Trinity?

lol epi no hard feelings Twisted Evil

lol....but i disagree with your synopsis of the bible. to me its pretty simple...God created us.....we sinned and lost any chance of being with God in heaven (cause he is perfect and sin cant enter into his presense) so he sent his son Jesus(second person of the trinity) to come and die for us...as hebrews says "without the shed blood there is no remission of sins"......and yes he knew we would sin bf he even created us but still created us to show us his mercy and love...... and since it's so simple......what's stopping ya from believing....? Very Happy

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The logic involved (or lack there of). Why would the sins of two ppl punish us all till the end of time? Why would the sheeding of one Inocence cure that? Why would God create us just to Know that we would turn on him? Why would God offer us choice then punishes us for exersizing set choice?........I love Greek mythology b/c the had lots of stuff like this but they always covered there there flaws.

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GRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!! Mad

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Look Kate, you must know this...

All I ever do is spread doubt about anything I believe is a dogma. If this means the stupid little piece of dogma about how electrons orbit a nucleus in circular paths like planets around the sun, so be it. (Electrons orbit the nucleus in a far more erratic and complicated way.)

If it means any religion, so be it.

EpiNirvana, I suspect does the same thing.

If you think your religion is simple, then you've got to do a whole lot of rethinking. Nothing is as simple as it first appears.

May I also point out to Kate that the first Liberals were Christian. In fact, were it not for Christianity, you would not have Liberalism. After all, many of the Liberal policies can be said to have been based on Christian teachings.

I always find it funny that fundamentalist Christians vote Conservative, when it's Liberal policies that follow Christ's teachings better.

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WOLF O DONNELL WROTE

Quote:

All I ever do is spread doubt about anything I believe is a dogma

lol wolf no offense but no dude over the internet would cause me to doubt what i believe.....I know for me the story of salvation is simple. If its complicated for you im sorry. and the definition of a liberal christian (which has nothing to do with politics) is one who doesnt believe the bible is Gods literal word, or that Christ is the only way for salvation, and other various points that basicly contradict the bible/.....
But i enjoy conversing with guys like you.....and as you believe you need to "try" to spread doubt amongst us christians i believe i need to spread truth to you doubters Very Happy

here is a good one....For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. john 3:16-18..that teaching is straight from Jesus' mouth

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kate4christ03 wrote:

WOLF O DONNELL WROTE
Quote:
All I ever do is spread doubt about anything I believe is a dogma

lol wolf no offense but no dude over the internet would cause me to doubt what i believe.....I know for me the story of salvation is simple. If its complicated for you im sorry. and the definition of a liberal christian (which has nothing to do with politics) is one who doesnt believe the bible is Gods literal word, or that Christ is the only way for salvation, and other various points that basicly contradict the bible/.....
But i enjoy conversing with guys like you.....and as you believe you need to "try" to spread doubt amongst us christians i believe i need to spread truth to you doubters
here is a good one....For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. john 3:16-18..that teaching is straight from Jesus' mouth

then why are you here? i use this to find others beliefs and find holes in the or to exept something i find logical. And Wolf is right, i like to spread doubt, it spreads thinking which is better for anything.

And next i have to say. Is that the salvation prosses is complex. It doesnt make sense that a infinate god wouldgo through pain when he can just say us clean...IF Christianity is true there has to be some type of Holy rules or something, that states why god had to die, why incocent cleanses impurity...

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Quote:

then why are you here? i use this to find others beliefs and find holes in the or to exept something i find logical. And Wolf is right, i like to spread doubt, it spreads thinking which is better for anything

Well i think i answered that already..."i like to spread truth to doubters"
also i enjoy debating with others that disagree with me.......

God required a blood sacrifice to cleanse sin...and Christ was the only blood sacrifice that would be sufficient....that is why he did it....

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but why is his the only suffiecent one? Wouldnt the death of a god cause more pain to a dependant world, wouldnt if he rose again be bitter angry? Why would his outlook on life change form old to new testament, if he knows everything wouldnt he be merciful first? Why do the sins of two ppl scar us all? Why wouldnt god gives us a second chance after death? Why does god not simply show himself? Wouldnt God want to keep the church pure? Why would god let Satan ruin his paridise?.....

There just to many question that can not be answeed with out, god doesnt tell us,(obviously that why im asking).

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kate4christ03 wrote:

lol epi no hard feelings lol....but i disagree with your synopsis of the bible. to me its pretty simple...God created us.....we sinned and lost any chance of being with God in heaven . . .

If Adam and Eve were faced with the choice of either heaven or hell, why would not God tell them outright? Instead, he promised them they could live forever in the Garden of Eden (translation: Paradise of Pleasure) and that the consequence of disobedience was not hell, but death.

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kate4christ03 wrote:

Quote:
then why are you here? i use this to find others beliefs and find holes in the or to exept something i find logical. And Wolf is right, i like to spread doubt, it spreads thinking which is better for anything

Well i think i answered that already..."i like to spread truth to doubters"
also i enjoy debating with others that disagree with me.......

