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Is abortion really wrong?

 
 
Eorl
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Sep, 2006 11:33 pm
...hence my use of the word "mostly".

Deny that "most" anti-choicers are religious people if you can.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Sep, 2006 12:20 am
Eorl wrote:
...hence my use of the word "mostly".

Deny that "most" anti-choicers are religious people if you can.


The fact is that "most" people are religious people.

So, most pro-lifers are religious people.

Also, most pro-abortion people are religious people.

Also, most political conservatives are religious people.

Also, most political liberals are religious people.

So what?

One could just as easily say that most pro-abortion people use their notions of right and wrong (which are based in their religion for the most part) to support their pro-abortion view.

My objection has more to do with your phrase

Quote:
The whole anti-choice reasoning


as if everybody who is pro-life holds that view for the same reasons. They don't.

The pro-life view is certainly not dependent on religious reasons for support, although there are many.

Medical evidence (DNA) is clear that the unborn is a genetically distinct individual from the moment of conception. He/she does not have the same DNA pattern as his/her mother, hence the unborn is not a 'part of the mother's body'.

This is but one of the reasons why American Academy of Family Physicians (AAFP) considers the unborn a separate patient. Not because they are a 'religious organization'. (Far from it actually.) They are doctors.

Medical evidence clearly shows that the unborn has a heart pumping his/her OWN blood through it's OWN body before the end of the 4th week. That's before a large percentage of women even know they are pregnant.

The majority of abortions take place after the heart is beating, and often after there are brainwaves.

What has this to do with religion?
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Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Sep, 2006 06:25 am
Some find it easier to blame religion for everything. That way, they don't have to present "real" evidence because they don't have any. You may also notice that answers to people who are up front about their religion are different than to those who do not profess or admit to such things.

It is easier for those without religion to justify what most know is wrong.
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Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Sep, 2006 06:44 am
Intrepid, it is just as easy for those with religion to justify what most know is wrong. Like slavery for example. Those with religion (not all with religion, mind you) used their religious text to justify it, to justify discrimination against blacks, to justify discrimination against gays, to justify jihads, to justify not allowing women to get into offices of higher power.
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Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Sep, 2006 07:50 am
Wolf_ODonnell wrote:
Intrepid, it is just as easy for those with religion to justify what most know is wrong. Like slavery for example. Those with religion (not all with religion, mind you) used their religious text to justify it, to justify discrimination against blacks, to justify discrimination against gays, to justify jihads, to justify not allowing women to get into offices of higher power.


Perhaps I should refrain from posting from a religious point of view. Reason being that I, personally, do not subscribe to using my religion to justify those things of which you speak.

I don't think religion should be used as either a crutch or an excuse.

As far as abortion goes, I know that I would feel the same way regardless of my religion, or lack thereof.
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Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Sep, 2006 08:19 am
Intrepid wrote:
Wolf_ODonnell wrote:
Intrepid, it is just as easy for those with religion to justify what most know is wrong. Like slavery for example. Those with religion (not all with religion, mind you) used their religious text to justify it, to justify discrimination against blacks, to justify discrimination against gays, to justify jihads, to justify not allowing women to get into offices of higher power.


Perhaps I should refrain from posting from a religious point of view. Reason being that I, personally, do not subscribe to using my religion to justify those things of which you speak.

I don't think religion should be used as either a crutch or an excuse.

As far as abortion goes, I know that I would feel the same way regardless of my religion, or lack thereof.


You may post from a religious point of view, all you want. All I was saying was that you were making an overgeneralisation and that religious people can be equally as guilty.
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Scott777ab
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Sep, 2006 05:50 pm
ABORTION IS MURDER.
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xingu
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Sep, 2006 07:32 pm
What Scott believes in.

http://z.about.com/d/atheism/1/7/X/z/2/HusbandUterus-e.jpg
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real life
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Sep, 2006 08:41 am
xingu wrote:
What Scott believes in.

(pic removed to save space)





Perhaps you should start a thread on birth control, if that interests you.

Your pic offers no cogent point regarding abortion.
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real life
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Sep, 2006 11:37 pm
Today's abortionists, keeping it safe, legal and rare? Well, legal anyway.

from http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/news/1157791518303420.xml&coll=2

Quote:
Abortion center ordered to close
East Side clinic cited with violations

Saturday, September 09, 2006
Regina McEnery
Plain Dealer Reporter

An East Side abortion clinic will be forced to close this month after state regulators uncovered more than a dozen health code violations, prompting officials to reject the center's request for a new license.

