Political Correctness: Make a Judgment

He's a little militant for me, but I've read one of his books.

0 Replies

Re Rosie: immediately apologized? Without prompting from the offended? Hmmm I wonder.

Quote:

For Immediate Release
December 10, 2006
Contact: John Choe, 646-296-1455
Sent via Internet

*** Statement ***

******************************
BARBARA WALTERS MUST HOLD ROSIE O'DONNELL ACCOUNTABLE FOR REMARKS ON
ABC'S "THE VIEW"
******************************
CITY HALL, NY - New York City Council Member John C. Liu released the
following letter in response to questions regarding remarks made by
Rosie O'Donnell on "The View," which is owned, produced and hosted by
Barbara Walters, an award-winning journalist. Ms. O'Donnell's remarks
on "The View" were produced and broadcast by the American Broadcast
Company on September 7, 2006.

The text of CM Liu's letter is attached below.

---
December 9, 2006

Barbara Walters
Producer, "The View"
American Broadcasting Company
320 West 66th Street
New York, NY 10023

RE: Rosie O'Donnell's Remarks on "The View"

Dear Ms. Walters:

Asian Americans across the country are very offended by remarks made
by Rosie O'Donnell this past week on your program "The View." Her
caricature of the Chinese language hits a raw nerve in our community.
For your information, a clip of the relevant December 7, 2006 program
is available at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuTspbPmV_g.

As a well-traveled and experienced journalist who has gained respect
from many people around the world, you better than anyone should know
that these types of derogatory remarks have consequences beyond the
stupidity of the person who made them. Yet, you more than anyone
stands to profit handsomely from the pumped-up ratings generated by
this type of controversy.

I do not believe the production and broadcast of these remarks
reflects the high standards of excellence held by you or the American
Broadcasting Company. But, what will you do to hold yourself and
those who host the program accountable for such offensive remarks? I
and the many Asian Americans offended by "The View" look forward to
your response.

Sincerely,

John C. Liu
Council Member

http://www.r8ny.com/node/9581

0 Replies

snood wrote:

Well, I know of some people who would tell you that being african-american doesn't grant you any special insight or perspective or voice about issues specifically involving african americans. I had someone on this forum tell me that being an african american man gave me no better idea about how african american men are regarded in america. Still trips me out to this day...

Lash wrote:

If all blacks had exactly the same opinion, it would be valid.

This incredible exchange, where a white woman is telling a black man that she can speak with as much authority for the black viewpoint as he can, reminds me of an actual conversation I had a long time ago in a bar.

We were still in college. Five or six of us were all settled in and round a booth, and one of the women started talking about the pain of childbirth.

"It's not that painful", one of the guys said authoritatively.

"Howard, what do you mean it's not painful? Of course it's painful, how would you know?"

With a straight face and complete seriousness, Howard said, "Like my mother said, if it really hurt that much, women wouldn't have children." He was utterly serious.

One of the women told him that she wasn't in the mood for his crap, and a brouhaha ensured.

To this day, I always think of Howard's comments as the perfect example of a person embarrassing themselves beyond repair. I really didn't think I could find an example that came close-until I read Lash's remarks.

Yet I find several posters-all white-agreeing with this Lash individual. And there is the disturbing possiblility that some of them might be actually sober.

How can anyone who grew up in America even entertain the possibilitly that if you are born black in America, your life experiences will in any way be comparable to those of a white person? How can anyone ignore the the innumerable insults, putdowns and patterns of exclusion which, until 20 years or so ago, were considered normal? Those things still exist today, of course, but they now are increasingly considered unacceptable, and are increasingly likely to get the practitioners in trouble. Like fired.

Let's face it. If a black person walked into a room full of white people even into the 1980's, he would get looks. Many people would start giggling and make motions which would clearly indicate they found his presence a matter of amusement. Does anyone seriously think black people didn't notice these looks, or expect to get them when they first came in? Does anyone truly think black people did not hear or sense the jokes or comments being made, even when some effort was made to conceal them? Does anyone think it is even possible for people who have gone through this to NOT forge a bond and understanding with the others who have experienced these things?

Yet we have a whole pack of white people on this forum seriously maintaining just that. They feel that having lived through and experienced these things in the past, and living through them to a mercifully reduced amount now, in no way entitles the black person to maintain he has an insight into black issues which white people do not have. Indeed, these white people believe they don't even have to try particularly hard to understand these things-this understanding supposedly comes to them naturally.

Has anyone noticed that despite having well known and popular black posters on A2K, Snood is the only one who posts on any racial issues? We have just witnesses a perfect example why. How is any conversation possible between blacks and whites on racial issues possible if the white posters are going to adopt such a comically arrogant stance?

