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It's Time to Stand Against Israel

 
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jul, 2006 07:20 pm
oralloy wrote:

The kingdom of the Jews was populated primarily by Jews.


This is correct. This does not negate the fact that, in reality, there were a diverse group of peoples in "the Jerusalem area" since ancient times.

Quote:
The fact that Jews who were driven from their homelands ended up interbreeding with other races does not change the fact that they are Jewish.


The fact that Ashkenazim are a people of mixed ethnicity, originating in Eastern and Central Europe negates any ethnological claim to a "homeland" in Palestine.

Quote:
And now that they have reclaimed their rightful homeland, don't expect to see them driven out again without a nuclear war that will cost a hundred million Muslim lives.


I expect to see, not the driving out of Jews from Israel/Palestine, but the dissolution of the ethnocetrically bigoted and discriminatory state of Israel in favor of a more egalitarian state that incorporates Palestine, and that takes the welfare and well being of all of its inhabitants into consideration.

In light of the fact that the goyish population in Israel will overtake the Jewish population there in a few generations, the Jewish Israelis would be wise to begin to effect measures dismantling the bigoted state in favor of one that insures the equal treatment under the law of all of Israel's citizens lest it become a radicalized Islamist state that might discriminate against and oppress its non-Islamic population.

But I don't think Jewish Israelis are looking far enough into the future right now.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  0  
Reply Mon 24 Jul, 2006 07:46 pm
InfraBlue wrote:

I expect to see, not the driving out of Jews from Israel/Palestine, but the dissolution of the ethnocetrically bigoted and discriminatory state of Israel in favor of a more egalitarian state that incorporates Palestine, and that takes the welfare and well being of all of its inhabitants into consideration.

In light of the fact that the goyish population in Israel will overtake the Jewish population there in a few generations....


Being a goy and being a slammite are not he same thing. There's a very simple solution to the idea of having non jews live in harmony in Israel, i.e. allow the Christian arabs to remain and heave the slammites.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Mon 24 Jul, 2006 09:14 pm
revel wrote:
oralloy wrote:
yitwail wrote:
oralloy wrote:
And if they don't want Israel to take stern measures to prevent them from killing Israeli civilians, then they shouldn't be trying to kill Israeli civilians.


that's to be expected. what's regrettable is hundreds of civilians, not terrorists, being killed in Lebanon because 2 soldiers were abducted.


Bad things happen to countries that commit acts of war against Israel.


It wasn't a country but a rebel Islamic militant group.


Nonetheless, they started a war with Israel.



revel wrote:
Leveling a whole a country and killing and wounding hundreds of innocent civilians is a little overkill for kidnapping merely two Israeli soldiers.


No, it is typical for such things to happen in wartime.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Mon 24 Jul, 2006 09:22 pm
InfraBlue wrote:
oralloy wrote:
The kingdom of the Jews was populated primarily by Jews.


This is correct. This does not negate the fact that, in reality, there were a diverse group of peoples in "the Jerusalem area" since ancient times.


Primarily Jews.



InfraBlue wrote:
oralloy wrote:
The fact that Jews who were driven from their homelands ended up interbreeding with other races does not change the fact that they are Jewish.


The fact that Ashkenazim are a people of mixed ethnicity, originating in Eastern and Central Europe negates any ethnological claim to a "homeland" in Palestine.


No it doesn't.



InfraBlue wrote:
oralloy wrote:
And now that they have reclaimed their rightful homeland, don't expect to see them driven out again without a nuclear war that will cost a hundred million Muslim lives.


I expect to see, not the driving out of Jews from Israel/Palestine, but the dissolution of the ethnocetrically bigoted and discriminatory state of Israel


Such an act would be preceded by the extermination, via nuclear weapons, of a hundred million (or more) Muslims.

And rightly so.
0 Replies
 
candidone1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jul, 2006 10:03 pm
Baldimo....I don't come here much, but, in spite of out ideological differences, I'm glad to hear that you'rte still able to only hear the shellings, and not feel them.

Hope you have a safe return.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  0  
Reply Mon 24 Jul, 2006 10:25 pm
The Sweet Desert wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
The Palestinians firebomb a school bus, and the Israelis undertake a punitive military response, as anyone would, never deliberately trying to kill civilians. Your posts on A2K signify only that you're an anti-semite.


Anti-Semite, nah not again!!

Permit me to ask you a question and I'd appreciate your reply:
Aren't both parties Semitic!?

Thanks in advance Smile

I'm not surprised that you run from the substance of my point to criticize an irrelevant technicality. Now, how about addressing my actual point above, and I'd appreciate your reply.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  0  
Reply Mon 24 Jul, 2006 10:48 pm
InfraBlue wrote:

I expect to see, not the driving out of Jews from Israel/Palestine, but the dissolution of the ethnocetrically bigoted and discriminatory state of Israel in favor of a more egalitarian state that incorporates Palestine, and that takes the welfare and well being of all of its inhabitants into consideration.....


Here's another thing which you are totally overlooking.

You make it sound as if democracy in and of itself were some sort of an ideal, rather than a means to an end.

There are problems with democracy which have to be overcome in order for it to work. In particular, democracy is a totally reasonable system for a fairly homogeneous group of people with shared values and ideals to govern themselves, BUT IT IS NOT A REASONABLE SYSTEM FOR SHARING POWER BETWEEN TWO OR MORE GROUPS OF PEOPLE WITH NOTHING IN COMMON, PARTICULARLY IF THEY HATE EACHOTHER.

