Is abortion really wrong?

Scott, do you think you're going to have any impact on how anyone feels about abortion by yelling posterboard slogans? You have an opinion, you've stated it, and everyone knows what it is. Do you just like see yourself in CAPS, or do you have something to say?

I didn't say it was irrelevant, I said I wouldn't have disagreed if someone said it was irrelevant. But I wouldn't have agreed, either. I just wouldn't have said anything. That's the position I normally take when I have nothing to add to a discussion. Given your most recent posts, I suggest you might want to try that sometime.

I've said my say to you, Scott. Have a nice life.

Scott, what do you define as murder?

The "logic" of scott's statement should become evident by his/her answer.

hi EB,

You seem to place some significance on 'viability'.

Are you suggesting abortion should not be allowed after viability?

If not, what is the point of bringing up the concept of 'viability'?

If so, when EXACTLY is viability?

glitterbag, you say your husband was upset when you miscarried. Why? Do you think he had a right to be?

Sorry Eorl, my husband is a grown man and as such is entitled to his opinion. What kind of a creep are you, did you think he would have been happy???? We were looking forward and the three of us were already picking out names for the next family member. Now if you need more personal information send me your phone number and my husband would be happy to talk to you. Actually he wouldn't, there is no on this green earth that he will discuss his feelings of loss with the little boys here trying to control what happens with women's bodies.

Did you honestly think you were fooling anybody with the bogus "Do you think he had a right to be?" I didn't have an abortion you moron, we lost a baby that was not viable that we didn't want to loose. Please don't address me again, you make me angry and I refuse to spend anymore time humoring your idea of crafty intellect. I am no longer in the business of mentoring dullards.

The law, the medical profession, are in charge of a viability standard. I am not a specialist to interfere.

Cut Eorl some slack, glitter. Perhaps he was simply trying to make the point that, in the minds of so many, an unborn baby is a distinct person, worthy of love and, should it not come to term, being grieved.

I sense a disparity between your feelings for your loss and your attempt to make sense of it. This may or may not mean anything now, but God has promised a time in which . . ."he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore." (Revelation 21:4)

glitterbag, I meant no offense. I'm certainly not attacking you in the way you think I am.

I was trying to demonstrate that there is a discrepancy between your "talk to me when you grow a uterus" stance and the fact that you find it understandable that your husband was upset when you miscarried.

The point is: if you (or any woman) wanted an abortion and your husband (or any father) would prefer you did not.....would he have a right to an opinion or not? Your stated position is that it's none of his business....but I think you probably can see that has a real stake in your pregnancy and it's potential results.

I'm one of the hardest campaigners here in support of the women's right to choose....but I find your hardline "no opinions from men" to be less than helpful, if not totally alienating.

OK, so then if abortion is made illegal, I suppose you'll back away from any meaningful discussion, just as you are doing now.

You won't want to interfere with the 'experts' making the law then either, right?

After all, ordinary citizens should just leave most things to the experts, shouldn't they?

I'm not backing away from meaningful discussion. If they made abortion illegal, it would be against the knowledge of the doctors and a backtrack of what is now the law. I would push to restore the constitutional right of a woman to decide.

You boys are just not getting it. Neither you nor anyone else are able to dictate under what situation women will be forced to carry a child to term.
If we get to that point when men can force women to conceive then I think it would only be fair for the women in their lives to determine how long the men can carry around a loaded gun in their pants. I've seen men get all teary over taking the male cat to be neutered. You are too worried about all the male equipment and care little about what happens to the woman's body as long as she carries to term. Both you and the guy with the lighting bolt as a avatar need to strap on some big boy panties and toughen up a little. I'm out, I can't sit and discuss in the year 2006 what men want or demand of women. Why don't you boys decide how men can contribute to the care and feeding of all the fatherless children currently in this country. No adoption, don't treat these unplanned pregnancies as a bonanza for people wanting to adopt, keep the children with their mothers and support the women heading these single parent households. I'll be a lot more sympathetic about your desires when I see some actual progress made toward taking care of the children who have already been born.

While you are at it, take a look at the way doting parents are caring for their children. Too many parents have no interest in teaching manners, respectful behaviour or anything else that might nick tender egos.

I am astounded that you think this was rough. Boys, what happened here was I was addressing two much younger men (I am willing to bet) and like an old bitch taking care of the puppies, I have little patience dealing with over-reaching behaviour. Life is complex my boys, if you don't understand the fact that I won't ban abortion but in a loving relationship, we mourned the loss of a 8-12 week old fetus AND on top of that, you are looking for linear thinking.......I think my head just might explode. You are on notice, I have spare patience for you, and I've already mentioned I no longer have to deal with mentoring. I've already raised up enough children, young employees and I'm not in the mood to do it with strangers.

Do I think he had the "right", you are so lucky you didn't say that to my face. Your remarks are as graceless as my Dad's next door neighbor who was the first one to my Dad's wake after the family arrived sporting a Long & Foster lapel pin. Don't bother to grow a uterus, it's a big responsibility.

What am I not getting glitterbag? I'll fight long and hard to defend a woman's right to choose an abortion. I suspect we are in complete agreement in that regard.

What I don't understand is why having a penis disqualifies my opinion on the moral issues of abortion. Do you apply the same logic to women who are unable to conceive?

Surely you can see that a woman does not have the right to knock a six-week-old child on the head. Who denies her that right? Society in general, regardless of sex. The same applies to the abortion debate.

The "pro-life" camp claims a "child" exists at conception, and therefore deserves the same protection as six-week-old or a six-year-old....., which makes complete sense if they are correct about a foetus being a complete person due full human rights....but they are not. This is where I see the real issue, and while I may (or may not) be younger and less female than you, it is possible you could be wrong about what the real issue is here.

As for being insensitive, you brought your personal story of miscarriage into a debate about abortion. Did you think that means you "win" because nobody will dare to call you on it?

I think your husband has EVERY right to be upset at your miscarriage....but I think your other position (that he has NO SAY AT ALL about whether you choose to have abortion) is at odds with that. I'm trying to understand how you justify these seemingly contrasting positions.

I have stated here before that if my wife told me she was having an abortion, I would do my best to talk her out of it, and I would feel absolutely justified in trying....BUT if she insisted, I would support her decision and help her through it, no matter how painful for me, because ultimately, it is her body.... (she is 6 months pregnant right now, with what we hope will be our second child)

(btw, no idea who Long & Foster are...perhaps it's a local thing, I'm not American.)

For some reason, you are getting awfully defensive. I am NOT saying that it is the fault of the woman. Both parties must take responsibility. I am saying that since it is the woman, not the man, who has the potential to become pregnant it is the woman who must be the one to say no.

When it comes to rape, you would probably yell hard and long that it is the woman's right to say no. I think your plan is actually rather silly. It is not the erection that causes pregnancy....it is the ejaculation. Just as it is not guns that kill....it is the bullets.

Where does the constitution speak of a right to abortion?

The Supreme Court has allowed it in the name of the Constitution. But, if they had said it should be outlawed, they would have been wrong. Ultimately, only a woman has a right to make that personal a decision.

So do you support abortion throughout the pregnancy, up to the moment of birth, regardless of medical evidence of viability?

You can't win at this by twisting my meanings about. Nowhere did I say something so stupid as "up to the moment of birth," or even hint at that. I don't know of anybody who advocates that.

Could you quote that passage in the Constitution please?