In a lengthy compliance report issued in June, the Ohio Department of Health cited the Center for Women's Health in Cleveland for failing to have patient transfer agreements with hospitals in case of emergency, among other violations. In what seemed to be the most serious infraction, the clinic had difficulty finding a hospital willing to admit a patient who encountered complications during her second-trimester abortion.

The center demonstrated lapses in routine care, the state said. ................
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Scott777ab
 
  1  
Reply Sat 9 Sep, 2006 11:59 pm
xingu wrote:
What Scott believes in.

http://z.about.com/d/atheism/1/7/X/z/2/HusbandUterus-e.jpg


LOL ROFLMAO.
That is so darn funny.
Controlling the UTERUS.
That is such a libearl bunch of CIRCLE TALK if i have ever heard of it.
ITs not about controlling or telling what a lady may or may not DO TO HER BODY!.
But a BABY IS NOT HER BODY!
It is its OWN BODY EVEN WHEN IT IS JUST ONE CELL IT IS ITS OWN.
AND NO ONE HAS THE RIGHT TO TAKE ANOTHER'S LIFE FROM THEM.

POINT IS>
ABORTION IS MURDER!
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Sep, 2006 05:49 am
Scott has a right to believe as he does, so long as he keeps his hands off of the women who disagree with him. Abortion is not murder.
0 Replies
 
Scott777ab
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Sep, 2006 08:52 am
edgarblythe wrote:
Scott has a right to believe as he does, so long as he keeps his hands off of the women who disagree with him. Abortion is not murder.


ABORTION IS MURDER.

Those who commit Abortion are full of their own selfs instead of the well fare of THE CHILD that they should carrry to term.

To those who commit abortion it don't matter wether or not THAT CHILD would have wanted to be born or not.

Those who support abortion are also so full of themselves that they are unable to see that they are supporting a dark and evil force of hate and self centeredness.

And on top of all that if I was ever to talk to someone who was thinking about having abortion here is what I would say do.

I would get down on my knees and place my hand on her stomach and look up into her eyes.
Inside of you is life, I dont know if this was accident, on purpose, or rape. But to deny this life the chance to live is just so UGH.
Just think if your mother had done so to you (quickpause). Yes you would not have had to go through all the hard (say Harsh) times but just think of the loves (draw this out )you have had.
(pause)
The friends (draw this out ) you have had.
(pause)
They places (draw this out ) you have had.
(pause)
Do you really wish to deny (say deny slow) this life within you the right ( say right Slow ) to see and feel such things?

That is what I would say and do if I was ever confronted with a woman with child who was thinking of abortion.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Sep, 2006 09:54 am
What I don't understand about your thinking, Scott, is that here you say
Scott777 wrote:
ENERGY only transforms right from one state into another.
(I assume you are saying the life is transformed.)

Would not the life also be transformed if the mother terminated pregnancy? Then, wouldn't the child be better off?
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Sep, 2006 12:26 pm
As I said, Scott has a right to be wrong.
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Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Sep, 2006 12:51 pm
....and, every baby has a right to life.
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echi
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Sep, 2006 01:06 pm
Scott777ab wrote:
That is what I would say and do if I was ever confronted with a woman with child who was thinking of abortion.

Wear a cup.
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Doktor S
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Sep, 2006 02:33 pm
What scott and others fail to understand is that 'murder' is a completely arbitrary term. Abortion is only 'murder' in those places in which it is legally designated as such.
It's shades of grey. If you prefer black and white, as scott and others like him seem to, one might wonder why capital punishment, war, and shootings by police wouldn't also be considered murder..which of course they seldom are.
The odor in the air, you smell it?
It's hypocrisy.
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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Sep, 2006 02:35 pm
A baby has a right to life. An insufficiently developed fetus has no rights.
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Chaplin
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Sep, 2006 02:45 pm
Doktor S, The hypocrisy is so evident when these folks wish to impose their religious beliefs to all of society when they completely ignore the living and killings going on - some of which you identified.

They continue to argue for a fetus that's inside a private woman/girl - to which they wish to impose their religious beliefs, and ignore all the people already living and breathing. they are so confused, they can't keep their ethics, logic and common sense straight! If they are "really" concerned about life, there are plenty of issues of the living they can expend their efforts - such as the homeless and starving. "Right to life" is an oxymoron if they ignore the living.
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