The slammite penchant for trying to "out-baby" everybody else and swamp other peoples and countries with demographics is well known. Only somebody in deep denial would fault a nation like Israel for refusing to let that happen to themselves.

Israel was set up as a Jewish state because of the six to ten million Jews who died in WW-II, and because of the fact that they died not from inability to get OUT of Germany or other countries under the sway of the third reich, BUT BECAUSE THEY COULD NOT GET INTO ANY OTHER COUNTRY ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH, INCLUDING THE UNITED STATES, and that was llargely because the United States was in the throes of a depression which was in the process of being made worse by demokkkrat programs at the time. Asked about allowing Jews to settle in the northwest corner of their island which is populated mainly by poisonous serpents and estuarian crocodiles, the Australians replied "We have no racial problems in Australia, and we've no intentions of importing any."

Jews absolutely had to have a homeland after WW-II, and their ancestral home in Israel made as much sense as anything else. The idea that they are undemocratic or anti-democratic for wishing to keep their tiny slice of land is idiotic in the extreme, and a simple glance at any map shows the assininity of such a view.

You have this collosal swath of territory stretching from the wall of China to the west coast of Africa and stretching for tens of degrees of lattitude up and down called the slammite world,
and a tiny sliver of land called Israel which you have to know precisely where to look for to even find, and we hear this unrelenting crybaby act for sixty stinking years over the tiny sliver.

I regard I-slam and slammism as a mental abberation which is clearly worse than any form of drug abuse. I'd be totally in favor of banning the practice of I-slam, J-slam, K-slam, and any other form of slammism from this entire planet at the soonest possible date.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jul, 2006 10:50 pm
oralloy wrote:
No it doesn't.


Say you and the ethnocentrists you champion.


Quote:
Such an act would be preceded by the extermination, via nuclear weapons, of a hundred million (or more) Muslims.


You sure do have a hard on for nuclear annihilation, don't you?


Quote:
And rightly so.


Given the scenario that the powers that be in Israel would do what's expected and voluntarily dissolve the bigoted ethnocentric state in favor of an egalitarian one, how would nuclear annihilation of a hundred million, or more, Muslims be "rightly so"?
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Jul, 2006 01:50 am
gunga wrote:
You make it sound as if democracy in and of itself were some sort of an ideal, rather than a means to an end.


To what ends is democracy a means?

Quote:
There are problems with democracy which have to be overcome in order for it to work. In particular, democracy is a totally reasonable system for a fairly homogeneous group of people with shared values and ideals to govern themselves, BUT IT IS NOT A REASONABLE SYSTEM FOR SHARING POWER BETWEEN TWO OR MORE GROUPS OF PEOPLE WITH NOTHING IN COMMON, PARTICULARLY IF THEY HATE EACHOTHER.


Power sharing is the only answer to the hatred that an imbalance of power has created. Of course, trying to argue this point to a hater is like trying to argue the merits of desegregation to the Ku Klux Klan.

Quote:
Israel was set up as a Jewish state because of the six to ten million Jews who died in WW-II


The establishment of the ethnocentric Jewish state on a pre-populated land as a response to the Holocaust, which itself was the ultimate expression of ethnocentrism, is a contradiction and a blatant hypocrisy.

Quote:
THEY COULD NOT GET INTO ANY OTHER COUNTRY ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH, INCLUDING THE UNITED STATES


This is not true. Many countries took in Jewish refugees, Austrailia notwithstanding. What's ironic is that the Zionist leadership resisted and even thwarted efforts for Ashkenazi immigration to anywhere but Palestine.

Quote:
Jews absolutely had to have a homeland after WW-II, and their ancestral home in Israel made as much sense as anything else.


The Jews of Eastern and Central Europe, the Ashkenazim, had a homeland, it was Eastern and Central Europe. If a homeland were to be created on their behalf, then logically it should have been created there. But these rationalizations for an ethnocentric state, i.e. a Jewish state, are contradictory and hypocritical to grievances against ethnocentric states, e.g. Nazi Germany.

Quote:
The idea that they are undemocratic or anti-democratic for wishing to keep their tiny slice of land is idiotic in the extreme, and a simple glance at any map shows the assininity of such a view.


The response to "the idea that they are undemocratic or anti-democratic for wishing to keep their tiny slice of land" is a straw-man argument since no one has made the claim that "they are undemocratic or anti-democratic for wishing to keep their tiny slice of land." The idea that simply glancing at any map can demonstrate a state to be democratic is plainly stupid.

A glance at a map is irrelevant to the fact that the state of Israel is ethnocentric, bigoted and discriminatory to its citizens that aren't Jews.

Quote:
You have this collosal swath of territory stretching from the wall of China to the west coast of Africa and stretching for tens of degrees of lattitude up and down called the slammite world,
and a tiny sliver of land called Israel which you have to know precisely where to look for to even find, and we hear this unrelenting crybaby act for sixty stinking years over the tiny sliver.

I regard I-slam and slammism as a mental abberation which is clearly worse than any form of drug abuse. I'd be totally in favor of banning the practice of I-slam, J-slam, K-slam, and any other form of slammism from this entire planet at the soonest possible date.


Arguing the merits of egalitarianism is lost on raving haters, though.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Tue 25 Jul, 2006 02:35 am
InfraBlue wrote:
oralloy wrote:
Such an act would be preceded by the extermination, via nuclear weapons, of a hundred million (or more) Muslims.


