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Political Correctness: Make a Judgment

 
 
Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Aug, 2006 03:28 pm
The term "tar baby," which has only been used by rightwing bigots as of late, is clearly designed to subtley placate the racist elements of the Republican party. Racism is still prevalent in American society. Just look at Hurricane Katrina.

Therefore, there's a reason why so few African Americans support the Republican party. I suggest buying a few more clues before going down this worthless road again.
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Aug, 2006 03:42 pm
You must not have read the thread, Dookie

No one has suggested that racism is no longer an issue.

So, you say only racists use the word...? No one could be innocent of that meaning?
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flushd
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Aug, 2006 08:35 pm
I hadn't even heard of the term 'tar baby' until I saw a post by dlowan, what seems a long time ago. So I looked it up.

Frankly, it's annoying how a bunch of meatheads can take over perfectly good words and get away with it.

I for one am not going to avoid using the term bc it may offend some people.

The intent is part of the meaning in words. I would never use the term in hate.

However, one always has to take into account the company around one. It's good to know what other meanings this term has come to hold - if only so as not to get beaten or persecuted for using a word!
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Aug, 2006 08:57 pm
Thanks for adding in, flushd.

You really pinpointed it.

When did intent lose all meaning?

<sigh>
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snood
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Aug, 2006 09:12 pm
Yes, its a much misunderstood word. Would that the damn PC police would leave us enlightened folk be, so we could exercise full, untethered useage of mother English.

I see much education still needed on the positive, or at the very least non-threatening uses of such old favorites as "jigaboo", "porch-monkey", and "Liver-lip".
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Aug, 2006 09:22 pm
Since you've used more ethnic slurs than anyone else here, maybe you should educate everybody.
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snood
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Aug, 2006 09:24 pm
Hey, you brought it up, I just thought I'd go along for the ride....

You DO welcome my opinions, dontcha, Lashie?
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Aug, 2006 09:26 pm
The term arises from one of Joel Chandler Harris' tales in which the fox constructs a decoy figure out of tar (tar baby) and the rabbit, unable to get a response from the tar baby, attacks it and gets hopelessly stuck. The original story and the way Romney used the term have nothing to do with race relations.
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Aug, 2006 09:35 pm
snood wrote:
Hey, you brought it up, I just thought I'd go along for the ride....

You DO welcome my opinions, dontcha, Lashie?

Until you showed up, everyone was civil.

Typical for you.
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Aug, 2006 09:37 pm
Thanks for the reiteration of the facts, gunga.
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gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Wed 2 Aug, 2006 10:23 pm
snood wrote:

I see much education still needed on the positive, or at the very least non-threatening uses of such old favorites as "jigaboo", "porch-monkey", and "Liver-lip".


You seem to be a sort of an expert on political correctness here....

Something I'm a little bit curious about, and I suspect most observers will have noticed that there is a sort of a difference between the way some of these terms are used in California vs in the rest of the country.

What sort of an opinion, if any, do most American blacks have of Quentin Tarantino films, particularly Pulp Fiction, and the scene in True Romance in which Denis Hopper explains the origin of Sicilians to the mafia heavy (Walken)? I'd be curious to know whether blacks have any sort of a case of the ass, or angst over that sort of thing, or whether they view it as funny, or what exactly.
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Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Aug, 2006 12:06 am
As the term in question is offensive to an entire cross-section of society (predominantly African Americans), I fail to understand what the problem is other than the traditional whining from rightwingers that we're too PC.

I guess one cannot be persecuted for using the "N' word either. Unless you're White, of course.

Our complex history is what eludes those who attempt to simplify the meaning behind an entrenched ideological term. It is a segregated culture (conservative white America) which isolates itself from understanding the weight of this issue.
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snood
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Aug, 2006 05:05 am
gungasnake wrote:
snood wrote:

I see much education still needed on the positive, or at the very least non-threatening uses of such old favorites as "jigaboo", "porch-monkey", and "Liver-lip".


You seem to be a sort of an expert on political correctness here....

Something I'm a little bit curious about, and I suspect most observers will have noticed that there is a sort of a difference between the way some of these terms are used in California vs in the rest of the country.

What sort of an opinion, if any, do most American blacks have of Quentin Tarantino films, particularly Pulp Fiction, and the scene in True Romance in which Denis Hopper explains the origin of Sicilians to the mafia heavy (Walken)? I'd be curious to know whether blacks have any sort of a case of the ass, or angst over that sort of thing, or whether they view it as funny, or what exactly.


I can't speak for "most black americans", just for myself. (Do you speak for most white ones?) Tarentino's useage of certain language has been the subject of controversy several times. One notable argument was between Spike Lee and Samuel Jackson over Tarentino's use of the N-word in "pulp fiction".
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snood
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Aug, 2006 05:15 am
Dookiestix wrote:
As the term in question is offensive to an entire cross-section of society (predominantly African Americans), I fail to understand what the problem is other than the traditional whining from rightwingers that we're too PC.

I guess one cannot be persecuted for using the "N' word either. Unless you're White, of course.

Our complex history is what eludes those who attempt to simplify the meaning behind an entrenched ideological term. It is a segregated culture (conservative white America) which isolates itself from understanding the weight of this issue.


