of man in the Garden of Eden AND God's promise to send a Redeemer occurred long before the 'challenge' of Satan in the book of Job.

Jesus came to Earth, not because of a 'challenge' by Satan, but because of the love of God for fallen humanity.

The Bible does not teach that Jesus is an angel. It specifically refutes the idea. . .

If you carefully read the words of Satan in the third chapter of Genesis, you will see that the integrity of all creation was challenged by Satan's insinuation that God was a liar and was withholding something desirable from his creations. The story of Job is simply another manifestation of his twisted thinking.

Certainly Jesus was willing to die for his love of humanity. But what was the purpose of his brutal suffering if not to allow Satan the full measure of his wrath?

The 'purpose' of His suffering was to pay the penalty for our sins, according to the Bible.

You will find ample reference in the Bible regarding this purpose, and scant reference regarding 'showing' or 'proving' anything to Satan.

Do you still want to insist that Jesus was an angel?

Certainly Jesus was willing to die for his love of humanity. But what was the purpose of his brutal suffering if not to allow Satan the full measure of his wrath?

Jesus, being the foremost angel, the firstborn of God's creation volunteered himself because he would be the quintessential example of obedience and submission to God's sovereignty

Neologist wrote

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Certainly Jesus was willing to die for his love of humanity. But what was the purpose of his brutal suffering if not to allow Satan the full measure of his wrath?

There is no scripture for this view. The bible is clear Jesus came to be our redeemer, he came to die for our sins. . .

sorry neologist i dont see how this verse shows that he was trying to prove anything to satan ?

Jesus was seen as an adversary to satan Yes...but why? bc satan knew that Christ came to earth to die for us and satan didnt want that happening..that is why he tried to tempt Jesus into sinning.....but it was impossible bc Jesus was still fully God while being man....

Satan fears the truth. That you believe it was impossible for Jesus to be tempted into sin is a fatal flaw in the trinitarian doctrine

Satan has been said that his fall was because of his love of mortal women, thats why he doesnt apear till Job

The infatuation of spirit creatures with human women was documented in the story of Noah.

Well, epi, Satan fell when he decided to become Satan and conscripted Adam and Eve into his rebellion. The infatuation of spirit creatures with human women was documented in the story of Noah.

Satan's conversation with God in the book of Job merely reiterates his contention with God: namely that God's creatures serve him only out of selfishness. Additionally, it reminds us that for many years after Eden, Satan had complete freedom to roam about the earth and heaven. This freedom was to end according to the 12th chapter of Revelation.

I really think your eisegesis of Jesus' temptation is lacking in veracity. You can restate it if you think it might help.

neologist wrote:

Well, epi, Satan fell when he decided to become Satan and conscripted Adam and Eve into his rebellion. The infatuation of spirit creatures with human women was documented in the story of Noah.

Satan's conversation with God in the book of Job merely reiterates his contention with God: namely that God's creatures serve him only out of selfishness. Additionally, it reminds us that for many years after Eden, Satan had complete freedom to roam about the earth and heaven. This freedom was to end according to the 12th chapter of Revelation.

But my point is how did they know the deal bettween God and the Devil? Why would a suposedly loving god make such a deal?

The answere has to be god is a sadist or that its mythology, this stuff was happening to Job and he had his own explanation as to why it might be happening after it was over, and someone took that story as truth.

But my point is how did they know the deal bettween God and the Devil? Why would a suposedly loving god make such a deal? The answere has to be god is a sadist or that its mythology, this stuff was happening to Job and he had his own explanation as to why it might be happening after it was over, and someone took that story as truth.

real life wrote:

The 'purpose' of His suffering was to pay the penalty for our sins, according to the Bible.

You will find ample reference in the Bible regarding this purpose, and scant reference regarding 'showing' or 'proving' anything to Satan.

But his purpose for coming into the world was to proclaim the truth, right? Wouldn't that make him the nemesis to the 'father of the lie'?
"For this I have been born, and for this I have come into the world, that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone that is on the side of the truth listens to my voice." (John 18:37)
(Hmm! That would make him a messenger, wouldn't it?)

And consider these words at Revelation 3:14:
"And to the angel of the congregation in Laodiceia write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God . . . "
To whom or what was Jesus faithful?
Does it have anything to do with the time Jesus was tempted? He was faithful then. Did Satan give up or just wait until a "more convenient time"? (Luke 4:13)

real life wrote:

Do you still want to insist that Jesus was an angel?

Not Just any angel. . .

1Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.

2For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;

3How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

4God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

5For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak.

6But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man that thou visitest him?

7Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:

8Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

9But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

11For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

12Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.

13And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

15And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

18For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: Col 1:16

Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
Rev 4:11

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. John 1:3

we will have to agree to disagree on the reference on the angels in genesis and jude.....
Neologist wrote

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I really think your eisegesis of Jesus' temptation is lacking in veracity. You can restate it if you think it might help.

neo how is it lacking...i went straight to the greek for that one.......you can disagree as much as you want...but go to the greek and see for yourself... I know that your belief hinges on the fact that Christ is a created being (an angel) but that belief isnt in scripture at all...Many verses call Jesus God....and God cant sin ...that is why Christ didnt sin......bc he was God in the flesh....and btw it was an exegesis on that scripture not isogesis......