You sure do have a hard on for nuclear annihilation, don't you?


It has its place.



InfraBlue wrote:
oralloy wrote:
And rightly so.


Given the scenario that the powers that be in Israel would do what's expected and voluntarily dissolve the bigoted ethnocentric state in favor of an egalitarian one, how would nuclear annihilation of a hundred million, or more, Muslims be "rightly so"?


Your scenario will never happen. Israel is not going to voluntarily destroy itself.

And any move to destroy Israel involuntarily, if successful, will see the nuclear annihilation of Israel's enemies as Israel's last act.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  0  
Reply Tue 25 Jul, 2006 06:07 am
InfraBlue wrote:

Power sharing is the only answer to the hatred that an imbalance of power has created. Of course, trying to argue this point to a hater is like trying to argue the merits of desegregation to the Ku Klux Klan.


What about when I buy or build a house and insist that only myself, my own family, and my two cats can live in it? Does that make me a racist or a klansman?

What happens when some guy with fifteen kids moves into a smaller house next door, and then, ten years later when he has 25 kids, tries to insist that I share my house with his family and I still refuse?

"PRE-SETTLED" you say?? By what? Snakes and spiders??

The major fact of the matter is that no more than one or two percent of slammites living in Israel, gaza, or the west bank have any history of living in the region going back more than about a hundred years. Mark Twain and other travellers just slightly more than a hundred years ago described the holy land as empty and deserted, basically a ghost town which was home to about the same number of people who lived in Dodge City after it became a ghost town.

The reality is that the Zionists came in and did all the heavy liftingt to make the area habitable, and then the slammites started piling in looking for jobs and doing their usual thing of trying to swamp the region with demographics and usurp it.

Zionists clearly did not do all that heavy lifting for the benefit of slammite usurpers, and I fail to see racism or zenophobia in that. In fact, when I look at the same process being played out in places like Kosovo, southern Serbia, Macedonia, and several countries in Europe in which slammites are establishing large no-go areas for Christians and whites, my advice to them has to be HEAVE THE WRETCHED ****ERS, BEFORE IT IS TOO LATE.

Likewise with the slammite penchant for building mosques overtop of everybody elses churches, synagogues, and holy sites including King David's Temple (i.e. the "al-aksa mosque").

My advice to Israel is to tear that thing down to the last stone, and pile the debris up in a heap near the Saudi border and tell the Saudis they can retrieve it if they are interested.
0 Replies
 
blueflame1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Jul, 2006 08:14 am
Firepower versus brainpower

By Yoel Marcus

Two weeks after Israel set out to defeat Hezbollah, its military achievements are pretty limited. A country that stood up to seven Arab nations in the War of Independence, a war of the "few against the many," with an army that pulverized the invading forces of three Arab nations in the span of six days, is now facing an embarrassing role reversal: a war of the "many against the few" in which Israel is on the floorboards.

Who would have believed that a guerrilla organization with a few hundred regular fighters, something like a brigade and a half, could paralyze half a country, firing off hundreds of missiles every day? A total of 2,200 by Sunday morning, says the defense minister. Who would have believed that cities like Safed, Acre, Nahariya, Tiberias and especially Haifa, the capital of the North, would wake up every morning to the sound of sirens and deadly rocket fire that would turn tens of thousands of people into refugees and shut down life in a large part of the country? And that's even before Hezbollah has tried to use its long-range missiles on Tel Aviv.

Who would have believed that the Israel Defense Forces, the army that is prepared for large-scale wars, that Iran fears will attack its nuclear facilities, that can drop 23 tons of bombs in a single night, is incapable of stopping Hezbollah's missile fire? How is that as soon as the IDF announces Hezbollah's TV station has been bombed, Hassan Nasrallah pops up in blooming health to continue his taunts against us?

Israel went to war with the goal of wiping out Hezbollah, a hostile militia operating on its border, in response to provocation and the kidnapping of soldiers made possible by the sluggishness and routine that has become widespread in the IDF in recent months. It did so with international backing, with President Bush leading the pack, and the support of most Israeli citizens.

Bush and the public assumed that the army knew what it was doing, and that Israel, with its superiority in manpower, weaponry and technology, would be able to put an end to Hezbollah as a menace to Israel. Little by little, however, a worrying picture has begun to emerge: Instead of an army that is small but smart, we are catching glimpses of an army that is big, rich and dumb.

Take the bizarre appearances of IDF top brass on television: The commander of the Home Front, who stands there handing out high marks to the Israeli public, seemingly unaware that the moment people sense the army is not functioning, they will take to their heels - not only leaving their homes but fleeing the country, following tens of thousands of tourists who have already hightailed it out of here. The chief of staff, who had to say that "we're going to turn Lebanon back into what it was 20 years ago," and now threatens to blow up a 10-floor building for every missile. The district commander who declares: "We don't do body counts in the middle of a war," an improved version of the comment of Benny Gantz, who was a brigadier general in 2001: "When you chop down trees, splinters fly," totally forgetting that the splinters are human beings.

We have a chief of staff who looks like he gets up every morning and agonizes over what to wear - his blue uniform or his khakis. A chief of staff who delivers state-of-the-union addresses that should be the job of the prime minister, and spends whole days touring with Channel 2 correspondent Ronny Daniel. In his observations to the media, Brigadier General (res.) Rafi Noy is right when he says that Hezbollah, with its hidden arsenals, continues to enjoy the upper hand, while the mighty IDF still has far to go to knock it out of commission.