God required a blood sacrifice to cleanse sin...and Christ was the only blood sacrifice that would be sufficient....that is why he did it....

All that was required was for a perfect human to substitute for Adam. Any angel could have done it. Jesus, being the foremost angel, the firstborn of God's creation volunteered himself because he would be the quintessential example of obedience and submission to God's sovereignty. This is why God would not have done this himself. Satan's challenge applied to all of creation, including the greatest.

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kate4christ wrote:

and since it's so simple......what's stopping ya from believing....?

Oh, I dunno...
Maybe the fact that the whole idea is completely preposterous?

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Yea really, not all angels sinned, they were created sinnless, only 1/3 rebeled. Why could god send one of them? How do we know he didnt?

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EpiNirvana wrote:

Yea really, not all angels sinned, they were created sinnless, only 1/3 rebeled. Why could god send one of them? How do we know he didnt?

Send one of which? For what?

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neologist wrote

Quote:

All that was required was for a perfect human to substitute for Adam. Any angel could have done it. Jesus, being the foremost angel, the firstborn of God's creation volunteered himself because he would be the quintessential example of obedience and submission to God's sovereignty. This is why God would not have done this himself. Satan's challenge applied to all of creation, including the greatest

are you a jehovah's witness?

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neologist wrote:

EpiNirvana wrote:
Yea really, not all angels sinned, they were created sinnless, only 1/3 rebeled. Why could god send one of them? How do we know he didnt?
Send one of which? For what?

An angel

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EpiNirvana wrote:

neologist wrote:
EpiNirvana wrote:
Yea really, not all angels sinned, they were created sinnless, only 1/3 rebeled. Why could god send one of them? How do we know he didnt?
Send one of which? For what?

An angel

Sinful or righteous?

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Righteous obviously, although if it was evil that would be a really cool story, a bat lands on his shoulder instead of a dove Twisted Evil

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neologist wrote:

kate4christ03 wrote:
Quote:
then why are you here? i use this to find others beliefs and find holes in the or to exept something i find logical. And Wolf is right, i like to spread doubt, it spreads thinking which is better for anything

Well i think i answered that already..."i like to spread truth to doubters"
also i enjoy debating with others that disagree with me.......

God required a blood sacrifice to cleanse sin...and Christ was the only blood sacrifice that would be sufficient....that is why he did it....
All that was required was for a perfect human to substitute for Adam. Any angel could have done it. Jesus, being the foremost angel, the firstborn of God's creation volunteered himself because he would be the quintessential example of obedience and submission to God's sovereignty. This is why God would not have done this himself. Satan's challenge applied to all of creation, including the greatest.

The fall of man in the Garden of Eden AND God's promise to send a Redeemer occurred long before the 'challenge' of Satan in the book of Job.

Jesus came to Earth, not because of a 'challenge' by Satan, but because of the love of God for fallen humanity.

The Bible does not teach that Jesus is an angel. It specifically refutes the idea.

Quote:

Heb 1:4 So he has become better than the angels, to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs.

5 For example, to which one of the angels did he ever say: "You are my son; I, today, I have become your father"? And again: "I myself shall become his father, and he himself will become my son"?

6 But when he again brings his Firstborn into the inhabited earth, he says: "And let all God's angels do obeisance to him."

He goes on to contrast Christ with angels by showing that Christ is the Creator God spoken of in Ps 102 (quoted in Hebrews 1:10-12), for he says that these things were written in reference to the Son

Quote:

Heb 1:7 Also, with reference to the angels he says: "And he makes his angels spirits, and his public servants a flame of fire."

8 But with reference to the Son: "God is your throne forever and ever, and [the] scepter of your kingdom is the scepter of uprightness.

9 You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, your God, anointed you with [the] oil of exultation more than your partners."

10 And: "You at [the] beginning, O Lord, laid the foundations of the earth itself, and the heavens are [the] works of your hands.

11 They themselves will perish, but you yourself are to remain continually; and just like an outer garment they will all grow old,

12 and you will wrap them up just as a cloak, as an outer garment; and they will be changed, but you are the same, and your years will never run out."

13 But with reference to which one of the angels has he ever said: "Sit at my right hand, until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet"?

14 Are they not all spirits for public service, sent forth to minister for those who are going to inherit salvation?

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all i have to say Real life is amen Very Happy

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real life wrote:

. . . The fall of man in the Garden of Eden AND God's promise to send a Redeemer occurred long before the 'challenge' of Satan in the book of Job.

Jesus came to Earth, not because of a 'challenge' by Satan, but because of the love of God for fallen humanity.

The Bible does not teach that Jesus is an angel. It specifically refutes the idea. . .

If you carefully read the words of Satan in the third chapter of Genesis, you will see that the integrity of all creation was challenged by Satan's insinuation that God was a liar and was withholding something desirable from his creations. The story of Job is simply another manifestation of his twisted thinking.

Certainly Jesus was willing to die for his love of humanity. But what was the purpose of his brutal suffering if not to allow Satan the full measure of his wrath?

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