I really can't believe Snood is still posting on this forum. Not after this. Snood should check his family ancestry-no question Job is there.

0 Replies

How do you get your head that far up Snood's a$$ without pulling it out of your own? Rolling Eyes

(Leave the site over it... Laughing

get a grip man.)

0 Replies

Bill:

I realize that bringing the reality of race relations into this conversation would offend you, but I just had to chance it.

When you get done snorting contempt, care to find something in my post which isn't true? Don't tell me, let me guess. You grew up in a wonderful little town where people of all races were treated as valuable members of the community, and you just can't understand what all the damn fuss is about.

0 Replies

No need for the derision really from either side. I asked for O'Bill and KW to comment (and others who haven't gotten to it yet).

My belief that black men generally have better insight into, and empathy for how black men are regarded (treated, received, insert verb of utility) in america than do their white counterparts remains unchanged.

As for KW's comment about 'the patience of Job' - I have a small confession...

I realized not too long ago that A2K and the people on it with whom I regularly participate in discussion had grown to hold a sort of special place in my life. I do get mad at some of the stuff that gets written, but besides sometimes just being outraged, disgusted or insulted I also have been inspired, touched, shocked, enlightened, comforted, amused, fascinated and probably other things by what goes down in this weird little cyberspace. I have often tried to imagine what meeting many of you would be like - not just those with whom I feel kinship, but also those with whom I seem to share only antipathy.

I have (it was a sharp observation, IMO) noticed that I seem to be the only person of color who will discuss matters of race here regularly. This has gotten me accused of race-baiting, playing the race card, being race-obsessed, being an angry bitter person, hating everybody, and a few other even less palatable things. I happen to think its simply because I have a genuine interest in matters of race, and don't get the opportunity elsewhere. Thanks for your patience with me.

But in any case, let's don't, if we can help it, let this particular thread and this particular point of contention plant too many bitter seeds or drive too many angry nails. This forum is a good thing, I intend to discuss race on it whenever I am so moved, and I ain't goin anywhere.

0 Replies

OCCOM BILL wrote:

Your feigned surprise that he still posts here capped off a mind numbingly boring post that was clearly mostly written to make you look good to you.

No, it's actual surprise. But perhaps Bill would like to offer an explanation of his own as to why we have popular black posters on A2K but Snood is the only one who discusses racial matters here.

And you have to admit, Snood really does get knocked around pretty bad here.

Allow me to illustrate. We have two conservative posters here who steadfastly maintain that they have black friends with whom they have formed such close personal, trusting relationships that they regularly use the N-word to them and it is perfectly all right. No, really.

Now, imagine if you invited a black friend to a gathering where these two are there, and during the conversation Lash starts telling everyone about her friends whom she calls N-word all the time, and they call her a honky cracker back, and everyone just has a wonderful, loving time because that is just the normal teasing you get between people who have grown close in mutual respect and understanding.

And then Foxfyre chimes in about the business colleague who she calls N-word in the middle of office banter, the black colleague answers back, and then they both go to have coffee.

Suppose after hearing this, your friend stands up and says, "I'm not listening to this crap. I came here to say hello and talk to some people here, and instead I get this lying garbage. If this is your idea of people I should meet, Bill, do me a favor. The next time you walk past me at work, don't bother saying hello. Because after this, you and I have NOTHING to say to each other." Then he walks out.

Ask yourself-who has the problem here? The black friend who walked out, or the white people who told him those stories? Normally that question would be merely rhetorical, but after reading the bunch on this thread, I frankly don't know what answers I'll get.

Care to answer, Bill? And while you are at it, please give us your thoughts as to why, of all the black posters on A2K, only Snood choses to participate in discussions about racial topics.

0 Replies

kelticwizard wrote:

This incredible exchange, where a white woman is telling a black man that she can speak with as much authority for the black viewpoint as he can . . .

We had pages and pages of discussion of that remark by Snood, and no one descended to the level of this tripe, although the Mountie inferentially suggested it.

Lash said nothing which remotely resembled a claim that she can speak to a black viewpoint with more authority than Snood. The remark questions whether or not Snood can speak for all all black people.

You should try no to type immediately after your knee starts jerking . . . give your brain some time to engage.

0 Replies

Thanks again.

Keltic sees what he wants to see.

I care about snood.

We disagree about politics.

I'd hate for him to go anywhere.

Keltic is free to leave, though...

LOL

0 Replies

For anyone that didn't pick up on it--this isn't about who knows blackness more--me or snood, for Bob's sake--

It's about applying snood's thesis to all blacks and all women---key word being "all"...

and it doesn't work.

It's not a universally true statement that being a member of a group somehow imbues that member with superior knowledge of being a member of that group.

There are anomalies on the outside and the inside of those groups that step over color/gender barriers.