Unlike some of my colleagues, I believe that Israel is fighting a no-choice war that we must do everything possible to win. Air strikes, ground operations - whatever it takes so that Hezbollah, exhausted and beaten, pulls back and a multinational force is deployed along the international border together with the Lebanese Army, in keeping with Security Council Resolution 1559.

If Hezbollah does not cooperate with a UN-mediated agreement stipulating that it give up its heavy weapons, and refuses to stay north of the Litani River, the IDF will have no choice but to keep up the attacks and pound away at Hezbollah, crushing it outpost by outpost. The rules of the game dictated by Hezbollah are going to have to change. A status quo ante is out of the question.

The conflict with Hezbollah cannot be allowed to deteriorate into a war of attrition. It must not be expanded beyond its stated goals. And the Israeli public must not be overly put to the test, lest the "wonderful home front" blow up in the government's face.

The trouble is that we don't have all the time in the world. Condeleezza Rice is on her way. She will shuttle back and forth, back and forth, until the moment comes for a cease-fire agreement. We can only hope that the army reverts to its old self and has the wisdom and good sense to know what to do and when to do it, to produce the desired outcome.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/742261.html
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Tue 25 Jul, 2006 12:21 pm
gungasnake wrote:
(i.e. the "al-aksa mosque").

My advice to Israel is to tear that thing down to the last stone, and pile the debris up in a heap near the Saudi border and tell the Saudis they can retrieve it if they are interested.


I have mixed feelings on that.

The buildings are historically significant. I am sure they could just slaughter all the Muslims on the Temple Mount and then convert the mosques into synagogues.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  0  
Reply Tue 25 Jul, 2006 04:35 pm
oralloy wrote:
gungasnake wrote:
(i.e. the "al-aksa mosque").

My advice to Israel is to tear that thing down to the last stone, and pile the debris up in a heap near the Saudi border and tell the Saudis they can retrieve it if they are interested.


I have mixed feelings on that.

The buildings are historically significant. I am sure they could just slaughter all the Muslims on the Temple Mount and then convert the mosques into synagogues.


I wasn't really trying to be mean-spirited about the thing. If I wanted to do that I'd advise the Israelis to dismantle the thing, reconstruct it near the Saudi border, and make a hog barn out of it, although it might be too hot to raise hogs in that region. If that's the case they could use it to house Javelinas (collared pecaries)...
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Tue 25 Jul, 2006 04:45 pm
oralloy wrote:


The deliberate killing of civilians by covert operatives is not "political activism". It is terrorism.


This is exactly the situation that the USA has been in in Nicaragua, El Salvador, Vietnam, Chile, Venezuala, etc etc etc and yet we never hear anything from you about these terrorist operations, Oralboy. Please show aless hypocrisy and more evenhandedness.

This ain't simply a contest of homeboys. If you act like gang members , all you can expect is more gang warfare.
0 Replies
 
paull
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Jul, 2006 09:56 pm
Quote:
This is exactly the situation that the USA has been in in Nicaragua, El Salvador, Vietnam, Chile, Venezuala, etc etc etc and yet we never hear anything from you about these terrorist operations



I know this might strain your heart JTT, but would a little proof of the alleged actions by the USA, other than allegations from the USUAL sources, be too much? I am sure you have your ear glued to the same "news" sources all day, and don't get any variety, but some of us want more than just heaped on choir preaching.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Wed 26 Jul, 2006 01:08 am
gunga wrote:
What about when I buy or build a house and insist that only myself, my own family, and my two cats can live in it? Does that make me a racist or a klansman?

What happens when some guy with fifteen kids moves into a smaller house next door, and then, ten years later when he has 25 kids, tries to insist that I share my house with his family and I still refuse?


Um, I have no idea what you are getting at by this obtuse analogy.

Quote:
The major fact of the matter is that no more than one or two percent of slammites living in Israel, gaza, or the west bank have any history of living in the region going back more than about a hundred years. Mark Twain and other travellers just slightly more than a hundred years ago described the holy land as empty and deserted, basically a ghost town which was home to about the same number of people who lived in Dodge City after it became a ghost town.


The truth of the matter is that Mark Twain's commentaries aren't anything but anecdotes about his travels. To think that they serve any kind of demographic study is risibly stupid. In his travel memoirs "The Innocents Abroad" he wasn't only referring to Palestine as a barren and desolate desert, but included Greece, Lebanon and Syria as well. These allegations are ridiculous, and needless to say, false.

In a report to Theodor Herzl, the founder of modern political Zionism, written just prior to the Second Zionist Congress, Leo Motzkin, a Russian Ashkenazi who worked closely with Herzl, wrote, "Completely accurate statistics about the number of inhabitants do not presently exist. One must admit that the density of the population does not give the visitor much cause for cheer. In whole stretches throughout the land one constantly comes across large Arab villages, and it is an established fact that the most fertile areas of our country are occupied by Arabs..." (Protocol of the Second Zionist Congress, Pg. 103).

Motzkin referred to Palestine as "our country."

When Herzl himself toured Palestine he was flatly oblivious to the Arabs there. As Ernst Pawel, Herzl's biographer, wrote,"The account of this visionary's journey through both past and future is notable for one conspicuous blind spot. As Amos Elan [writer, critic, New York Review of Books] has pointed out, the trip...took him through at least a dozen Arab villages, and in Jaffa itself, Jews formed only 10 percent--some 3,000--of the total population. Yet not once does he refer to the natives in his notes, nor do they ever seem to figure in his later reflections. In overlooking, in refusing to acknowledge their presence--and hence their humanity--he both followed and reinforced a trend that was to have tragic consequences for Jews and Arabs like."

