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Political Correctness: Make a Judgment

 
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Apr, 2007 07:27 pm
Foxfyre:

Quote:
And I'm guessing you don't have any close white friends, at least any worthy of the name.


Dang, that's gonna be news to the 20 or so who will be at my wedding, and also to my wife and her family.
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Roxxxanne
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Apr, 2007 07:52 pm
Quote:
This whole thing relates back to when I said that a black man in america would understand better than would a white man how it is that black men are regarded in america. I thought when I said it that it was a no-brainer statement. I still do


It is a no-brainer, with one caveat, I would add "generally-speaking." Most whitefolk don't have a clue about what it is to be black. That is just a fact and that they (I use they as I don't consider myself a Cauacasian) have a problem dealing with that fact proves the point.
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kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Apr, 2007 09:46 pm
Foxfyre wrote:

And I'm guessing you [Snood] don't have any close white friends, at least any worthy of the name. I'm guessing that if you did, you would have a different perspective. Throwing the PC garbage out the window is a good first step in having such a relationship.


Apparently, according to Foxfyre, "PC garbage" is defined as "not allowing your white friend to call you "N-word". Source

And then going to have coffee together.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Apr, 2007 10:16 pm
snood wrote:
Foxfyre:

Quote:
And I'm guessing you don't have any close white friends, at least any worthy of the name.


Dang, that's gonna be news to the 20 or so who will be at my wedding, and also to my wife and her family.


And that's all you took from my post? That's pretty amazing in itself.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Apr, 2007 10:19 pm
Sometimes when people say things that are ridiculous and personally insulting, others have a hard time focusing on the overall message. Right?

I mean, it's the line that you've pulled time and time again...

Cycloptichorn :wink:
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Thu 26 Apr, 2007 10:31 pm
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kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Apr, 2007 12:34 am
Cyycloptichorn:

It's the line I've pulled several times because it illustrates the phoniness of the poster telling the story. It is clear that Lash and Foxfyre want to lessen the stigma against whites using the N-words against blacks, and these ridiculous stories are concocted to serve that purpose.

The right, or at least the part of the right inhabited by Lash and Foxfyre, seem to consider that getting the N-word acceptable on this forum comprises some sort of significant victory, and it stinks.

I remember reading an article where the leader of a women's group said that rape is the ultimate weapon men have against women-women have no commensurate threat against men. I think most would agree.

Similarly, it seems to me that use if the N-word against blacks is a similar situation. Call us what they will, no epithet blacks can use against whites can compare to the N-word whites can use against them. And use it white people did, for many years.

So when the civil rights revolution took place and society decided to finally open itself up to black people, that word slowly was pushed aside. Not right away, of course. It is not like the Civil Rights Bill of 1964 was passed and white people sudently said, "Oh well, out goes the N-word out of my vocabulary". But slowly it happened.

Just to give a brief timeline, I was watching an old romantic comedy from 1958 or so on TV and the romantic heroine-a sophisticated New York reporter no less-arrived at a wealthy house. While perusing the luxurious furnishings of the house, the heroine said, "I am surprised you don't have pickanninies in the corner playing banjos". Notice, this was not said by a crude character, but by the heroine in a prettied up Hollywood treatment of the chic high livers. This says a lot about the position of black people in the fifties-you can just imagine what white people thought was acceptable to say to blacks away from Hollywood's prettied up world.

In the late sixties I got a summer job in a factory, my first full time job. There was a black couple working there. During my very first break, I saw the black guy go to the soda machine while a few tables away a white guy was railing at him, "He licks her black nipples like chocolate" and on and on. There was machinery going, I don't know if the black guy didn't hear him or felt he had to grin and bear it. At any rate, a white guy screaming epithets at a black guy just for working in the same place, in suburban New York, drew no notice in the late sixties.

By the early seventies I was in upstate New York and another black man got a job there. Several workers including myself were talking, and one guy started talking about "the N-word" working there, repeating it over and over, (out of the black worker's earshot).. These were farmboys, not especially socially conscious. Their reaction? They just uncomfortably moved away. Nobody confronted the race baiter, but nobody wanted to listen either. Quite a change from a few years before.

There were setbacks. A year or so later, Earl Butz, a member of Nixon's Cabinet, said the following on Air Force One:

Quote:
"I'll tell you what the coloreds want. It's three things: first, a tight pussy; second, loose shoes; and third, a warm place to ****."


He was forced to resign shortly after.

Perhaps partly because of this-a Cabinet member being forced to step down because of a racial remark is a big victory for a group that was so universally put down-and because of the various court decisions and simple social momentum, by the eighties or so it had become pretty universally recognized that racial jokes were out. Employees who made them were routinely fired. Public figures who made them were routinely forced to step down. Even more important, people who still made racist jokes were considered "out of it" both professionally and socially, in so many ways.

Mind, if a black person walked into the room from the mid eighties on, he had no gurarantee that there would not be a reaction from people-just that he had a fair expectation that something nasty would not happen just because he showed up and he was black. And he had a decent expectation that the people in charge would do something about harassment.

And so it stayed for the last twenty years, with the idea that people who throw around epithets were really "out of it" getting stronger, if anything. And bit by bit black people took places in society that they had not before. If things were not perfect, at least they were moving along nicely in the right direction. Some of it was simply mathematics-the people who were middle aged when the civil rights movement first achieved success, (1964), were by the mid eighties retired or getting ready for it, and were replaced by people who by and large understood the new racial realities.