And, it seems like a racist, sexist thing to say--actually.

If we can't do "lumpings" with negative connotations--doesn't it have to hold true that you can't do "lumpings" with positive connotations? C'Mon! Lumping is lumping.

0 Replies

Foxfyre wrote:

Just one small point - KW didn't post here because he was "stalking" anyone. I asked him to post here. I PM'ed him and asked him to.

0 Replies

Thanks for that response, snood.

I was already wondering how Foxfyre get that idea.

0 Replies

I had said that earlier in the thread - that I'd asked several people to participate. guess Foxfyre didn't read that post...

0 Replies

snood wrote:

No need for the derision really from either side. I asked for O'Bill and KW to comment (and others who haven't gotten to it yet).

No worries... and don't hold yourself accountable. KW and I mixed it up recently in a debate (if you can believe it) over whether or not crack heads stay up late ( Laughing

) and I would imagine he's still smarting from the laughter that ensued. (Still good on you, KW, to not know better)

You are by no means the only person who values the relationships developed on A2K, friend and foe alike. I can't tell you how touched I was when the Chicago crew drove to Milwaukee to see me off to Florida. Political and ideological agreement or lack thereof has NOTHING to do with it.

snood wrote:

I have (it was a sharp observation, IMO) noticed that I seem to be the only person of color who will discuss matters of race here regularly. This has gotten me accused of race-baiting, playing the race card, being race-obsessed, being an angry bitter person, hating everybody, and a few other even less palatable things. I happen to think its simply because I have a genuine interest in matters of race, and don't get the opportunity elsewhere. Thanks for your patience with me.

No thanks necessary, as we all gain from the interaction. As you know; I do think you're more fixated on race than most, but I appreciate it. I further believe you'd get little from it; if we all put on slippers and tip toed through like KW would have us do.

snood wrote:

But in any case, let's don't, if we can help it, let this particular thread and this particular point of contention plant too many bitter seeds or drive too many angry nails. This forum is a good thing, I intend to discuss race on it whenever I am so moved, and I ain't goin anywhere.

No worries. That's precisely what I expect and I neither hold grudges over silly sh!t nor lose sleep worrying about those who do.

kelticwizard wrote:

OCCOM BILL wrote:
Your feigned surprise that he still posts here capped off a mind numbingly boring post that was clearly mostly written to make you look good to you.

No, it's actual surprise. But perhaps Bill would like to offer an explanation of his own as to why we have popular black posters on A2K but Snood is the only one who discusses racial matters here.

A. that's not true. I've seen more than a few black posters opine on race related subjects. B. Snood seems to be the most interested in doing so... and since it's usually a taboo subject; I very much appreciate his interest. C. I wouldn't presume to know why other individuals have less interest in doing so, let alone attempt to answer on their behalf.

kelticwizard wrote:

And you have to admit, Snood really does get knocked around pretty bad here.

For sure... but not because he's black. Anyone willing to dive head first into a controversial subject is going to take some licks. Your hyper-sensitivity just isn't tuned in to notice the bashing (like your own for instance) of anyone who opines without your hyper-sensitivity. Snood can take care of himself... and when he faces actual racism I'd wager he knows damn well Lash, Set or I will likely be along to stand shoulder to shoulder with him.

I won't be answering your imaginary meet up, because I don't believe in fairytales. I neither have reason to doubt Fox and Lash have friends with whom lines get crossed in playful banter, nor that each would have the good sense to keep it within their cliques. Should either fail to do so; I'd probably write it off more on the account of stupidity than racism.

And in your example; both are wrong. Anyone who declares they're never going to speak to me again because they were insulted by somone else's asinine banter has got issues of his own. That would be a pretty foolish way to misdirect blame.

kelticwizard wrote:

Care to answer, Bill? And while you are at it, please give us your thoughts as to why, of all the black posters on A2K, only Snood choses to participate in discussions about racial topics.

As I said; this isn't true. He just likes it the most... and frankly I like him more for it.

0 Replies

snood wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:

Just one small point - KW didn't post here because he was "stalking" anyone. I asked him to post here. I PM'ed him and asked him to.

I presume you told him what to say too? And did you warn him that it was dangerous to PM any private correspondence to you?

Regardless, it doesn't change the fact that KW posted garbage and has done so now on several threads over a period of time. That he chose to insert it here too qualifies as stalking.

0 Replies

I agree with Fox about Keltic.
Old recycled vitriol with no substance.

I also loved Bill's post.

And, snood is knocked around alot because he knocks around alot.
I think it's a distinct show of how we feel about him that we don't walk around on eggshells because he's black. We treat him just as shitty as we do the pale homies.

LOL

Political Correctness: Make a Judgment

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know