Quote:
The reality is that the Zionists came in and did all the heavy liftingt to make the area habitable, and then the slammites started piling in looking for jobs and doing their usual thing of trying to swamp the region with demographics and usurp it.


Actually, the reality is that the Zionist came in and employed Arabs to "do the heavy lifting" in making the area habitable.

The Zionists of the first Aliyah had a benign indifference to the pre-existing populations in Palestine. They propagated the propaganda slogan, "A land without a people for a people without a land." In Ernst Pawel's biography of Theododr Herzl, The Labyrinth of Exile: A Life Of Theodor Herzl, he writes, "He never questioned the popular view of colonialism as a mission of mercy that brought the blessings of civilization to stone-age savages...He fully believed that the Palestine Arabs would welcome the Jews with open arms; after all, they only stood to gain from the material and technological progress imported by the Jews."

Herzl was truly a product of his European supremacist culture of the nineteenth century.

Some of the other Zionists were truly concerned for the aspirations of the Arabs in Palestine, however. Zionists like Ahad Ha'am who wrote in his essay, The Truth From the Land of Israel, ""We tend to believe abroad that Palestine is nowadays almost completely deserted, a non-cultivated wilderness, and anyone can come there and buy as much land as his heart desires. But in reality this is not the case. It is difficult to find anywhere in the country Arab land which lies fallow...," and Yitzhak Epstein: ""Among the grave questions raised by the concept of our people's renaissance on its own soil there is one which is more weighty than all of the others put together. This is the question of our relations with the Arabs. This question, on the correct solution of which our own national aspirations depend, has not been forgotten, but rather has remained completely hidden from the Zionists, and its true form found almost no mention in the literature of our movement," and Yosef Luria who wrote, "During all the years of our labor in Palestine we completely forgot that there were Arabs in the country. The Arabs have been 'discovered' only during the past few years. We regarded all European nations as opponents of our settlement, but failed to pay heed to one people--the people residing in this country and attached to it." Verily, there were some Zionists who felt compunction with regard to their incursions, and the plight of the Arabs in Palestine.

The Revisionists would have none of it. It was "conquest of the motherland by force!" and "the Jewish homeland for Jews!"

In the Revisionists the Zionists had their counterpart in the militant nationalism that had infected Europe in the late nineteenth century to the early twentieth.

Allan C. Brownfield writes in his essay, The Myth of Palestine as "A Land Without People,"
"More realistic, perhaps, was the assessment of the militant Zionist Revisionist leader Vladimir "Ze'ev" Jabotinsky, who was sympathetic to the extreme nationalism he saw emerging in Eastern Europe, even on the part of the anti-Semitic Ukrainian nationalist Schevenko, whom he praised for his nationalist spirit, despite "explosions of wild fury against the Poles, the Jews and other neighbors." Jabotinsky was under no illusions about a "land without people," and recognized that, in the long run, Zionism must displace the indigenous inhabitants of Palestine."

Jabotinsky declined the cooperation with the Arabs, in pursuit of a Jewish homeland of, for and by Jews only--in a land already populated with goyim.

Irgun Tsvai Leumi (Irgun) and Lohamei Herut Israel (LEHI) were both terrorist offshoots of the Revisionist Zionist movement, and the Likud party is descended from the Irgun.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  0  
Reply Wed 26 Jul, 2006 11:47 am
http://www.townhall.com/Columnists/MichaelMedved/2006/07/26/does_israel_have_a_right_to_exist_does_the_us


Does Israel have a right to exist? Does the U.S.
By Michael Medved
Wednesday, July 26, 2006


It should come as no surprise that some of the same angry leftists who stridently deny Israel's "right to exist" similarly challenge the claims to nationhood of the United States of America.

After all, the two allied and embattled democracies achieved independence in the same way - the patient settlement of largely desolate and under-populated land, the building of a new civilization virtually from scratch, and a long, bloody fight against determined, sometimes implacable opposition.

In fact, Israel boasts a far stronger "right to exist" than does its American counterpart (or many other nations) because of its ancient claim to the disputed land, and long-standing endorsement by international organizations.

In order to place these realities in proper perspective, it's first necessary to reject some thirty years of wildly irresponsible anti-Israel propaganda. First of all, it's not true in any sense that the modern Jewish State ever supplanted or destroyed an existing nation of "Palestine." From the time of definitive destruction of the ancient Jewish commonwealth in 70 A.D., the land that comprises the current State of Israel never enjoyed independent existence but, rather, passed back and forth among competing world empires-Roman, Byzantine, Arab, Crusader, Mamaluke, Ottoman and British. Over the course of more than 1,800 years, no nation with the name "Palestine" appeared on any maps, anywhere. The distinguished Arab-American historian Philip Hitti, professor at Princeton University, testified to the Anglo American Committee in 1946: �'There is no such thing as �'Palestine' in history, absolutely not."

Mark Twain visited the Holy Land in 1867, shortly before the commencement of modern Jewish resettlement, and described it as "a desolate country whose soil is rich enough, but is given over wholly to weeds�-a silent, mournful expanse… A desolation is here that not even imagination can grace with the pomp of life and action." According to the careful population figures of the Ottoman Empire, in 1882 (at the very beginning of the modern, organized Jewish immigration back to the ancestral home), the total population of land between the Jordan and the Sea was less than 250,000 - in an area that today supports ten million people, Israelis and Palestinians.