I think "isolating themselves from understanding" is a particularly apt way of putting it. It isn't so much that they don't or can't understand - it's more that they just damn well don't like the idea of having to. To them it can't possibly be that these considerations are simply a common courtesy way of sparing some needless hurt - to them its just another imposition on their very diminished dominion.
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snood
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Aug, 2006 05:49 am
Lash wrote:
snood wrote:
Hey, you brought it up, I just thought I'd go along for the ride....

You DO welcome my opinions, dontcha, Lashie?

Until you showed up, everyone was civil.

Typical for you.


Oh, heywaitaminute - you DO welcome my opinions here.... dontcha, Lash dear?
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Aug, 2006 06:19 am
Until you showed up, everyone was civil.

Typical for you.

When you can't find some hidden, negative meaning, it's always good to at least consider the literal meaning.
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Lash
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Aug, 2006 06:26 am
Dookiestix wrote:
As the term in question is offensive to an entire cross-section of society (predominantly African Americans), I fail to understand what the problem is other than the traditional whining from rightwingers that we're too PC.
People knew he didn't refer to blacks or any person. They pretended to be offended. There was no offense in that statement.
I guess one cannot be persecuted for using the "N' word either. Unless you're White, of course.
Nigger has no other meaning but offense. Tarbaby isn't even widely known as possibly offensive. These two words aren't in the same universe.
Our complex history is what eludes those who attempt to simplify the meaning behind an entrenched ideological term. It is a segregated culture (conservative white America) which isolates itself from understanding the weight of this issue.
There are serious issues that impact race relations, and the black community. Tarbaby isn't one of them.. Actually, the whining about the use of tarbaby, IMO, was designed to further divide people racially. If he'd called someone a tarbaby, I'd agree with the people who took offense.

Anyway-- I'm not arguing with you. I was trying to show you a different way of thinking about this issue.

I undersatand yours, and I believe it's rooted in historical penance for mistreatment of a race of people. So, I believe your motive is positive--I just think your method is empty.
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SierraSong
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Aug, 2006 09:38 am
Dookiestix wrote:
Our complex history is what eludes those who attempt to simplify the meaning behind an entrenched ideological term. It is a segregated culture (conservative white America) which isolates itself from understanding the weight of this issue.


http://sayanythingblog.com/images/huffpostasswipes.jpg

Sure it is. Rolling Eyes
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Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Aug, 2006 09:58 am
Lash wrote:
Dookiestix wrote:
As the term in question is offensive to an entire cross-section of society (predominantly African Americans), I fail to understand what the problem is other than the traditional whining from rightwingers that we're too PC.
People knew he didn't refer to blacks or any person. They pretended to be offended. There was no offense in that statement.
I guess one cannot be persecuted for using the "N' word either. Unless you're White, of course.
Nigger has no other meaning but offense. Tarbaby isn't even widely known as possibly offensive. These two words aren't in the same universe.
Our complex history is what eludes those who attempt to simplify the meaning behind an entrenched ideological term. It is a segregated culture (conservative white America) which isolates itself from understanding the weight of this issue.
There are serious issues that impact race relations, and the black community. Tarbaby isn't one of them.. Actually, the whining about the use of tarbaby, IMO, was designed to further divide people racially. If he'd called someone a tarbaby, I'd agree with the people who took offense.

Anyway-- I'm not arguing with you. I was trying to show you a different way of thinking about this issue.

I undersatand yours, and I believe it's rooted in historical penance for mistreatment of a race of people. So, I believe your motive is positive--I just think your method is empty.

The term offends me as much as it offends my African American friends. It is the subtlety of the term which eludes you, yet certainly rings clear for many others. And whereas the "N" word is clearly offensive to you, there is a culture within the African American community that has made that word an intrinsic part of their everyday vernacular. This has nothing to do with penance; that is a false assumption. It has to do with the underlying social evolution of our society because of our history of slavery in this country, and its complicated results which we must all deal with today.

We as a nation are divided enough when it comes to race. We have institutionalized bigotry in all of it's subtlest of terms to the point where individuals such as yourself fail to recognize it, and instead insist that the term in question is an issue, when it is much more than that. Assuming that the horrors of slavery could be washed away so easily, then we wouldn't be in this predicament when it comes to terminology that is offensive. But there is an obvious racist element within the Republican party, and this is why the term in question has primarily been uttered by those on the RIGHT, not the left. The proud "white" history of the South to some resembles nothing but the murderous past to others. Why else would there have been such an uproar when some were insisting on flying the confederate flag at government institutions in the South.

Why do you think the Republican party cannot attract more African American voters? I'll tell you, because it's really quite simple; the Republican party still caters to their racist constituents. They float these terms out there to show that they are still on their side, and it is subtle, for that is the state of insititutionalized bigotry today. Why do you think not a single African American Republican is currently in Congress?

As long as idiots like Tony Snow and others on the Right continue to throw these terms out as a subtle nod to their racist elements of the GOP, the less support the Republican party can expect from the African American community. Believe or not, the African American community is smart enough to know this. Add to that voter disenfranchisement, Hurricane Katrina, the hypocrisy from the GOP when it comes to the minimum wage, and many other enforced disparities by the ruling party in Washington, and you have ample reasons for why the GOP cannot be trusted when it comes to the best interests of the African American community.

In summary, the baggage still exists behind some of these terms. Seeing our public officials/presidential spokesmen utter these phrases does FAR more in dividing this country then the mere outrage by some when they hear it.
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Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Aug, 2006 10:02 am
Thanx, Sierrasong, for proving my point brilliantly.

Rolling Eyes
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