So now come along the Lashes and Foxfyres-people who are just so sick of all this "politically correct" stuff. They want you to believe that all that civil rights stuff is so passé and that the really hip thing is to brag about how little you care if anyone else gets upset by what you say. Especially about blacks. In a couple of decades we have gone from cabinet secretaries openly insulting blacks to being unable to turn on Wall Street Week or similar shows without seeing some black guy who has made millions. Progress is all around us. Yet the conservatives-or the Foxfyre-Lash conservatives anyway-want to return to the days before the Earl Butzes had to worry about fallout from their "politically incorrect" statements.

Well, I don't see any merit in going back there, thank you very much. I think much progress has been made by the present social compact of not using the worst epithets of the past, and am quite unwilling to yield to any new Conservative Chic movement letting those words back in unless somebody besides the likes of Lash or Foxfyre presents some real evidence that that is the way it goes now. And so far, I haven't seen it. Indeed, Imus has just shown quite clearly that the Conservative Chic standards of what is okay to say is a lot more hype than reality.
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snood
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Apr, 2007 03:19 am
Foxfyre:

Quote:
I'm just saying I've never known a black person who did who saw things quite the way you seem to see them.


If I didn't know who you are on this forum from previous posts, I'd swear you were putting forth some kind of parody of an absolutely clueless, yet arrogantly sure white person, and just laugh my ass off.

But knowing you're actually serious, let me just answer in kind and say I've never known any black people who think that friendship with whites means anything that you seem to think it does.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Apr, 2007 07:56 am
snood wrote:
Foxfyre:

Quote:
I'm just saying I've never known a black person who did who saw things quite the way you seem to see them.


If I didn't know who you are on this forum from previous posts, I'd swear you were putting forth some kind of parody of an absolutely clueless, yet arrogantly sure white person, and just laugh my ass off.

But knowing you're actually serious, let me just answer in kind and say I've never known any black people who think that friendship with whites means anything that you seem to think it does.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Apr, 2007 08:29 am
pssst...by the by
http://mediamatters.org/static/images/home/politico-20070426.gif
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HokieBird
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Apr, 2007 08:35 am
kelticwizard wrote:

...and am quite unwilling to yield to any new Conservative Chic movement letting those words back in unless somebody besides the likes of Lash or Foxfyre presents some real evidence that that is the way it goes now. And so far, I haven't seen it. Indeed, Imus has just shown quite clearly that the Conservative Chic standards of what is okay to say is a lot more hype than reality.


Conservative chic? Imus? He supported Kerry.

Quote:
Asked by radio host Don Imus last week to explain how he could be so critical of the war yet stand by his vote to authorize the use of force, Kerry responded with a 324-word answer, including a discussion of no-fly zones and Iraqi tribal separatism. The response left Imus -- a self-described Kerry supporter -- perplexed. "I was just back in my office banging my head on the jukebox,'' Imus told listeners when the interview was over. "This is my candidate, and ... I don't know what he's talking about.''

http://www.sfgate.com/templates/types/popunder/iii-interactive/iii-interactive.html


More like "leftist chic".
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Apr, 2007 09:21 am
For the record--for anyone reading keltic's bile--the assertions he makes about me and my views are products of nothing other than his twisted imagination.

They have no basis in fact.

He is invited to take his delusion lies elsewhere.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Apr, 2007 09:23 am
Ditto Lash's post.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Apr, 2007 09:27 am
Psssst re George Soros and Media Matters: George Soros DOES fund most or at least several of the organizations that fund Media Matters. See HERE
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Apr, 2007 10:18 am
Foxfyre wrote:
Psssst re George Soros and Media Matters: George Soros DOES fund most or at least several of the organizations that fund Media Matters. See HERE


Sorry, but CNS straight makes sh*t up and is not considered a reliable source.

Cycloptichorn
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Apr, 2007 11:10 am
Okay, here's some more sources if you don't like CNS

http://www.nationalreview.com/nrof_luskin/luskin200405050850.asp

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=7150

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,268043,00.html

http://www.frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=25189

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20031229/alterman

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55298

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/16/AR2006071600882_pf.html
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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Apr, 2007 11:59 am
Foxfyre wrote:
Psssst re George Soros and Media Matters: George Soros DOES fund most or at least several of the organizations that fund Media Matters.


Your WaPo link, at least, doesn't really support that contention. Mr. Soros does of course fund organizations which encourage democracy, and I'd not be surprised to find him involved in funding, directly or indirectly, groups like
Quote:
Media Matters for America, which tracks what it sees as conservative bias in the news media.


also from your WaPo link

Quote:
Stein has closely studied the conservative movement -- often with envy. Armed with a PowerPoint presentation for potential donors, he argues that Republicans dominate the federal and many state governments because they methodically made investments in groups that could generate new ideas, shape public opinion, train conservative activists and elected officials, and boost voter turnout among conservatives -- aware that there was no near-term payoff. Liberals have done nothing comparable, he said.

"It is not possible in the 21st century to promote a coherent belief system and maintain political influence without a robust, enduring local, state and national institutional infrastructure," Stein said. "Currently, the center-left is comparatively less strategic, coordinated and well financed than the conservative-right. These comparative disadvantages are debilitating."



they call it politics

Perhaps there will be a leveling of the playing field with this sort of activity. Perhaps not.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Apr, 2007 01:01 pm
And we can imagine how closely foxfyre read Alterman's piece, for goodness sakes. Did she read anything here?

That "Soros funds Media Matters" is false. That Soros money funded elsewhere ends up going from them to Media Matters is possible but I've yet to see evidence of it. The first piece foxfyre posted is typical..."connections", which means anything the writer or reader wants it to mean.

Anyway, tough luck. The funding from rich right wing extremists like Scaife and Coors have been going on full bore for two or three decades.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Apr, 2007 01:58 pm
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FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Fri 27 Apr, 2007 02:25 pm
So you'll be willing to apply that conclusion to your own sources then? I wonder who funds CNS news...
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