The resettlement of the sparsely populated Holy Land by the descendants of its ancient inhabitants, however, did not take place solely in the modern era. Throughout Jewish history, waves of returnees came back to the sacred soil of their ancestors. In the 8th and 9th centuries, A.D., Jewish immigrants re-established major communities in Jerusalem and Tiberias; by the 11th Century, they had built new communities in Jaffa, Ashkelon, Caesarea and Rafah. In the 16th Century, more Jewish immigrants developed the famous center of mysticism in Safed and beginning in the 1700's religious scholars and pilgrims intensely repopulated Jerusalem.

The Jewish connection to Israel, in other words, remained impassioned and unbroken for some three thousand years, while the British connection with North American began only in 1607 (with Jamestown) and 1620 (with the Pilgrims at Plymouth). No European settlers to the New World claimed an ancient connection to the land they discovered, developed, and gradually populated. Moreover, the Native Americans who preceded them came to the Western Hemisphere across the land bridge from Asia at the very latest some 13,000 years before the White Men arrived, while the Arabs appeared in Israel for the first time in the 7th Century.

If opponents of the modern Jewish State argue that Israelis have no meaningful claim on the land they occupy then on what basis do today's Americans have a stake in the vast continent once inhabited by millions of members of hundreds of Indian tribes?

Moreover, the Jewish title to the land of Israel received long-standing recognition from international organizations that didn't even exist at the time of American independence. On July 24, 1922, the 52 governments of the League of Nations formally recognized and endorsed the British Balfour Declaration calling for "reconstituting….a national home for the Jewish people" in the land with which that people enjoyed "historical connections." Twenty-five years later, the United Nations (successor body to the League of Nations) validated this title with the partition plan, dividing the British Mandate in the area into two states�-one Jewish, one Arab. The Arab leadership violently rejected that solution, but after Israel's bloody war for Independence the UN recognized Israel as a full member state in 1949.

Unlike Israel, the United States won no international recognition prior to the commencement of our own war for Independence; we only won that acknowledgment after the courage and sacrifice of the patriots who waged our Revolutionary struggle. In the end, an estimated 25,000 Americans died in the war�-nearly 1% of the Colonial population at the time. In a haunting similarity, Israel lost 6,373 fighters in its War of Independence�-nearly 1% of the Jewish population of nation at the time. In the case of the American struggle, final victory only became possible through the direct intervention of France, and the participation (at the climactic battle of Yorktown) of a French fleet and army of some 20,000. In the case of Israel, foreign assistance remained strictly limited (the US imposed an arms embargo on Israel and the rest of the Middle East in 1947) and no foreign armies of any kind ever fought alongside the beleaguered Israelis.

In other words, the founders of the modern Jewish State built their nation on the same basis as the founders of the United States�-with generations of building, toil, business development, land reclamation, settlement, and sacrifice in battle. Tel Aviv - by far the largest city in today's Israel, and the nation's financial center- was founded in 1909 and built from nothing, mostly on reclaimed sand dunes. In Jerusalem, Israel's capital and second largest city, some two-thirds of the population lives in new neighborhoods built on empty land after Jewish immigrants began moving outside the Old City walls in the nineteenth century. Apparently, those who make the idiotic (but occasionally well-meaning) suggestion that the Jews of Israel should save the world some trouble and relocate in Florida, or Australia, or the moon, remain unaware of this history. The idea that literally millions of people would uproot their homes -- along with their businesses, parks, universities, museums, freeways and so forth - makes no more sense than expecting residents of New York or Los Angeles to dismantle and abandon the cities that they (and their ancestors) built.

Of course, those who suggest that Israelis should simply move their country somewhere else don't always mean well�-as evidenced by Iran's demented president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. His mad obsession with transplanting all Jews from the Middle East to Europe (he recently wrote a public letter to the Chancellor of Germany with that plan in mind) reflects one of the most pernicious big lies of Islamist propaganda: the contention that Israel was an alien intrusion "imposed" on the Palestinian people to compensate Jews for the Holocaust (which may never have happened anyway). Of course, this argument ignores the fact that the League of Nations endorsed the idea of a Jewish State in 1922�-11 years before Hitler even came to power! It also provides no explanation for the fact that the British Empire, which supposedly sponsored Israel as a refuge for allegedly persecuted Jews, actually blocked and outlawed settlement in the Middle East of all Jewish refugees from Nazi persecution both during the Holocaust years, and in the period immediately following the war. Most important of all, more than 700,000 Jews arrived in Israel as refugees from Islamic countries of North Africa and the Middle East and outnumbered all immigrants fleeing Hitlerism by a ratio of more than two to one. Ironically, one of these "Oriental Jews" who fled to the Jewish State from the Near East is the current President of Israel, Moshe Katzav�-who was born in Ahmadinejad's Iran, not Germany or Poland. Just as the population of the United States is made up of people whose forebears came from every corner of the globe�-from Africa and Asia and Latin America as well as Europe�-so too Israel has been populated by immigrants of all imaginable shades of skin color, from more than 80 nations (including a major recent influx from Ethiopia) on six continents. In neither case does the slogan "Go Back to Europe Where You Came From" make even the most superficial sort of sense.

For those who instinctively resist any comparison of Israel's "right to exist" with that of the United States, the crucial difference must be one of longevity: America has now enjoyed 230 years of prosperous independence, while Israel has yet to reach its sixtieth birthday. Yet other nations (Slovakia? Turkmenistan? Namibia?) have come into being far more recently than Israel, without endless public challenges to their legitimacy. Montenegro, for instance, just joined the family of nations a few months ago�-despite the fact that more that 45% of the citizens of the new country voted against its independence.

So if the long-standing, successful functioning of the American Republic provides the main basis for greater acceptance of our national existence, it might be more useful to analogize Israel today and the United States some 60 years after our own beginnings -say, in the year 1836, at the height of the Jacksonian Era, when the admiring French visitor Alexis de Tocqueville toured the young Republic in eloquent amazement. Had America earned a "right to exist" by 1836? Countless Indian wars to secure the lands of the Great Plains and the West still lay in our nation's future, as did a spectacularly successful war against Mexico which brought about a vast expansion of American territory (into Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, California and more)--- sort of the U.S. equivalent of Israel's Six Day War of 1967.

Except for the fact that Israel has already given back most of the land it gained in that conflict - returning all of Sinai and Gaza to Arab adversaries, with the current Israeli government committed to still further (and very significant) concessions in the West Bank. These compromises (and potential compromises) reflect a fact that nearly all Jews understand, but that most Americans want to deny: that history is frequently, even generally, unfair. Whatever Israel's claims to legitimacy - no matter how ancient the connection with the land, or how definitive the recognition by international law and putative world governments - the nation exists only because of the ability and willingness of its people (past, present and future) to defend it against ruthless enemies. By the same token, it might be pleasant to assume that America remains secure and safe because a grateful world appreciates what our nation has done to introduce the concept of liberty to peoples around the world, or to save humanity from Hitlerism, Stalinism and now, Islamo-Nazism. But with unreasoning, fanatical anti-Americanism on the rise nearly everywhere, more citizens have come to realize that we survive on the same basis Israel survives: through determination, through strength of character and (not least) through military power.

Like Israel, the United States isn't a nation that grew up organically in one small corner of the earth, combining people who already spoke the same language and looked the same and shared common cultures. Both nations drew a dazzling array of dreamers and visionaries and crazies from around the world who made the choice to embrace the values and plans of the pioneers ("Halutzim," in Hebrew). Of course, these national origins (involving acts of will, rather than accidents of birth) mean that Israel and America can't ever be as perfect, and blameless, and pure in our turbulent histories as, say, our old world counterparts like France, say, or Spain, or Belgium. But as long as people in Tulsa and Tel Aviv, Jefferson City and Jerusalem, remain ready to sacrifice and even die for the still stirring visions of the founders, the two dynamic Republics will continue to exist - regardless of the world's acceptance of their "right" to do so.
0 Replies
 
freedom4free
 
  0  
Reply Wed 26 Jul, 2006 12:31 pm
A Much Greater Prize
A Much Greater Prize

Mike James in Frankfurt, Germany - July 26, 2006


The face of a Zionist Jewish girl, ably captured by a passing Reuters cameraman, radiates wondrous joy as she writes her name, "with love", on a missile of death. Moments later, the object of her erotic fascination smashes and shatters the bodies of two Lebanese toddlers near a playschool, whose only crime was not belonging to the Synagogue of Satan. The missiles were made in "Christian" America and were delivered by "Christian" American hardware.


The outlaw state of Israel, rapaciously conceived in the blood of native Palestinians and in mocking disobedience to God's biblical prohibition on a Jewish homeland, continues to disfigure and distort this fallen creation, filling the world with a vile and cankering stench of death and a darkness so pernicious that it blackens the fairest of hearts. Yet not one nation has rallied to the defence of Lebanon, neither Arab nor European, neither Asian nor Pan-American. Oh, I heard the cynically nuanced calls for restraint and saw the scented garlands heaped on high by the scabrous, money-obsessed, mentally ill prostitutes that have the barefaced effrontery to call themselves national leaders.

It is taken as said that American Congressmen and Senators, British Members of Parliament, Germany's elected representatives and the parasitic vermin that crawl steaming from the dung-heap of the European Soviet's nomenklatura hold their richly lubricated anal passages wide-open at all hours for every passing Zionist huckster. It is no stretch to say that the mouthpieces of this loathsome New World Order, massively subsidised by the Jewish money power and boasting among their ranks Fabian Marxist and liberal filth indentured to the BBC, The Guardian, The Observer and The New York Times, are also only too eager to suck and swallow until they are kicked spitting and choking back into their holes.

But what stirs me the most in my rage is the deafening sound of silence on the part of the British and American people, because it was the Anglo-Saxon, Germanic, Celtic and Gaelic tribes that God far-sightedly blessed through Father Abraham, making of them the "people of the promise", more numerous than the stars and predestined to take legal stewardship of his earthly creation for all eternity. Yet true Israel, the Israel of George Washington, William Shakespeare, John Wesley, Oliver Cromwell, Thomas Hardy, William Wallace, Thomas Jefferson and Mark Twain, has grown fat in Egypt and has all but surrendered to sloth and indifference, hardly perceiving the distant crack of Pharaoh's whip and the faintly whispered rumours of slavery close at hand.

The British and American people have had over three years to apprehend the war criminals Tony Blair and George Bush and punish them in accordance with God's perfect laws handed down to us by Moses and sanctioned by the Geneva Convention. Three hundred million British and American adults break the law every day by failing to arrest and execute these evil men in accordance with humane international laws that have the consent of God. Yet these monsters still live, breathe, laugh, eat and defecate. Their hearts have not been mortally stilled and their mouths have not been stopped to bring about a cessation of their wicked lies and murderous schemes.

While evil Jewish Zionists, who ritually urinate on Christian Bibles and the Cross of Calvary as part of their IDF "political training", shatter the limbs of Palestinian babies and rip the life out of Lebanese children as they cavort in a world of joy and innocence, millions of junk-addicted Britons and Americans are either given over to the hypnotising perversions of television or the equally mesmerising abominations of apostate Christianity, both systemics of which are mutually complementary, one giving image to the other, the Beast.

How deceived my people have become; how they bespeak good of evil and evil of good. And though you may protest, I discern you protest too much; for every nation is apportioned the government it deserves, and if your government be evil, it is because you, in your cowardice, are evil. If your nation has become a cesspit, a dumping ground for every foul creature from every corner of the earth and your house has become a Babel of many tongues, a place of fear and confusion and violence and disease, it is because you failed to challenge the lies of the hatemongering multiculturalist Zionist entity, preferring instead not to bite the Ashkenazi Jewish hand that feeds you and pulls your politically-correct chain.

Or you bought into the malicious deception sold to you by your pastor, who knowingly chose not to tell you about the difference between Jew and Judean, Sephardim and Ashkenazim, Kennite and Edomite. You actually believe that the Jews of our age are genetically related to the Judeans of Christ's ministry in the flesh, and that they in turn were of pure Hebrew stock. You may never have heard of the Greek translation of the Septuagint, even though it was from these texts that Jesus quoted and not the deliberately skewed literature written by Jews more in love with Lucifer's pornographic Talmud than with the Word of God. You swear by the Judaized King James Bible, despite its 20,000 translation errors, because some television evangelist with white teeth and a whoring luxury wife told you to read it in conjunction with the fraudulent Jewish-financed Scofield Reader, or burn in hell.

You're Rapture-ready and you've got the DVD to prove it. You're a Promise Keeper, a soldier in Joel's Army; it's Armageddon time and a cheque is in the post to Israel. But listen to my words of warning, Brother Israelite, and listen very carefully. Each and every Christian, so-called, who assists in any shape, form or fashion the Zionist Ashkenazim or the birthright-stealing Edomites who call themselves Judeans but are not, and who therefore drunkenly partakes in drinking the blood of Lebanese, Palestinian and Iraqi babies and children, all the while singing the praises of evil, Antichrist Israel, will have his or her name unceremoniously removed from the Book of Life without appeal.

Cross your heart and hope to die you may, but if you follow viciously reprobate and demonically possessed men such as John Hagee, Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Tim LaHaye and Hal Lindsey, all of whom preach the Zionist Jewish doctrine of violence, greed, deception and theft -- a doctrine written in the blood of Ishmael's children by the pen of Satan -- you are following them down the broad, dominionist path to destruction and Yahweh will shed not one tear for your soul, because he never knew you.

Enabling in any way, morally or financially, the premeditated murder of innocent Arab children in pursuit of profit, geopolitical gain and a mischievously carnal interpretation of sacred and unknowable eschatology is blasphemy against the Spirit of God, and this will not be forgiven, neither in this world nor in the next.

Now is the time for all men and women of good virtue, Americans, Canadians, Englishmen, Australians, Scots, Welsh, New Zealanders, Irish and others of an ethnic European heritage to hear the voice of their God, who is Christ Jesus, and who gave his life on the cross to free you from the curse of Satan's people. Now is the time appointed unto you to rally to the standard, unfurl the flag and tilt your sword at the lawless and barbaric New World Order.

Let none say that his life of comfort and easy pleasures is so precious that he is not prepared to lose it for a much greater prize. For I tell you this, though I be ageing and ailing terribly in health, and yet that I am also the least among you and in the eyes of God a burden of disappointment and a failure of spirit and promise, I, Michael James, shall fight with you, and I shall fight to the death.

From the foothills of the Taunus in my adopted, beloved German homeland to the vast open plains of America the Beautiful, from the sacred shores of Galloway and Connacht to the Great Divide of the Antipodes, let all free men and women of True Israel who remember their God and mourn their ancestry cry out in the name of Our Lord Jesus Christ:

"I shall not go down on bended knee and hand my children over to the Zionist money power. I shall no longer toil on this plantation or pay tribute to the usurious Prince of this World and his demonic puppet system of parliaments and debating chambers, trading blocs and treasonous committees. I shall not give heed to those who preach a false gospel and articulate a Satanic, Antichrist dominion in my name. I shall neither bless nor assist those who murder the children of another kin, for though the ways of such children are different to mine, God has ordained it so, each nation being judged separately, each race unto its own. I shall never kiss the whip of my tormentors, for I am not a slave; nor shall I sell them my soul for a potter's field of worldly gain. I shall make of these murderers and liars mine enemy, and though all around me are fallen in battle, my sword will find no resting place until I have destroyed the New World Order."

"For this is my destiny and the destiny of My People, written in the stars long before I was born."


Continued...


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0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  0  
Reply Wed 26 Jul, 2006 12:37 pm
You shouldn't fault those girls for neglecting to smear the 155 shells with bacon grease, they don't appear more than about ten years old.


http://www.crusaderammunition.com
0 Replies
 
 

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